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Lit LitBoard: Torches and Forks..

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    If they smell money, expect these to be made into CGI movies soon.

    Episode VII, I'm calling it now, will be decades after the OT.
     
  2. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    I of course agree with you here and thx for your kind words, my friend. I really need you putting me into perspective right now. thx for that!

    For me Star Wars is not "all is fact" but rather Star Wars is like Myth with all its contradictions and alternate tales.
    think of it as King Arthur in all story variations that exist. Like History books SW is contradictory and not all is the true events that we never might know. But every tale has a small part of truth in it. then again SW tales are made for kids, youths or adults and as such need to be interpreted according to these readerlevels. Only because no blood was spilled in a kids history book does not mean there was never blood spilled. 3 droids as Jedi enemies in kids book equal 30 in adult book and such.
    the true event is unknown, only retelling of "a long time ago, far far away" is what every SW tale is for me.

    still, I do see less contradictions than other fans and enjoy retconning and making things fit as you all know.

    For a long time I even have advocated a yearlong break in SW production for fans to catch up, in depth analyse what they got and own and all that instead of industry churning out more and more stuff to get our money, which is killing me financially already enough.

    So I'd be not opposed to the EU to end, not opposed to paralell universes and not to a lot of other variants either.

    What I just want is to KNOW how it will go on, and honestly be told that, without marketing and money in the minds of those telling us to keep us along the ride a little while longer.

    so in short.. I can live with a lot of solutions to the future of Star Wars. so long they be honest and respectful. We had some decisions in the past that were not as respectful which is why I fear for the future.
     
  3. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Well, if I am a Wookieepedian, that's because I consider myself a Star Wars "scholar." It may sound silly, you may think I have no real life, but things are just like that. I like continuity and clever retcons when they are necessary.

    Just like CeiranHarmony, I think that trend of dismissal of the EU started with TCW is both unfair and ungrateful. Even if many of us were never interested by the EU to begin with, it has kept Star Wars alive when there were no movies. Star Wars is more, much more than six movies, darn it! Talented authors have been telling stories for more than twenty years, and I say they should be treated with more respect. Respect does not mean money, that means accepting their contribution to the universe as valid and legit.
     
    LawgSkrak, lukemaraben and KamSolusar like this.
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Lucas said in the video that he's recommending they use the books and comics, in addition to his own outlines for 7-9, when making the Sequel Trilogy.
     
    RC-1991 and CeiranHarmony like this.
  5. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Might I suggest a new hobby? Something relaxing. Ships in bottles, perhaps. Or stamp collecting.
     
  6. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    What I do wonder now though is... IF they respect the EU and feature it in upcoming tv and movie stuff... who will play my favourite characters? AAAAAHH I need to find a Zen master to teach me patience...

    I hope they will not pick cosplayers as actors :p well excluding some I know that would rock the show
     
  7. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Thanks,

    I think what happens will depend largely on how they handle Episode VII. If they aren't planning on doing a CGI series with Luke, Han, and Leia recast then most likely the next movie will be set after the original movies by some decades. This may have an impact on Legacy and/or Jacen, Jaina, and the NJO.

    However, it's really going to depend on the script.
     
  8. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004

    use or abuse like TCW?
     
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  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    If it follows the path of Star Trek's secondary material - then, yes, essentially, it is fan fiction. And there's plenty for free right here at tf.n if I wanted to read that.

    Fair enough - but here's mine. Han and Greedo? The change that Lucas made was stupid, absurd, illogical, and so on. I absolutely hate, hate, hate it.

    But you know what? It's what happened. I may come down on Lucas, but if he says that's how it played out, then so be it. And anyone writing a book, or making a game, or comic set in Star Wars would have to honor that as well.

    There's always going to be parts I don't like. If they become overwhelming, I'll move on. Otherwise, I'm still here.
     
  10. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Thanks C_H,

    I think what happens will depend largely on how they handle Episode VII. If they aren't planning on doing a CGI series with Luke, Han, and Leia recast then most likely the next movie will be set after the original movies by some decades. This may have an impact on Legacy and/or Jacen, Jaina, and the NJO.

    However, it's really going to depend on the script.

    Episode VII could start with, "It is one hundred years after Luke Skywalker defeated Darth Vader and his great grandson is becoming a Jedi Knight but the Oggie-boogies from the distant Star Night Nebula are coming."
     
  11. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Only if they first change the author and let either Zahn or Luceno write the grand finale. :p
     
  12. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Well said. They claimed they picked elements from the EU "to please the fans", but I'm not sure how you could please anyone by using characters/events/things they like and twisting them so they are portrayed or used differently. You can't have it both ways--you've got to use them exactly as they are or not use them.
     
  13. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I've been a fan since the late 90's. I hope the books and comics that have come out since then are steamrolled over. Regardless I will be giving Disney a chance. It's Star Wars so I should like it
     
  14. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Like we don't all know what the first expansion pack will be about ;)
     
  15. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Both a double post and a potentially de-railing post in one. I'm really out of it today...
     
  16. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I've been a fan since the late 90's. I hope the books and comics that have come out since then are steamrolled over. Regardless I will be giving Disney a chance. It's Star Wars so I should like it
     
  17. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Waru?

    (seriously, if canon is going out the window, BioWare just got handed a free-for-all lifeline to do as they please :p)
     
  18. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    And Bioware using Waru in TOR would effect the Star Wars timeline negatively before the Disney sale how, exactly? ;)

    I say more Waru backstory is damn near required for anything resembling a coherent timeline.
     
  19. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    as for Sequels.. I too hope it is not about Luke and folks since George Lucas original Sequel ideas were pressed into ROTJ already and all others are thus rendered unlikely without going against ROTJ.

    basically it either is a "decades after ROTJ" scenario.. or they overwrite the EU not directly but twist it a bit by placing a Sequel trilogy somewhere in between.

    I wonder if they use EU characters at all since they prefer fresh ones I bet and explaining movie absence during important events for such characters will be difficult too then given how many EU characters are important figures galaxywide. I'd love to see Jaina, Tenel Ka and Tahiri on screen if cast right and not just with painted on fakemuscles died hair and all. But only if done right. And how could they use Jaina without somehow explaining what happened to her brothers and where did she come from? they might use Ben Skywalker.. but even that I doubt. Allana too.
    If the EU keeps all EU players offscreen involved in important events so the movies are free to use fresh cast, that would be great. but it would mean it is not a Skywalker Saga anymore. and how would they introduce Luke's kids without references to their mother and how she died?

    more Sith after ROTJ in Sequels? the EU did it already but how'd that work with the Choosen One prophecy, Mortis, Abeloth and all that? They need to be unique, not redo ideas the EU had already done. So I wonder.. what will it be?

    alien invasion... already done
    ressurected Emperor... already done
    great non-forceuser Imperial holdout foes... already done
    new superweapons... done
    Skywalker offspring/Solo offspring... done
    Offspring/Luke going dark... done

    Essentially for it to be Sequels they either HAVE to overwrite the EU or they have to go to the distant future where Luke is an old man and Ben and folks are already having children of their own so those are the heroes and not the current EU generation. Still sthat smells of the popular theme of parentless kids turn hero... meaning no good fate for our EU characters that need to either do nothing which is unlike them upon a threat emerging, or be dead. which already was trouble with LEGACY comics being set too early after novels.. if a movie sequel trilogy is in between those then it'd be even more chaos death and whereabout-wise.

    hmm... speculations speculations... spekulatius.. yummy
     
  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Waru is a Shoggoth.

    No, seriously.
     
  21. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004

    tried that once... bottles broke and stamps worked fine for a while. then I found they can be used to show my collection to a girl... now I am married and I have no more use for stamps :p
     
  22. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Not even close to one, Charles... :p
     
  23. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Stamps are boring. If you collect something. It should be hardcore. Something like human index fingers. Of course, they rarely get good resell value...
     
  24. CaptainPeabody

    CaptainPeabody Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Am I the only one that really wants them to try to retcon everything into one massive continuity? Retcons are one of my favorite parts of the EU. They're like a massive puzzle, and they remind me of doing actual historiography...only much sillier and more ridiculous, of course. I'd be really annoyed if they made the EU either not exist altogether or made it a parallel universe. I HATE parallel universes; I think they're lame cop-outs and suck as story-telling devices because they suck all drama out of stories. I can live with the Star Trek one because, well, Star Trek's had them for a while, and there's more to it than just that, but I would hate it if Star Wars went that route. My hope is that they have a sequel trilogy that can fit in with the continuity we have...and I wouldn't mourn too much if LotF got retconned out of existence.
     
  25. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Unless Luke wakes up in Episode 7 and tells the others "I just had the craziest dream." Honestly if they retcon DNT/LOTF/FOTJ out of existence I wouldn't mind.
     
  26. Blithe

    Blithe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2003
    This only encourages me and makes me feel more justified to tease you every time you make some obscure DC reference. :D

    Even so, didn't we already have a certain amount of pruning in effect to begin with? Glove of Darth Vader, for instance, was excised from c-canon and downgraded to s-canon or something years ago as I recall. I mean, I have similar sentiments about your top ten list myself, but I'm not sure if their existence necessarily mandates a full-on fleecing of the flock kind of approach. Don't get me wrong; I'm not going to feel personally offended if we see some kind of reboot. I don't feel as if I have that much skin in the game. My main concern would be that whatever course Disney decides to take with the series, it should either incorporate the prior material or start from a blank slate altogether. If they take the approach that they can use prior material as a giant reference repository for ideas, planets, characters, species, factions, etc, but not give any regard to the established backstories or events is a bit on the disrespectful side, and quite possibly even just lazy.

    Sure we have very little idea of what direction they're going to take things or what approach they'll use. There's little doubt that concerns over profits are going to take precedence over someone's geeky infatuation with a franchise. I can't say that I blame them, not one bit. That being said, it's not as if it takes a lot of work to get a basic idea of how to avoid running rough-shod over prior stories. The Essential Chronology, Essential Guide to Characters, and a few cursory glances at wookieepedia could alleviate most of the potential problems.
     
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  27. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    If it throws out significant chunks of the story, it'll have a hell of a time keeping me invested.
     
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  28. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    I just wrote what might possible be the fastest 2,000 words of my life (seriously, like 15 minutes, freaky) regarding a series of potential outcomes that could spring from new movies depending on certain broad choices the Disney/Lucasfilm may choose to make. The link's in my sig.

    Essentially, my reaction depends on which of those paths are taken. My vote is strongly behind the Post-Crucible Scenario, but I could settle for an adaptation or even a rewrite that invalidates some select portion of the timeframe but not everything. I could probably take the loss of everything 25 ABY and post and stay interested in Star Wars (never liked the NJO anyway), though it would be a diminishment.

    A full on reboot would dump me from the fandom. I like Star Wars in large part because of its vastness, because I can do stuff within it that tells fun stories and feeds my own interests. I also think a reboot is flagrantly foolish, stacking three new movies agaisnt the weight of the EU is inherently unbalanced, how can that be a win? Too many people have too much money invested in the existing EU, that's a lot of bridges to burn on Disney's part. A certain amount of pruning in one thing. I'll stack TCW against one small comic series all day, but against two and a half decades worth of content, including ongoing content (TOR!), no, not doing that.
     
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