Saga Lines from the Saga that mirror each other

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthWolvo23, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Yes, that's a good one.
    Mace also asks Anakin "are you sure" about Sidious. The Jedi and the Sith's inability to sense each other, at the end of each trilogy repsectively, leads to their downfall. I also find it funny that Yoda says "Only the dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will." They have no idea a Sith is leading the Senate, athough come the time of ROTS they think it is someone in the Chancellor's office. Mace later states "The dark side of the force surrounds the Chancellor".
  2. TiniTinyTony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 5
    TPM
    ---

    AMIDALA : (angrily) I will not defer...I have come before you to resolve
    this attack on our sovereignty now. I was not elected to watch my people
    suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee.

    ESB
    ---

    HAN: (interrupting) No time to discuss this as a committee.
    LEIA: (angry) I am not a committee!


    Amidala and Han are people of action! :)
  3. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2


    Also, although it's not a line, in ESB and AOTC, 3PO gets messed up. In AOTC, he gets his parts mixed up with a battle droid and in ESB, he's blown to bits.
  4. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Would anyone be interested in compiling an exhaustive online Saga self-reference guide? Like you know how some Bibles will have notes next to a passage referring to all related passages?
    We would find that scene after scene, everything is interconnected.

    Even a written commentary would be interesting undertaking. Anyone else interested in making this happen?
  5. DarthWolvo23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    Don't fully understand but am definitely interested.

    Would love to do a scene by scene or dvd chapter by chapter commentary with supporting film shots.

    Would be awesome
  6. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    I like that. Separate each episode into chapters. I don't think we'll need any further numbering.

    For instance:

    OBI-WAN: I have a bad feeling about this. (II,19; III, 2; IV,12; IV,16; V,10; VI, 3; VI, 11)

    or whatever. Those chapter numbers are guesses on my part. Also, that first bit of dialogue with "I don't sense anything" can have a reference to the line in VI "Strange that I have not." And so on.
  7. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Before recklessly making life-long commitments:


    (AOTC) Anakin: You are in my very soul. Tormenting me. What should I do? I will do whatever you ask.

    (ROTS) Anakin: I will do whatever you ask,just help me save Padme's life, I can't live without her.
  8. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    "Hello, I am C-3PO, human cyborg relations. How might I serve you?"
  9. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    I just noticed an extension of one I posted earlier.

    At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Anakin and Padme both ask (to Obi-Wan and Sidious) if the other is alright. Probably indicating a symbiotic relationship between the lovers. However, I hadn't noticed that they also say this to each other when Anakin gets back from rescuing Palpatine:

    PADME: There were whispers that you'd been killed.
    ANAKIN: I'm alright.
    ...
    ANAKIN: Are you alright? You're trembling. What's going on?

    These comments come at a time when the two are indeed alright. Later however;

    PADME: Obi-Wan... Is Anakin alright?
    ...
    VADER: Where is Padme. Is she safe? Is she alright?

    This time of course, both are "dying".


    Another instance of a repetition pre-turn and post-turn is:

    PADME: Do you think Obi-Wan can help us?
    ANAKIN: We don't need his help. Our baby is a blessing.

    Later;
    PADME: He cares about us.
    ANAKIN: Us?
    PADME: He knows. He wants to help us.
    Anakin smiles

    I think this is a good representation of his fall. Drama as Anakin, but when the same thing is said to Vader he laughs and shrugs it of.
  10. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    A couple more.

    TPM-
    ANAKIN: Hey! Wait for me.
    QUI-GON: No, Annie, you stay there. Stay right where you are.
    ANAKIN: But, I...
    QUI-GON: Stay in that cockpit.

    ROTS:
    MACE: If what you have told me is true, you will have gained my trust. But for now, remain here. Wait for me in the Council chambers until we return.
    ANAKIN: Yes... Master.

    Possibly an indication that Anakin is being treated like a child?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM-
    OBI-WAN: And there's an even bigger danger. If the Viceroy escapes he will return with another droid army.
    AOTC-
    YODA: If Dooku escapes, rally more systems to his cause he will.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This one is more of an observation than a dialogue mirror:
    ANAKIN: At last. We can capture that monster and end this war.
    It just struck me that Anakin uses the word capture. A small reminder of his loyalty to the Jedi Code. Another possible example of someting similar occurs with Obi-Wan on Utapau. It is said that Jedi don't kill unarmed opponents; after Obi-Wan drops the vent on Grievous's guards, he waits for the surviving droid to activate his weapon before killing it.
  11. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    You're onto the most important theme in Star Wars. It's about self-imposed prisons.

    The Gungans exile themselves and stay under water for fear that the Naboo feel superior to them.

    Obi-Wan tells Jar-Jar to stay inside the droid room aboard the Nubian Cruiser.

    Anakin is forced with the choice to stay on Tattooine or go off and become a Jedi.

    Mace tells Anakin to stay on Tattooine. "He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should've stayed here and not gotten involved."

    Threepio expresses that he and Artoo should stay on the ship on Geonosis.

    Anakin chooses to stay with Obi-Wan to fight Dooku instead of saving Padme.

    Anakin tells Artoo to stay with the ship on Mustafar.

    The entire plot of THX 1138 is about a prison without walls. Also, listen carefully and you'll hear LOTS of Star Wars dialogue. It even has the same ring to it. "The theater of noise is proof of our potential." ... "No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now."

    "Owen he can't stay here forever."

    Luke tells the droids to say outside in Mos Eisley.

    "Look, a few minutes ago you said you didn't want to just wait here to be captured. Now all you want to do is stay?" - Luke

    He tells the droids to stay where they are in the Death Star.

    "Stay on target!" "Stay on target" *BOOM*

    "General, I've got to leave. I can't stay anymore." - Han

    "I thought you had decided to stay." - Leia

    "Han you'll freeze before you reach the first marker!" - Some guy.

    "We're going to get pulverized if we stay out here much longer." - Leia

    "I think it might be better if I stay here and guard the ship." - Threepio

    "Stay here and watch after the camp, Artoo." - Luke

    "You must not go!" - Yoda "But Han and Leia will die if I don't!" - Luke

    "They'll have to stay here, but at least they'll be safe." - Lando (Leia and Chewbacca are to be imprisoned but at least they'll be safe, right?)

    "Chewie and I will take care of this. You stay here." - Han

    "As long as I stay, I'm endangering the group and our mission." - Luke

    "Wait, come back! Artoo, stay with me." - Threepio

    "No. You're coming with me. I'll not leave you here. I've got to save you." - Luke

    "I have decided that we shall stay here." - Threepio

    The Empire exists in all of us. Every time we restrict our actions for the sake of safety or comfort, we are creating a prison for ourselves. Hesitation, thinking, worrying is the same thing on a smaller scale. If anyone has seen the Labyrinth, think back to that old junk lady! All she did was surround you with familiar and safe things in order to protect you from the world outside. "For a safe and secure society!" ORDER! WE MUST HAVE ORDER!

    And last but not least.
    "Stay and help you I will." - Yoda

    "Help." Well, that one's for another day.
  12. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    I see. You've certainly noticed a lot of examples. Good observation. I can see where you are coming from with most of it. I like the comparison of Mace to Owen.


    A couple of links within Revenge of the Sith:

    ANAKIN: I've found a way to save you.
    PADME: Save me?
    ANAKIN: From my nightmares.
    PADME: Is that what's been bothering you?
    ...
    SIDIOUS: I know what's been troubling you.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    MACE: I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him.
    ...
    SIDIOUS: They don't trust you Anakin. They know your power will be too strong to control.
  13. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    I can't believe I forgot this one.

    "Please you majesty, stay here where its safe." - Palpatine
    "You have nowhere to go. You cannot survive outside the city shell. We only want to help you." - Robot in THX 1138

  14. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Another fairly obvious one:

    ROTS-
    ANAKIN: I simply don't sense betrayal in Senator Amidala.
    PALPATINE studies ANAKIN carefully and gives him a skeptical look.
    PALPATINE: But you don't seem to want to admit it. There is much conflict in you, Anakin.
    ROTJ-
    LUKE: I will not turn...and you'll be forced to kill me.
    VADER: If that is your destiny.
    LUKE: Search your feelings, father. You can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
  15. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Just noticed this-

    AOTC-
    DOOKU: What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith?
    OBI-WAN: No, that's not possible. The Jedi would be aware of it.
    COUNT DOOKU: The dark side of the Force has clouded their vision, my friend. Hundreds of Senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord known as Darth Sidious.
    OBI-WAN: I don't believe you.

    ROTS-
    OBI-WAN: He was deceived by a lie. We all were. It appears that the Chancellor is behind everything, including the war. Palpatine is the Sith Lord we've been looking for. After the death of Count Dooku, Anakin became his new apprentice.
    PADME: I don't believe you ... I can't

    Both in response to the revelation of the Sith's identity. The shroud of the darkside of course.
    A bit off-topic for this thread, but what do you make of Obi-Wan and Yoda's failure to believe a Sith Lord was controlling the Senate? Obi-Wan states it doesn't feel right... why? Also, why would Yoda conclude that Dooku is spreading lies and deceit over giving them the exact information they needed? I know the darkside clouds there vision, I'm just thinking aloud.
    In fairness to the Jedi, come the time of ROTS they have realised the connection between the dark side and the Senate somewhat. I wonder how long they would have taken to discover Palpatine was Sidious if he hadn't "given himself up" to Anakin...
  16. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Anyone else think these two scenes in ROTS and ROTJ are very similar?


    ROTJ:

    HAN: Look. I want you to take her. I mean it. Take her. You need all the help you can get. She's the fastest ship in the fleet.
    LANDO: All right, old buddy. You know, I know what she means to you. I'll take good care of her. She-she won't get a scratch. All right?

    ROTS:

    ANAKIN: You're going to need me on this one Master.
    OBI-WAN: Oh, I agree. However, this may turn out to be nothing more than a wild bantha chase.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Maybe they expected some kind of easily identifiable Force mojo as opposed to simple politics, scheming, and manipulation.
  18. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    TPM-
    ANAKIN: What are we gonna do?
    QUI-GON: We shall be patient.
    AOTC-
    OBI-WAN: Patience. Use the force. Think.
    ROTJ-
    SIDIOUS: Patience, my friend. In time he will seek you out.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROTS-
    SIDIOUS: I can't hold on any longer. I'm too weak.
    ROTJ-
    YODA: Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROTS-
    GRIEVOUS: Back away. I will deal with this Jedi slime myself.
    ROTJ-
    VADER: Leave them to me. I will deal with them myself.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROTS-
    CODY: When have I ever let you down?
    ROTJ-
    LANDO: Come on Han old buddy, don't let me down.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROTS-
    SIDIOUS: You're fulfilling your destiny Anakin.
    ANH-
    OBI-WAN: Your destiny lies along a different path than mine.

    Anakin's destiny certainly didn't lie along a different path than Sidious'.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ROTS-
    PADME: What is it?
    ANAKIN: Nothing.
    PADME: Don't do this... don't shut me out. Let me help you.
    ROTJ-
    HAN: Hey, what's goin' on?
    LEIA: Nothing. I just want to be alone for a little while.
    HAN: Nothing? Come on, tell me. What's goin' on?
    LEIA: I... I can't tell you.
  19. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    The "Thousand" Fallacy:

    TPM
    KI-ADI-MUNDI: The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.

    AOTC
    PALPATINE: I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, be split in two.

    ANH
    OBI-WAN: For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.

    * * *

    Authority figures ostensibly on different sides of a Force equation fall victim to or else knowingly promulgate an Argument From Age (i.e., something has lasted a long time so it must still be true, valid or estimable).

  20. Captain_Cosmos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2011
    star 1
    Obi-Wan in TPM: Nooooo!!!

    Vader in ROTS: Nooooo!!!

    Luke in ESB: Nooooo!!!

    *Do I sense a lack of imagination on the part of the writer here?
  21. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Well, the "Nooooo!!!", a key dialogue motif, is denial in its purest form. THAT should tell you something about the scope of GL's themes and the genius of SW itself.
  22. Captain_Cosmos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2011
    star 1
    Or it could mean he's using the motif thing as a cop-out because he's run out of ideas?
  23. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Like bashers repeating the same remarks ad infinitum? Nah, couldn't be, could it?

    Now that the saga is more or less complete, your charge may be partially correct -- but who's to say; who can say? Perhaps Lucas got out the bulk of his ideas with the PT; perhaps he has many more still to express.

    Seems pretty clear -- to me, anyway -- that the Star Wars films deliberately repeat various things, from the opening titles/roll-up, and the end iris-out; the last of various scene wipes, to the presence of lightsaber duels, high ledges, bottomless pits, blast doors, characters talking about the Force and feelings, droid humour, shots, edits, music... you name it. "Nooooo!!!" gets an airing in every film; so does "I have a bad feeling about this".

    Personally, I'm going to look upon this as Lucas, the writer/artist, doing things a certain way for artistic effect; and not because he lacks ideas. Repetition itself -- done on the scale of Star Wars -- is, itself, an idea. And you bat away my interpretation without even THINKING about it; not even for an instant. That tells me something. Either you appreciate Star Wars the way it is or you don't. You're free to choose another thread if this one bothers you.
  24. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Many of these repeating themes existed BEFORE the first Star Wars film, WITHIN the first film, and also in the original trilogy. Lucas didn't run out of ideas for the prequels, he stuck to his original formula. The Star Wars is in the formula, not the spaceships and sword fights.
  25. Skytrotter Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2011
    Here are a couple of other related pieces of dialogue...

    ROTS-

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: (To Grievous) Hello there!

    ANH-

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: (To R2-D2) Hello there!

    AOTC-

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: (To Dooku): I'll never join you, Dooku.

    TESB-

    Luke Skywalker: (To Vader)
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