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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Lit Exclusive: Dave Wolverton Addresses Fan Criticisms of The Courtship of Princess Leia, & MORE

Discussion in 'Literature' started by IG_2000, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I liked the novel - and even if I didn't like Han's decision to do the kidnapping - the idea of him "reverting" under stress is a plausible one.
     
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  2. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2013
    YES TO SPACE FABIO. [face_rofl]

    Personally, though...after the epic feels I got reading that adorable scene with Han and Leia sharing stale rations waiting for fiery doom near the end of LSatSoM, and then seeing this novel, which takes place around 3 to 3.5 years later...words kinda fail me. It also blows my mind slightly that Mon Mothma would think that little of Leia by that point in time. But errrrrrkay. [face_dunno]
     
  3. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Meh. The big problem with that explanation (well, one of the big problems with that explanation) is that the novel's relationship dynamic between Han and Leia never made much sense chronology-wise. I mean, this is four years after ROTJ. They really should have achieved some kind of relationship stability right now. It doesn't particularly mesh well with later continuity, but even without that, it's just kind of weird.
     
  4. ThreadSketch

    ThreadSketch Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2013
    [​IMG]

    YES TO THIS, so hard; glad to see I'm not totally crazy about feeling this way either.
     
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  5. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008

    But, let's be realistic.

    Everyone has a "rocky point" in their relationship at some time, whether it leads to a breakup or not.
     
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  6. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2014
    I enjoyed the novel, and would actually like to see the author return to rebuild the culture on Dathomir (post-SOD). We've got Ventress and Maul running around, plus any other Nightsister / Nightbrother clans on the planet. I'd also like to see some of these characters in the ST. The introduction of the Nightsisters and Dathomir expanded my view of the Force, beyond just Jedi / Sith - the CW series went even further. I hope to see more, and I'm glad TCOPL laid the foundation for this element of the Force mythos.
     
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  7. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The Courtship of Darth Maul.

    C'mon Wolverton. You know you want to.
     
  8. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    You gotta best him to bed him.

    Actually all it takes is a mean foot massage.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    So, did you hear?
    What?
    Darth Sidious threw Darth Maul through a freaking window!
    Way I heard it, it was over just a foot massage.
    Just a foot massage? Uh uh, it's never just a foot massage.
     
  10. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013

    Good news for Darth Maul/Kenobi shippers :)
     
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Absolutely. But a "rocky point" that long after ROTJ should not involve a love triangle with Space Fabio.

    Oh hell.
     
  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Though I never bothered with COPL (though I should just for Witches/Nightsisters, or just cuz), I really like Wolverton's enthusiasm for it and Star Wars.
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I feel like I've talked about this book a lot before but just addressing the interview:

    What happened was Bantam came to me and asked, “Are you interested in a Star Wars novel?” I said, “Sure, what about?” They said I could pick anything I liked in a certain timeframe. Of course I had read a few previous books, the Tim Zahn novels, and of course Han and Leia were married. I thought, “It can’t be easy for those two fiery personalities!”

    So I wanted to do something that was romantic and would bring more women into the Star Wars universe. Really, the people in power in the Star Wars universe tend to be men. I wanted to do something there; that’s how I came up with the idea of the Witches of Dathomir. It was just fun.


    As far as bringing more women into Star Wars...he was spot-on with the Witches of Dathomir. I really enjoyed seeing a matriarchal society of Force-sensitives. Their riding rancors was a bit jarring but I got over it.

    The assumption that women want a love triangle and a Fabio character, though, I could live without. I remember the Team Han/Team Luke factions from the OT days and I still cringe.

    He was right about marriage not being easy for Han and Leia, but hell, is it easy for anybody? Maybe there are those couples in which one of them is really meek and the other has a stronger personality. *shrug*

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed that we’ll see a witch of Dathomir in an upcoming movie!

    Yep, me too.

    I worked with Kevin Anderson and Kathy Tyers and some others, but I haven’t had much contact with many of the later authors. I’m just delighted people are picking up some pieces and using them in their own stories in the Star Wars universe!

    I don't remember which NJO book brought CoPL back--Balance Point maybe? Isolder was surprisingly not annoying in it. Ta'a Chume still being pissed at Leia 20 years later, and wanting to set Isolder up with Jaina, though, was just bad.

    The “contagonist”, which is what Darth Vader is called, there’s a person who works for an evil power, a dark lord who has his or her own agenda. It seemed obvious to me that Darth Vader looked at turning Luke very early on. Luke had never felt the full force of what the dark side is, at least in episodes 5 and 6. He was pulling his punches! That seemed pretty obvious to me. The idea that, “Gosh, somebody who doesn’t care for me at all who is with the dark side is trying to destroy me!” just seems sort of a logical next step in Luke’s character arc.

    Yeah, makes sense.

    At the time, I was a fairly new father with several kids. I was very interested in the fact that when my children were stressed out, they would regress! So I got to thinking about that and watching to see if adults regress too. I can see many of us do when we’re put under heavy stress. The idea of “what if Han was stressed?” kind of clicked with me. What would he regress to? Having been somebody who was a drug dealer and things like that… this kind of concerned me, because I knew I was taking him back to a dark place that we really didn’t see too much of.

    He starts off as an anti-hero. By that, what I mean is that he’s a bad guy who joins the good guys. He has a lot of skills as a gunman, as a criminal, that he brings to the Rebellion’s table. When I looked at writing this novel, I really wanted to say, “If he regressed, and he regressed back to that time, what would he do?” I just kind of looked at the crazy things people do in relationships and really see what I could get away with. That was my biggest concern when I outlined it, because I knew that there would be some people who would be like, “Oh, no, that would never happen!” There are people who don’t want to believe he was ever a criminal.

    I got a little photo that has Harrison Ford sitting by his mailbox saying “I shot first!” There’s that revisionist history where people say, “oh no, he was just defending himself!” That’s not what he was doing. He was defending himself, in advance. The whole point here is that he came from a dark side, and I wanted to go back and explore what that might have been like a little bit. Yeah, he is a little bit love crazy, he is a little bit of a stalker, a criminal. It’s just kind of taking it back to that. There’s a certain part of me that said you shouldn’t be able to always anticipate what a character is gonna do, or why they’re gonna do it. I wanted to try to layer in some motivations a little thicker and different from what people anticipated.


    He is right about kids regressing when they're stressed. And adults can do it too.

    But I can't see Han ever stalking women, even in his most notoriously hedonistic days. The attempt to kidnap Leia was just bad.

    I wanted Han to be in that kind of a relationship. He felt he just couldn’t compete. Isolder’s richer, stronger, and more handsome than him. A higher moral character… Isolder basically beat him in every way. And that’s what love is about. Love is kind of crazy. It doesn’t always make complete sense, and I wanted to show that side of it too. The idea that Han and Leia had a history, and his belief that underneath it all she really did love him, I wanted to bring that out. When you’re in love with somebody, you really know just what’s going on in their head, and wat the chemistry really is. I think I wanted Han to feel that in his gut and act on that, despite whatever rationale Leia may throw at him.

    I get what he was going for there, I just didn't like it.

    But it is true. That’s the one thing I got hit with. You can’t judge fan reaction to a certain degree. I did get a fan letter from George Lucas! You know that no matter what you write, if you take any chances at all, you’re going to get criticism, and if you don’t take any chances, you’ll also get criticism. It’s one of those things where you know you’re gonna have somebody to disagree with you somewhere. There’s gotta be at least a couple hundred million Star Wars fans, easily, and I think at least 10 of those will disagree with me!

    I definitely like his perspective and attitude here.
     
  14. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    There's a sort of sense to it (Han's characterization as explained by Wolverton), it's not completely stupid, but I don't know if I agree with it, I don't know if that's the direction that should be taken. I mean, yeah I guess Jacen could turn to the dark side post-NJO, but I'm not sure he should. Obviously the example with Jacen is so much more specious, egregious and destructive.

    Having never read COPL, I find it impossible to be in any way annoyed by Han's characterization in it.

    Still, I like Wolverton's attitude and just the way he's honest and humble in his answers.
     
  15. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Holy carp, these actually existed? I've always wondered, but pre-internet it's hard to tell.

    With a few exceptions, all of the Bantam SW authors seem pretty humble about their work. My guess would be that it's tied to the episodic nature of the era.
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Oh yeah, they did. Fan fic published in print mags in the 80s were full of it. I knew someone about 10-11 years ago who was still hard-core Team Luke and had not forgiven Lucas for making Luke and Leia siblings.

    I agree about Wolverton. He just seemed really excited to write for Star Wars.
     
  17. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Thanks for the interview! Great stuff.

    I wonder what his thoughts are, more specifically, on TCW taking only the Nightsisters and making them all uniform, no uniqueness. Ditto to who said the thing about Maul being a "Nightbrother." I much prefer the idea of the "good" witches to the Nightsisters, though they are probably both necessarily for complimentary reasons. I didn't like canon basically eliminating one-half of the pair.

    Also, he put my complaint (and many others' complaint) about the Han/Greedo scene much better than I ever have... He captured perfectly what that scene originally was conveying. Changing him to shoot second totally upsets the character arc of Han. You're supposed to think he is just a money-driven gun-for-hire with no moral barometer at that point.
     
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  18. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I can't believe its not butter.

    Interesting interview. Han could've been a heavy drinker and it fueld his othello sybdrome. Lucas may of liked the idea of a broken marriage as he went through a few himself or any case estranged relationships and Anakin and Padme always had some conflict going on and off in the movies or series. I never really came across anybody that didnt already know that Han was an outlaw and smuggler type and it seemed like the Rebel Alliance took whatever help they could get even mercenary as they paid him his reward. In the movies it was clear he was hot tempered and self centered but with a heart of gold. He had a conscious behind all the gruff exterior and a loyalty to his friends. He was jealous of Luke, and Luke of Han as there was a competition for Leia's affection starting in ANH. Han didnt find out Luke was her brother until basically end of ROTJ and which which was only really after Leia found out. Han also didnt care for Lando trying to smooth talk Leia not that she fell for the phony charm but Lando was a con artist and criminal himself(gambler ect).
     
  19. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Rew likes this.
  20. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Holy thread revival.
     
  21. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Blame Yahoo! for putting it on the front page tonight. ;)
     
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, COPL is pretty wacky. If you ignore the really stupid premise and the character assassination though, it's a lot of fun. Consequently I'm still pretty fond of it, despite the terribleness.

    However, the worst thing the Expanded Universe ever did to Princess Leia? That is patently false.
     
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  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    still it's a pretty funny rage-read, I haven't read the book since, well, I got the Hardcover 20 years ago so it's a fun recap.
     
  24. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Most of those were one-and-done, for-hire projects as an aside to authors' original work--as opposed to the stable of regulars that developed in the '00s with the plus and minuses that entailed--so I think the authors were a lot less ... shall we say ... invested and insular some of those regulars became.

    Plus, taking on what was essentially a random tie-in novel in the early to mid '90s, with little expectation it would amount to anything long-term, is a much more relaxed project than jumping into the deep end in 2000 or 2005, where every story has permanent consequences as well as antecedents to be considered, and with rabid fans always on their case and putting them on the defensive in every interaction. (The easy access to authors that the Internet provides is overwhelmingly a boon, and I certainly wouldn't trade it for the olden days, but sometimes that does lead to interactions becoming more personal and stressful than in the days when your closest degree of contact was an interview in the Insider.)
     
  25. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Oh wow, I only just read this. I guess I have to thank anakinfansince1983 for my new signature, 1-year-delay notwithstanding [face_love]