Lines / Sequences in the OT given new meaning after ROTS

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by crouchingjedi1, May 18, 2005.

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  1. Master_Achilles Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 1
    I enjoy this thread as well. I was wondering if I can break the rules a bit in here. I have one line that is amplified to the max from AOTC by ROTS. It is - They'll do their job well. - Jango Fett to Obi a Jedi. He knows Obi is a Jedi and is suspicous of him, like a police officer you don't like. But, Jango gets the satisfaction of saying this line with mischievous pleasure knowing that the clones modeled after him have good old order 66 waiting to be used. Kill all Jedi! I loved the connection. Scuse my departure from OT lines.
  2. crouchingjedi1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 1
    I noticed a bit of foreshadowing in the end of ROTS. Yoda's robe came drifting down and got ensnared on a piece of upturned debris, and he turned and made it for the exhaust port. Later the Clones report that his body cannot be found, to which Mas Amedda states "THen is he not dead." In ROTJ, when Yoda dies, he disappears into the force, leaving his cloak behind. His body cannot be found, and he is not truly dead.
    />/>

    Here is how I see a potential explanation.

    ROTS--one minute the Emperor is duking it out with Yoda, they both fall, Emperor survives, while all that is left of Yoda *from his point of view* is Yoda's robe.

    ANH--Vader kills Obi-Wan and all that's left is his robe.

    Now enter a scene that we do not see on screen after the destruction of the Death Star in ANH when Vader reports to the Emperor.

    Vader: They destroyed our death star.
    Emperor: It was a mild setback, and a necessary one.
    Vader: I have finally destroyed Kenobi.
    Emperor: Are you sure?
    Vader: Yes, I struck him down with my lightsaber at point blank range. Although something weird happened.
    Emperor: Go on.
    Vader: When I struck him down, he immediately vanished and all that was left of him was his robe.
    Emperor: The same thing happened when I faced Yoda. The jedi then are now fully extinct.

    and of course, they go on

    Vader: Perhaps, but as I was battling one of the rebels, I sensed that the pilot was strong with the force.
    Emperor: Impossible. We have accounted for the death of every known jedi. Get an intelligence briefing on the identity of the pilots leading the attack.
    Vader: As you wish *breathes*.



    />/>
  3. Midgetsforbreakfast Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 4
    "In ROTJ, when Yoda dies, he disappears into the force, leaving his cloak behind. His body cannot be found, and he is not truly dead."



    Actually, that is his blanket that is left behind there. Not his cloak. That disappears with him in that scene.

    Just FYI. :)
  4. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    It has nothing to do with the cloak giantsforlunch, it has to do with the disappearing and the statement of "if his body cannot be found, then he is not dead."
  5. Annina Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 1
    I always notice,when I watch RotS,how similar Anakin's "What do you mean?" to Padme is to Vader's same lines to Tarkin in ANH...it's a small thing but fun anyway.He says it in such a similar way it's cool.
  6. Bail_Organa_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2005
    star 2
    Leia,

    Nice post a little ways back. I think you are correct that Obi-Wan is often right about Anakin while the Jedi Council is wrong. You are right to point out that Obi-Wan did not think Anakin was ready for his first solo mission in AOTC, and was proven correct and the Council proven wrong. Remember, though, that Obi-Wan is also right in thinking that the Council should make Anakin a Jedi Master ("it will not be long before the council makes you a jedi master")and should not keep Anakin so close to the Emperor and ask him to spy on Palpatine. It was the Jedi Council's mistakes that led to Anakin's turn, not Obi-Wan's.

    If Obi-Wan could have controlled Anakin, he would have turned him back to the Light Side on Mustafar.

    Unfortunately, b/c the Jedi Council split Anakin and Obi-Wan up, sending Obi-Wan to Utapau, Anakin had his first taste of the addiction that is the dark side and could never turn back. If Obi-Wan had been with Anakin the entire time, I do not think the events would have played out as they did, and I do not think Anakin would have turned. By the time Anakin and Obi-Wan were having their epic duel on Mustafar, Anakin was so deep into his addiction with the dark side that nothing could have turned him back to the light. Obi-Wan had the most control of anyone over Anakin b/c their relationship was so strong, but even he could not save Anakin on Mustafar.
  7. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Luke's "like my father before me" line.

    It has new meaning because it's absolutely, completely false.
    I also quibbled with this line, even before the PT.
    If Luke were a jedi, like his father, then he would have
    taken his father's place at Palpatine's side.

    Luke should've said:"I'm a jedi, like my dead beatdad back there on the
    floor should have been. In fact, if he could have been a Jedi like
    me, we could have avoided this entire mess. I'm sorry, were you
    saying something?"
  8. Bail_Organa_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2005
    star 2
    Because this is so painful for him and affected him so greatly I don't think he would ever mention Padme to anyone ever again. He has repressed her memory out of self-loathing. If he were to mention her to Luke in that scene I think it would make it confusing, since he had mentioned Obi-Wan several times before in their previous encounter.


    ...However, him actually saying Padme's name would show that he is actually reaching into those memories and thoughts--stirring the tiny bit of the good man that was Anakin Skywalker within.

    *shrug*


    Midgets,

    Great analysis here. I think it makes perfect sense for Darth Vader to never again say Padme's name, until his mask is off and he is re-connecting with those repressed memories and sees so much of her goodness in his son. Your explanation about Darth Vader's self-hate and the repressed memories is dead on. I still think we should have heard Padme's name at least once in the OT, especially from Darth Vader at the end of his physical life.

  9. DARTHFINGERZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    "Luke's "like my father before me" line.

    It has new meaning because it's absolutely, completely false."

    ^^ I don't think it's false because Anakin was a great Jedi before his turn.

    Since Luke knows his father by his true name in RoTJ I think it's reasonable to say he likely did some research on his father between EsB & RoTJ and found out more about him. (ie...his name, his Jedi history)
  10. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin wiped out an entire village of Tuskens as a Padawan, before he ever even
    was a Jedi. And what were his acts of greatness as a Jedi?
    The clone war?

    Yoda: "Wars not make one great."

    I like Anakin, but his is off from the get go. Just because he is powerful
    doesn't make him a hero.
  11. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    If you notice, Palpatine constantly engineered ObiWan and Anakin's separation. He is the one who put Padme under their protection, drawing the fire of the bounty hunters, which led to the Kamino chase and Padme's exile to Naboo. He also put Anakin up in the Council, knowing the Jedi would rebuff the Chancellor's move. The Utapau campaign was the final break. He is left with Mace, who explicitly does not trust him.
  12. Bookedout Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 3
    I know many have talked on this thread about R2 not having a memory wipe, but it occured to me that there is much more at stake now in ANH should R2 fall into the hands of the Empire. He's not just carrying the Death Star plans inside his "rusty innards", he's protecting the identities of the Skywalker children as well.
  13. SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2003
    star 2
    R2 is the most resourceful droid in the saga, and i think its cool that they didnt wipe his memory. That explains why he hauled it to Obi so fast with the plans. It is great that R2 has saved the day continuously throughout the saga. He is in fact the one the force used to bring Luke and Obi together when the time was right. R2 was just smart enough to keep quiet about the things he has seen. I always thought that when Obi stated "I dont seem to remember ever owning a droid" and nods to R2, who nods back, that they were sharing a secret. I have thought that from the very beginning, and was amazed now that its ture.
  14. DARTHMAGI Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2005
    star 1
    I thought Obi Wan was just staring off into deep thought since he never really owned artoo unless it was between Ep III and IV. Artoo pretty much belonged to Qui Gon and then Anakin
  15. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    It's not a line ... more like an action.

    But when Obi-Wan is walking through the corridors of the Death Star and he sees Darth Vader just standing there. You can feel what Vader is feeling ... all by just seeing him stand there. It's powerful because you know what's going through Vader's head, you know he is staring at Obi-Wan with anger and hate.
  16. forcefan68 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Newbie (or is that youngling? here. Been lurking for a while and this thread finally made me take the plunge. Great discussion and great ideas here. Here's my $0.02:

    ESB: TheCRZA beat me to it. Yoda: "Wars not make one great." While Anakin can be seen as the most obvious example of this idea, I think think this can be applied more broadly. While there were heroes in the war, it certainly caused a lot more grief than greatness for these characters.

    ROTJ: These have been mentioned by a few before.

    For me, the visual of Vader on the Endor gantry after Luke has been lead away really connects to the scene in ROTS when he is on the Mustafar gantry after killing the separatists. The gantries look very similar, and you can almost see the same expression with a tear running down his face on Endor. In his head you can almost hear a "what am I doing?" in both scenes.

    Luke: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."
    Palpatine: "Your faith in your friends is yours."

    I've always enjoyed that exchange, but now I find it even more interesting after Palpatine's discussion of Sith history. I think Luke hits a little too close to home with that line, considering the same weakness could be said of Darth Plagueus and his downfall. The thought of having that same fatal flaw (as his former master it seems from his smirk in the opera house), really gets under his skin, hence the snapped reply.

    And what could be more Sith like than his reply. Despite calling Vader "my friend", we can see that Palpatine really has no true friends. To me the PT has only emphasized that the Sith masters are the ultimate users. They use people, governments, even midichlorians it seems, to further their desires. They care for noone and use everyone!

    Which brings me to my final point from ROTJ: Palpatine: "Only now at the end do you understand. Your feeble skills are no match for the Dark Side."

    Ever since I saw ROTJ, I always thought there was some truth to that line. In a raw, physical sense, the Dark Side is more powerful. Even Yoda had a challenge against Sidious. But the power comes at the price of the person's humanity, his soul (Sith eyes and Palpatine's physical appearance help emphasize this). Thus, the Sith Masters' total loss of caring for anything except power. The wonderful thing that Lucas conveys is that while the "skills" may not be a match, the human spirit ultimately is more than a match for the Dark Side.

    Thanks for hanging in there and listening into the ramblings of this newbie. I look forward to more great discussions here.
  17. TheWord Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Vader (RotS): You underestimate my power!
    (last words before getting sliced up)

    Luke (RotJ): I warn you not to underestimate my power.
    (flirting with the Dark Side, in Jabba's palace)
  18. Juan_Kenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    This may be off topic but: Does anyone else wonder what R2D2 is saying to C3PO when Anikan returns to Padme's apartment after slaying the Jedi in the Temple? Probably something like: "Holy crap! he's flipped, get me off this freakin' ship." Then C3PO is all: "Well he has been under a lot of stress. . . "
    R2: "STRESS?! STRESS?! You gotta be kidding me!"

    Think of that next time you watch that scene. Cracks me up.
  19. TheLightSide Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    -In Episode 6:

    Vader: "I have felt him."

    Palps: "Strange that I have not."


    Palps cannot sense Luke pass by and land on the forest moon of Endor, but Vader can.

    Just as Yoda and Mace could not sense Sidious 19-32 years earlier. Now Palpatine can not sense the Light Side.

    He doesn't even feel the growing Light Side in Vader, and does not sense Luke's presence.

    Great change is in store for the Emperor. The Force is MOVING!!



  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    "I've failed you."

    Clearly a reference to 'his failure is complete'. It's so very sad.
  21. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    "...and he was a good friend"

    That gets me everytime!

    :_|
  22. Obilieveinme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2005
    star 4
    Luke's "like my father before me" line.

    He is giving a hidden pep talk to Vader...to let him know he has good in him.
  23. Yellowcard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 1
    EP III
    "I do not fear the dark side as you do."

    EP IV

    "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" "You don't know the power of the dark side."

    The Obi-Wan once thought as you do line is obviously saying that Vader senses that in Luke's mind he "fears" the dark side of the force and is afraid to succumb to it. This is in exact contrast to Anakin and Obi-Wan's conversation on Mustafar. Anakin senses that Obi-Wan fears the dark side of the force. So, it makes sense that Luke and Obi-Wan both feared the dark side of the force.
  24. forcefan68 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Also reminds of Obi-wan's resigned: "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."
  25. Annina Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 1
    Yes :( Obi-Wan blames himself about what happened to Anakin,and he really shouldn't.I also love the "And he was a good friend ." line because it shows that he really does still have these fond memories of his friendship with Anakin.And that the bad things that happened between them later on were not always on his mind.He probably thinks of Anakin and Vader as separate people now.
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