Lines / Sequences in the OT given new meaning after ROTS

Moving up to save.

note how luke had "memories" of yoda, whilst leia had "memories" of padme

Actually I believe it has more to do with Luke being in a delirious or dream-like state when Obi-wan appeared and told him to go to Dagobah. Sadly Yoda had no contact with either twin at the time of their birth.

obi-wan ep.4: he was the best starpilot in the galaxy. and a good friend.

the whole scenes above coruscant at the beginning of ROTS show this, most notably when anakin is approaching the invisible hand in his starfighter, and when he lands half of the ship on coruscant. The scenes in the elevator bought a smile aswell, when they argue about R2

New to this thread so I dont know if this has been observed or not. I see that we all realise that Ben and Yoda are in contact w/ Quigon. I also believe he was in contact with Darth Vader. How? Vader learned how to become a force ghost like Yoda and Ben. This was a tecnique that was not taught to Anakin by Yoda or Ben. There was only one who could have taught him and that was Quigon.

^^^^

maybe, or maybe anakin always knew the secret of achieving eternal life because he was the chosen one

There's nothing in ROTJ to suggest that Vader was in contact with Qui Gon or any other Force ghosts before he was reunited with Obi Wan and Yoda. It makes more sense to say that Vader got a free pass into heaven because he brought balance to the Force. Why would Qui Gon tell Vader about the path to immortality? That quite possibly would have given Vader enough power to overthrow Palpatine and rule the galaxy as the most powerful Sith ever.

Two events that have denegrated ROTJ for me due to ROTS:

Vader in ROTJ to Luke, "You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master!" That was such a powerful line in ROTJ, and for years I wondered what The Emperor did to make Vader fear him like this that he had to obey his master.......Well, I am still waiting.


Padme dying with Luke & Leia being born, and Luke being born first, and Padme having no contact with Leia at all. Now when Princess Leia and Luke talk about their real mom in ROTJ, it makes no sense. You guys can give me the force memories B.S., but I don't buy it, and even people I know who love the PT, this is one scenario they have a problem with.

I tried reading all the posts but there were too many. Anyway, Here's my two cents.

First, someone was talking about Vader's line in ROTJ: "Obi-Wan once tought as you do." Smome believe this should have happened durnig the duel. But I believe this meeting actually happens at the Star Destroyer platform before Obi leaves for Utapau. In that scene, Anni feels all bad about himself and Obi comforts him saying that he IS a good Jedi and that he will overcome his issues... But Anakin knew better, he knew the dark side had overtaken him already. Ben believed in him like Luke at that point.

Most people try to place Ben believing in Anakin at the end of the story, during the duel, but by that point it's too late to assume Ben would try to bring Anain back.

The main thing that impacted me after watching all six was the scene in Empire where Vader is talking to Luke telepathically and asking him to join him. Before, that scene was scary and creepy. Vader had so much power to reach Luke and one felt Vader as a truly heartless, tempting, person. But after ROTS, the scene was very, very sad. Vader sounds lonely, like he's pleading with Luke to join him because his Master is so untrustworthy. One really feels Vader needing to connect with someone. It was, like I said, rather depressing, I felt pity for Vader.

I've been thing about the deleted Qui-Gon scene from Sith and I think I figured out why Lucas cut it.

Qui-Gon speaks with Yoda thru the force and tells him that it takes an act of compassion to become one with the force and that Love was the answer all along. Since the Sith do not Love and our not compassionate they will never cheat death.

I feel Lucas cut this as it gives away the ending to Return of the Jedi which chronologically is still three episodes away. Lucas cut the line to maintain the mystery of the "Ultimate" power.

Episode I:
Qui-Gon Jinn, a maverick Jedi, follows his own path which causes him to butt heads with the Jedi Council. Jinn is killed and his body is cremated.

Episode II:
While in deep meditation Yoda makes a connection with the spirit of Qui-Gon. Anakin vows to stop people from dying.

Episode III:
Anakin is lured to the darkside with Palpatine promising to teach him the power to cheat death. Once Anakin falls he admits only one has discovered this power and that he and Anakin will need to work together to figure it out. Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has been communicating with Qui-Gon Jinn who has returned from the netherworld of the force. Yoda and Obi-Wan in their solitude on Dagobah and Tatooine will train with Jinn.

Episode IV:
Obi-Wan tells Darth Vader "If ou strike me down I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine." Obi-Wan allows Vader to kill him and he disappears. Vader is left scratching his head. Obi-Wan speaks audible to Luke guiding him.

Episode V:
Obi-Wan appears before Luke in spirit form and sends him to train with Yoda. Obi-Wan reappears and warns Luke to beware the darkside. Vader reveals he is Luke's father.

Episode VI:
Luke returns to Yoda to complete his training and confirm his father's identity. Yoda dying disappears. Obi-Wan returns and fills in Luke about his past. Luke surrenders to Vader and tries to reason with him and convince him to turn from the darkside. The Emperor realizing Luke will not be turned tries to kill him. In one last act of compassion Vader turns against his master and throws him into the reactor core. Luke?s life is save but Vader is mortally wounded. Luke takes Vader's mask off revealing the face of Anakin. Anakin dies and Luke later burns Vader's armor. Obi-Wan, Yoda appear before Luke joined by the spirit of Anakin. Appearing not as the man he had become but as the Jedi he had once been.

When you look at the Force Ghost mystery in order each episode reveals a new clue about this mystery power the Jedi and Sith are both after. The turning point as Lucas said it would be back when "The Phantom Menace" was release is when Obi-Wan tells Vader "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine." At that point we see that the Jedi have discovered the power. What that power is, is fully revealed when Obi-Wan returns to Luke in spirit from on Dagobah. One's identity can be preserved in the force but only by letting go of your physical self, which Anakin finally does at the end.

In RotJ the Emperor tells Vader "His [Luke's] compassion for you will be his undoing."

If only Sidious knew! It was Anakin's compassion for his son that saved him and allowed him to become once with the force.

Vader in ROTJ to Luke, "You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master!" That was such a powerful line in ROTJ, and for years I wondered what The Emperor did to make Vader fear him like this that he had to obey his master.......Well, I am still waiting.

Maybe its the Emperor's lightning that makes Vader fear him so much.