Lines / Sequences in the OT given new meaning after ROTS

Watching ESB with commentaries, Lucas mentioned that Yoda was invented when writing this episode, because original script was all about Obi-wan.
Originally, according to his first writings, Obi-wan was the one who dies in Dagobah.

Because Lucas had took Obi-wan out of sight in ANH, it was needed another character to teach Luke and put sense back into trilogy.

Yoda had trained Jedis over 800 years, so I presume he was not in his best shape when defeating Dooku and Sidious.

It is also mention in commentaries that Anakin becames not so powerful as he used to be after loosing his body parts. That's why emperor was so confident about Luke - a person physically complete that could win and take Vader's place.

Besides that, Vader was coming back to sense (again) light side and would never win against Luke that was starting to sense dark side.

That's how I see the way a power scale based on age and light/dark side influence.

Anyone?

 

in ANH when obi tells luke that his father was a good man, now i believe it, after AOTC i thought we would never see that obi and anakin were friends

 

"No, there is another" is about Leia - watch OT listening to Lucas commentaries, he mentions it and how this will makes sense when Luke talks to Leia in the Ewoks place, revealing she is his sister.

 

-"No, there is another"---wasnt sure before (debated it in my own) but now I think Yoda was referring to Anakin
althought wrong i have always like the idea that yoda could always sence the good till deep inside vader,

Also ROTS brings more meaning to ROTJs title , because anakin returns from the darkside

 

When Obi-Wan first comes upon Luke after the Tusken Raiders are gone, he must know something large is afoot. Here is Luke, Anakin's son with his old "pet" astromech droid and Padme's old protocol droid. Then later, Anakin's "pet" droid plays a message from Anakin's OTHER child. This changes the meaning of the shocked "I gotta sit down" look on Obi-Wan's face when Luke mentions the name "Obi-Wan Kenobi." Before, I just thought he was shocked to hear himself called Obi-Wan again. Now, I think he is shocked and a little scared at the possiblity that the "plan" to kill Vader and Sideous has been put in motion. Maybe Yoda told him something like "When Luke is grown enough to find your true identity, you must take him to Alderaan so his training can begin. Destroy the Sith, he must." Could you imagine waking up to a normal day, only to find out that galaxy shattering events were being set in motion while you were innocently eating breakfast? Poor Obi-Wan must have though someone slipped LSD (or Glitterstim Spice?) into his morning cup of blue milk when he saw Luke, Threepio, and Artoo.

One a sidenote:
I know there is a lot of debate on who actually remembers Threepio and Artoo in the OT, but Obi-Wan MUST, at the very least, suspect that the two droid with Luke used to belong to Anakin and Padme. He mentions Artoo by name in ROTS several times, and Threepio flys him off Mustafar (in the same gold platings he has in the OT), then to Polis Massan. His statement that he "doesn't recall ever owning a droid" is still accurate, and his "very interesting" becomes a huge understatement.

 

"Your father's lightsaber. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

 

Not good piont, GREAT piont.

 

I am going to paraphrase the lines

Anakin: Luke, leave me.
Luke: No, I've got to save you.
Anakin: You already have, Luke. You were right. You were right about me. Tell your sister you were right

This to me is significant considering Yoda's final counsel to Anakin about letting go of attachments and that death is just a natural part of existence. Luke had already saved his father's soul and had redeemed him through love. There was nothing more to do in order to save Anakin Skywalker but let go of the attachment to the physical and embrace the spiritual destiny that Anakin had before him. To me, these lines are more powerful because of what Anakin had been counseled to do by Master Yoda...and his failure to heed those words led to his downfall. Now, rather than let Luke vainly attempt to cling to and preserve Anakin's physical and mortal life, which could have resulted in their both being killed by the DS II's explosion, he tells Luke that it's okay to let go and that he had already saved that part of Anakin Skywalker that was important.

 

yoda told luke during his training that he takes the quick and easy path, it will lead him to the dark side as it did obi wan's apprentice.

 

when Vader ask luke to rule the galaxy as he do with Padme....

when Vader says "Obi Wan once thought as you do" ... luke was telling him there's still good... ALMOST PADME LAST WORDS!!!!

when Luke says "you fought the Clone Wars?" this guy killed General Grievous!!

and of course the Emperor words "I Can feel your anger..." the same excat accent in the two movies!!

 

Now that you have something to compare to (i.e., Anakin just before his fall), Luke's behavior at Jabba's palace seems all the more distressing -- the clothing, the demeanor, the force choking -- watch ROTS now and you find yourself wondering whether it's already too late.

 

Well what I noticed is that in ROTJ that when Vader realizes that Luke has a twin sister (Leia), he says: "Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete." And in ROTS Obi-Wan says: "I have failed Anakin. I have failed you."

 

"Vader watching Luke get fried at the end of ROTJ .. flipping once he realises that he can actually save him after being unable to save Padme.. "

Very, very nice point there. Your a pretty good thinker.

 

When Obi-Wan first comes upon Luke after the Tusken Raiders are gone, he must know something large is afoot. Here is Luke, Anakin's son with his old "pet" astromech droid and Padme's old protocol droid. Then later, Anakin's "pet" droid plays a message from Anakin's OTHER child. This changes the meaning of the shocked "I gotta sit down" look on Obi-Wan's face when Luke mentions the name "Obi-Wan Kenobi." Before, I just thought he was shocked to hear himself called Obi-Wan again. Now, I think he is shocked and a little scared at the possiblity that the "plan" to kill Vader and Sideous has been put in motion. Maybe Yoda told him something like "When Luke is grown enough to find your true identity, you must take him to Alderaan so his training can begin. Destroy the Sith, he must." Could you imagine waking up to a normal day, only to find out that galaxy shattering events were being set in motion while you were innocently eating breakfast? Poor Obi-Wan must have though someone slipped LSD (or Glitterstim Spice?) into his morning cup of blue milk when he saw Luke, Threepio, and Artoo.


Excellent post! I agree with you entirely. Also, Obi Wan's "No, wait, Luke! It's too dangerous!" as Luke runs off towards home...poor Obi Wan is probably thinking, "Oh, nice. If Luke gets caught up in a mess with Stormtroopers at his homestead, there goes our plan."

Then, when Luke comes back and announces how he wants to leave with Ben to train, watch Obi Wan...he nods his head in such finality, like he is truly accepting that THIS is the time. Luke is ready. Plan into action.

 

Yoda in ROTS: Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become.

Obi-Wan in ROTJ: He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

 

Excellent observation! I remember during my first few viewings of ROTJ, noticing that change in Luke. He is darker. which makes sense given what he's found out about his father. He is very different from the young man in ESB. Good stuff. When Luke warns Jabba not to underestimate his powers in ROTJ, there's a shadow of Anakin's boasting to Dooku in ROTS, when he says his powers have doubled since their last duel.

 

ANH: Kenobi- I don't remember ever owning a droid.

How humorous now that we know the Jedi didn't own anything- it was all property of the Jedi as a whole. R2- owned by Padme, loaned to Anakin. C3PO - owned by Anakin, loaned to Padme. Kenobi's droid - just a droid, dies a quick death. R2, indestructible.

 

I feel the scene in ROTJ when Palpatine arrives at the Death Star is far more impressive now that the story is complete. In the context of the OT, it was interesting to finally meet this Nixon-type character, an Emperor who we had heard about but never really seen (other than a glimpse in ESB). Up to that point, we had been told that he had a role in the purge of the Jedi and the rise of Imperial rule, but it's vague and we don't realize the scope of his involvement. Now, in the context of the entire saga, when Palpatine arrives and strolls down the ramp...we see Palpatine, the ultimate evil, the true Architect of the Empire, Master of the Sith... his scarred face takes us right back to his battle with Mace...his cane, reminiscent of Yoda's walking stick...then, as Vader is kneeling at the bottom of the ramp, just as Anakin did all those years ago when he chose to become the Emperor's servant, he says..."Rise my friend." It's simple, but it carries so much more weight now that we know how much these two have experienced...they are evil, but in a strange sense, they are friends.

 

OMG when i watched it for the first time i went like *** this sounds EXACTLY like in ESB! Ian was just amazing..i wonder if he looked at ESB before doing his Sidious scenes for ROTS...

 

Darth Vader, when Luke is trying to convince him to come back to the Jedi side:

"It is too late for me"

When you see ROTS, you understand hehe.

 

The lines from Return of the Jedi that really stood out to me during a recent viewing:

Vader: Help me take off my mask.

Luke: But you'll die without it.

Vader: Nothing can stop that now.

Before the prequels, Vader was just being factual. After the prequels, it's actually the end of Anakin's character arc: He finally accepts the inevitability of death.

 

That's all so true.Before seeing Rots I was always just impressed with Luke in that he was getting more powerful and all that.That he had all these plans to free Han and was saying things like "This is the last mistake you'll ever make!" and "Free us or die." But when I watched RotJ after RotS it felt so different.I just kept thinking that Oh no,he's just like his father now... "I warn you not to underestimate my power." to Jabba and Anakin's "You underestimate my power."
It was so close that he didn't go to the dark side and now I finally see the real danger there was at the beginning of RotJ.

 

" i feel a presence that i have not felt since.." - Vader in ANH

He cuts this line off, as he senses Obi Wan

 

In ROTS, Padme wants Anakin to come away with her, go somewhere safe. Anakin refuses because he can keep her safe on Coruscant.

In ROTJ, after Luke tells Leia that she is his sister, she wants them to go away--go somewhere where Vader can't find them. Luke refuses because he wants to save his father.

 

ROTS [/i] and ROTJ. It?s when we watch as Anakin has to choose between the Jedi and the Sith. In Sith, Palpatine lies to him about power and life without death, causing him to help Palpatine in killing Mace Windu with Force lightning. Then, in Jedi, we receive a scene much like the one mentioned, except its between Luke, the last surviving Jedi, and the two Sith Lords. And just like ROTS, Palpatine uses Force lightning to try and kill Luke, and Vader must choose between the Jedi and the Sith.

Why I love these parallel scenes so much is because, as a viewer, we have to interpret the feelings in Anakin/Vader's mind. It makes you wonder if he's thinking about the promise of saving the ones he loved, and how it was all nothing but lies. Its just great internal conflicts like these two examples that make Star Wars so much more than fantasy adventures, but really good filmmaking.