Saga Lines from the Saga that mirror each other

FEELINGS

You could almost tell the story of the Saga through the lines containing "feelings"

and I dont mean "I have a bad feeling about this"

QUI-GON : The situation here is not what it seems. There is something else
behind all this, Your Highness. There is no logic in the Federation's move
here. My feelings tell me they will destroy you.

I suppose its no surprise Qui Gon is the first Jedi we hear listen to his feelings.

SHMI : You can't stop change any more than you can stop the suns from
setting. Listen to your feelings; Annie, you know what's right.

Anakin's feelings at leaving his mother may be important later...

MACE WINDU : Be mindful of your feelings...

Mace Windu thinks feelings are something that should be controlled, that show a weakness (?)

ANAKIN: But you are asking me to be rational. That is something I know I cannot do. I wish I could wish my feelings away... but I can't.

Anakin however cannot control his feelings

OBI-WAN: Don't let your personal feelings get in the way. We've got a job to do.

OBI-WAN: Yes, but use your feelings, Anakin. Something is out of place.

Obi-Wan can't make his mind up whether Anakin should restrict his feelings or use them

PALPATINE: Anakin, search your feelings. You know, don't you?

ANAKIN: I wish I knew. More and more I get the feeling that I am being excluded from the Council. I know there are things about the Force that they are not telling me.

Palpatine definitely thinks Anakin should use his feelings...

YODA: Use your feelings, Obi-Wan, and find him, you will.

Deep down Yoda knows that Obi Wan knows about Anakin and Padme. Obi Wan did have feelings for Anakin but they were expressed too late to save him.

BEN: Stretch out with your feelings.

In the OT Kenobi promotes using feelings to Luke.

VADER: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Anakin still believes in using feelings - however his nfeelings have led him to a dark place.

BEN: Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit.But they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Kenobi is still confused. Feelings are a credit to Luke but they could lead to the darkside.

EMPEROR: Strange, that I have not. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader.

Are Anakin's feelings leading him back to the light?

LEIA: Just...images, really. Feelings.

Leia has the Force. She just doesn't know it yet.

LUKE: Search your feelings, father. You can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.

EMPEROR: Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you.

VADER: Give yourself to the dark side. It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for...Sister! So...you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the darkside, then perhaps she will.

Luke tries to use Anakin's feelings to convert him back to the good side.
The Emporer and Anakin try and use Luke's feelings to convert him to the dark side.

 

Nice one. I didn't realise how reocurring that theme was.

I thought of a couple more.

ANAKIN (to Padme): "You're trembling."
HAN SOLO (to Leia): "You're trembling."

----------------------------------------

ROTS-
OBI-WAN: "He is like my brother. I cannot do it"
ROTJ-
LUKE: "I can't kill my own father."

----------------------------------------

Knd of an obvious one-

AOTC-
ANAKIN: "No I'm taking him now!"
ROTS-
ANAKIN: "I say patience."
ESB-
OBI-WAN (about Luke): "He will learn patience."

----------------------------------------

I may be reaching with this one...

ESB-
(As Luke nears death in the snow)
HAN SOLO: "Don't do this Luke."
ROTS-
(As Anakin is consumed by Vader)
PADME: "You're a good person. Don't do this!"

Possibly?

 

One more...

ANAKIN: "I know there are things about the force that they're not telling me."

I'm not gonna write this all out, but take any teachings from Obi-Wan in ANH, Yoda in ESB, and Qui-Gon in TPM, and it becomes apparent that Anakin never received the training Luke did. This really works with the theme that the Jedi learn from their mistakes in the PT and train Luke with a wisdom Anakin only thinks he is getting from Sidious.

 

Please write it out
That's a really good idea

 

I'll give it a shot but it may take a few days. I'm watching TPM at the moment, so I'll have some other stuff to post later. What did you think about the "Don't do this" lines? I may be over-anylising but still

 

Oops I mispelled analysing on my last post. Also I misquoted Yoda saying "I sense much fear" earlier. Sorry if any of these have already been posted.


TPM-
PADME: "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."
ROTS-
SIDIOUS: "If they are not all destroyed it will be civil war without end."

ANH- "Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons, you can't possibly..."

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TPM-
QUI-GON: "This is not a good idea."
ROTS-
ANAKIN: "I agree. Bad idea."

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TPM-
QUI-GON: "Maybe I killed a Jedi and took it from him."
ANAKIN: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi."

ROTS-
GRIEVOUS: "Army or not, you must realise you are doomed."
OBI-WAN: "Oh I don't think so."

Both about Jedi being destroyed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
ANAKIN: "It wasn't my fault, really!"

ESB-
HAN SOLO: "It's not my fault!"

LANDO: "It's not my fault!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
YODA: "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
ROTS-
ANAKIN: "I hate you!"

 

There is no such thing as over analysis in my book ha

Maybe that whilst Han was imploring Luke not to physically die, Padme was imploring Anakin not to spiritually die?

 

Haha we have that in common. Yeah that was basically what I was thinking. It's interesting, whether intended or not.

A few more...

TPM-
PANAKA: They've probably spotted us.
ESB-
VADER: The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel
came out of light-speed too close to the system.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
QUI-GON: We'll handle this. (about Maul)
AOTC-
OBI-WAN: Anakin and I can handle this. (About Dooku)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
ANAKIN: It's not fair!
ANH-
Luke: It just isn't fair. Oh, Biggs is right. I'm never gonna get out
of here!

Both about being held back. They're the same age too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may disagree about comparing Mace to Qui-Gon but...

TPM-
QUI-GON: I can only protect you. I can't fight a war for you.
AOTC-
MACE WINDU: We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers.
ANH-
OBI-WAN: An elegant weapon for a more civilized time. For over a thousand
generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice
in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
NUTE: This is getting out of hand... now there are two of them.
RUNE: We should not have made this bargain.
ROTS-
NUTE: Lord Sidious promised us peace. We only want to... Aaah!

 

Nice ones

 

ROTS-
GRIEVOUS: You fool!

ROTJ-
PALPATINE: Young fool... Only now, at the end, do you understand.

JESUS (Matthew 5:22) - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

Just watched Episode 2. I wrote down a bunch of these.

AOTC-
(When Shmi is still alive)
CLIEG: "Your mother is dead son. Accept it."
ROTS-
(about Padme)
VADER: "She was alive! I felt it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

PADME: "Perhaps with merely your presence, the mysteries
surrounding this threat will be revealed."

As opposed to Sidious and the darkside's presence clouding their vision.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
"A communications disruption can only mean one thing. Invasion."
AOTC-
"Our communications have been jammed."

The Jedi have become the invaders.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
OBI-WAN: "Blast, this is why I hate flying."
ROTS-
OBI-WAN: "No, no... nothing too fancy."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
ANAKIN: "They live on the Moons of Iego I think."
AOTC-
ANAKIN: "This is a shortcut... I think."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
SHMI: "Be safe."
ANAKIN: "I will mom. I promise."
AOTC-
CAPTAIN TYPHO: "Be safe, M'Lady."
AOTC-
ANAKIN: "I'm here, mom. You're safe."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
"No droids. Get outta here."
ANH-
"We don't serve their kind here."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
PADME: "I will not give into this."
ANH-
VADER: "Her resistance to the mind probe is considerable."
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AOTC-
JANGO: "We'll move into the asteroid field."
ESB-
LEIA: "What are you doing? You're not actually going into an asteroid field?"

Also there is an inversion as Obi-Wan tracks Jango Fett whereas Boba Fett tracks the Millenium Falcon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
OBI-WAN: "You're using her as bait?"
ESB-
LANDO: "Vader has set a trap for him."
LEIA: "And we're the bait!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
ANAKIN: "Nothing is impossible Padme, listen to me."
ESB-
LUKE: "You want the impossible."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
C-3PO: "My obtuse little friend. If they had needed our help,
they would have asked for it. You obviously have a lot to learn about
human behaviour."
ESB-
C-3PO: "Sir, sir! Might I suggest..."
HAN: (to Leia) Shut him up or shut him down! (to Chewie) Check the
deflector shield!
...
HAN: "Prepare to make the jump to light-speed."
C-3PO: "But, sir!"
...
C-3PO: "Sometimes I just don't understand human behaviour."

I like that 3P0 hasn't learnt (or has forgotten due to the memory wipe) how to understand humans.

 

Wolvo, I have some ideas for the Anakin's training theme. I may need some help on the actual themes it represents, but I'll try to post it in the next few days.


In the meantime, I thought I should explain some of my last post.

--------------------------------------------------------
TPM-
SHMI: "Be safe."
ANAKIN: "I will mom. I promise."
AOTC-
ANAKIN: "I'm here, mom. You're safe."

I thought this was an interesting repetition, but I missed a major one:

VADER: Where is Padme? Is she safe? Is she alright?

Seems intended to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
PADME: "I will not give into this."
ANH-
VADER: "Her resistance to the mind probe is considerable."

Maybe not the best Padme line to demonstrate what I meant, but I was trying to give an example of Padme and Leia's strength.

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AOTC-
OBI-WAN: "You're using her as bait?"
ESB-
LANDO: "Vader has set a trap for him."
LEIA: "And we're the bait!"

I'm not implying that Anakin and Padme's idea to use her as bait is in anyway similar to Vader's trap for Luke in ESB, but thought it was kinda cool that Anakin/Vader use Padme and Leia in a similar way in the middle movie of each trilogy.

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AOTC-
JANGO: "We'll move into the asteroid field."
ESB-
LEIA: "What are you doing? You're not actually going into an asteroid field?"

Also there is an inversion as Obi-Wan tracks Jango Fett whereas Boba Fett tracks the Millenium Falcon.

There is also the fact that Obi-Wan and the Millenium Falcon both hide on a vertical surface (the asteroid and the Star destroyer). And both ships use some jettisoned parts to escape (Obi-Wan to get rid of the missile, and the Millenium Falcon using the Star destroyer's jettisoned junk to hide and escape).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ROTS
Anakin 'I won't lose you like I lost my mother'

ROTJ
Luke 'I have no memory of my mother, I never knew her'

The death of Shmi was a massive part of Anakin's journey and he never got over it. The sad irony is that for all he missed his mother it is through his direct actions that he deprives his own son of his. Anakin can't appreciate the 10 years he had with Shmi and this is contrasted with Luke who barely got one minute. However, even in that discussion with Leia we see that while Luke is unaware of it, his mother never left him and in the biggest compliment to the character who wanted people to listen or reason their way to peace, he recites her words.

 

Okay here I go. I wasn't sure how to structure this, so it's very incoherent, but try and make some sense of it.


TPM-
QUI-GON (about Obi-wan)
"He is headstrong and he has much to learn about the living Force, but he is capable.
There is little more he will learn from me."
AOTC-
"I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet."

TPM-
OBI-WAN
"I am ready to face the trials"
AOTC-
ANAKIN
"I'm ready for the trials."

Qui-Gon encourages Obi-Wan when he is ready. Anakin is also ready, but receives the
opposite statement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
KI-ADI
"The force is strong with him."
QUI-GON
"He is to be trained then?"
MACE
"No. He will not be trained."
ROTS-
SIDIOUS
"The force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become."

A contrast in the way Anakin is dealt with by the Council and by Palpatine.

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ANAKIN
Master Qui-Gon, sir, I do not wish to be a problem.
QUI-GON
You won't be, Annie....I'm not allowed to train you, so I want you to watch me and be mindful.
(Sidious also tells Maul to be mindful)
Always remember, your focus determines your reality.
(This is something Obi-Wan never taught)
Stay close to me and you will be safe.
(A metaphor? Stay on a path similar to Qui-Gon's? Also, Sidious tells Anakin "Come closer" in the opera scene.)

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OBI-WAN
"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Something passed down from Qui-Gon between ROTS and ANH.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANH-
LUKE: The Force?
BEN:
Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy
field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us.
It binds the galaxy together.

ESB-
YODA: And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a
powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy
surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...(Yoda pinches
Luke's shoulder)...not this crude matter. (a sweeping gesture) You must
feel the Force around you. (gesturing) Here, between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!

Luke's teachings from the OT Jedi are deeper than Anakin's, thus Palpatine's teachings are more appealing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUI-GON
"Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel. Don't think. Trust your instincts."

YODA
"Concentrate. Feel the force flow."

Similarity in Qui-Gon and the OT Jedi.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPM-
QUI-GON
"Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts.""

AOTC-
OBI-WAN
"Patience. Use the force. Think."

Told the opposite by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon is the mentor Anakin should have had.

ANH-
OBI-WAN
"Stretch out with your feelings."
"Luke... trust your feelings."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AOTC-
OBI-WAN
"This weapon is your life!"
ESB-
YODA
"Your weapons, you will not need them."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AOTC-
ANAKIN
"I try, Master."
ESB-
YODA
"There is no try."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESB-
YODA
"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is."
OBI-WAN
"Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!"

Not to the force, or the will of the force?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PT Jedi Stubborness- "If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist!"

The Jedi see far

 

(A metaphor? Stay on a path similar to Qui-Gon's? Also, Sidious tells Anakin "Come closer" in the opera scene.)

He also claims to have "good news" or in other words, gospel.

 

Interesting take on it. Palpatine asking the others to leave them shows this is something he will only tell Anakin.
His firm belief in his own philosophy could easily be seen as religious.

 

Good catch!!

It's also what happens during a SEDUCTION.

Guy with all the power (alpha male) tells his hangers-on and orbiters to leave so he can be alone with his target/potential mate.

And we have that "fertilization" dance literally giving light to a talk about the DARK SIDE and abilities that are (considered by some to be) "unnatural".

Also... Ian McDiarmid is gay. And Palps wants Anakin -- young, blond-haired, insecure and waifish hunk ("The Chosen One") -- for his own.

Plenty of sexual references in Star Wars, especially this episode of, yes, again... SEDUCTION.

 

Heh, I'm not sure how to respond to that. I don't disagree.

Interesting.

Yes, and I like the way it wasn't completely spelled out to us. I was wondering; what are you implying by putting 'some' in italics?

I did not know that.

Definitely. His "Gooood" and "The force is strooong with you" during the scene where Anakin pledges to him can be interpreted this way I think.

 

I knew I was picking up on something when i first saw it. Their father/son, teacher/pupil dynamic was just totally believable.

Now, I've been watching their relationship closely ever since I noticed Palpatine's first interaction with Anakin was to put his hand on his shoulder. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find one instance where Palps touches Anakin again until he's lying there on Mustafar.

 

In ROTS while on Coruscant, he puts his hand on Anakin's back.

 

oh. well, thank you.

 

Excellent posts HevyDevy

 

The flaw of power is arrogance

OBI-WAN: It's over, Anakin. I have the high ground.
ANAKIN: You underestimate my power!
OBI-WAN: Don't try it.

LUKE: You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before, and I don't believe you'll destroy me now.
VADER: You underestimate the power of the dark side. If you will not fight, then you will meet your destiny.

23 years apart Anakin says such a similar line, first to his Master and then to his Son. On both occasions his opponent has just jumped to higher ground and is effectively refusing to fight him.

Interestingly he was more sure of his own power first but later on he is only sure of the power of the dark side.



VADER: He is here...
TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so?
VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the
presence of my old master.
TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now.
VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force.
TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.

Whilst remebering the Mustafar duel referenced above Anakin uses similar words but conversely this time it is to emphasise Kenobi's power not his own.


LUKE: Nevertheless, I'm taking Captain Solo and his friends. You can either profit by this... or be destroyed! It's your choice. But I warn you not to underestimate my powers.

At this point in ROTJ we can see Luke has inherited something of his father, ominous especially coupled with his mechanical hand and black attire.

YODA: Luke...Luke...Do not...Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate, you will.

Just as Anakin respected Kenobi's power, so to Yoda respects Sidious'. We now know this is from first hand experience.

 

Which is all brought together with this interaction.

Luke: Your overconfidence is your weakness.
The Emperor: Your faith in your friends is yours.