Lit LitBoard: Torches and Forks..

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I'll still buy stuff from my favorite authors. But I will no longer support massive series runs. I certainly hope the era of Dawn of the Jedi and Knights of the Old Republic is safe even if Heir to the Empire through Legacy is likely ready to be nuked. I am a bit depressed to know characters like Mara Jade, Ben Skywalker and the Solo kids are all likely to be erased, but we'll see what the final product is.
  2. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    I think the possible solution I like best concerning the Expanded Universe is to declare it (or at least all the post-Endor stuff) its own alternate universe, where its continuity is canon. That way the material would remain canon in a way, and the new movies would have a blank slate to work with. Del Rey could use the time until 2015 to satisfyingly tie up the various post-Endor storylines, and begin progressively shifting its resources to the new movies continuity so as to hit the ground running with new novels set in that continuity once Ep VII has hit theaters. Is there anyone else who would be satisfied with this solution?

    For myself, I'm taking a wait-and-see position on post-Endor material up until the EU's canon situation has been clarified and focusing my time (and money) on material that is chronologically distant from the movies and their follow-up eras. So I'm even more looking forward to Annihilation than I was a week ago.
    _Catherine_ likes this.
  3. LawgSkrak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 1999
    star 4
    No no no!!! Just make everything fit. It's not that freaking hard a thing to do. There is no reason the EU needs to be destroyed. Screw alternate realities. This isn't Star Trek!
  4. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Personally, I think it'd be hilarious to release retconned sequel trilogy novels that fit the films' events into the EU alternate universe. :p

    Never going to happen, but I'd just find it amusing to see the films get a taste of their own medicine for once. :p
  5. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Isn’t that what Cloak of Deception basically was? ;)
  6. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    Isn't that what EU has done since TPM?
  7. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Given their popularity with fans, I can see them being integrated into newer works or reboot.
  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    People still feel that the ending ruined the entire franchise? Meh, I guess all I can do is vehemently disagree. Hell, perhaps I've indoctrinated, but I've come to enjoy the Control ending (though maybe it's because of the beautiful musical score).
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 2, 2012
  9. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    I really don't see how everything can be made to fit. IMO, the Thrawn Trilogy is the linchpin of the post-Endor EU, the root from which nearly everything else in that era eventually grew. If the Thrawn Trilogy is contradicted by the new movies, then the great majority of the rest of the post-Endor EU continuity will fall like dominos. In order to preserve EU continuity as we know it in the new movies' continuity, it seems to me that the only possible solution would have been to adapt the Thrawn Trilogy into movies and thus basically make it episodes 7-9 - and the powers that be have already let it be known they would not be doing that.
  10. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    It is completely unnecessary to reference EU events that take place prior to these new films expect in a most broad and vague way possible.

    We've actually all been through this before - with the NJO.

    The New Jedi Order novels were launched with in 26 ABY, with a seven year time gap from any previous EU material to that point. It was deliberately designed that you could jump into them having never known what had come before. Sure the novels make various references to pieces of the Bantam Era, especially on the margins, but you could totally understand them with only a say a one paragraph understanding of what happened in the Bantam Era (the Empire fractured, the Rebels turned into the New Republic, beat it, took power, and made piece with the leftovers, Luke rebuilt the Jedi order).

    New movies, whether set in 25 ABY or 50 ABY - the two logical points - can do something similar. Yes they will inevitably contain their own bckground material that won't match with existing EU material and will require some torturous retconning, but the EU could be preserved.

    I strongly think that at the very least the New Republic Era will remain more or less intact. Even disregarding the EU's value entirely there's three extremely good reasons not to go there:

    1. You really don't want to recast Han, Luke, Leia, and Lando, at any thing resembling their ROTJ ages, you just don't. The recasting of Vader was bad enough, and that was a man in a suit without any visible features. The Obi-Wan recasting worked, yes, but that was a pratically a miracle and it was a much younger man. Can you see Ewan McGregor playing Obi-Wan's Force Ghost in Episode VII?

    2. You don't want to fight the Empire all over again. ROTJ brought victory over the Empire. The Bantam Era is the story of how that victory unfolded, it was never in doubt that triumph would eventually be secured. Thrawn rallies the Empire, but is defeated, Reborn Palpatine rallies the Empire, but is defeated, Daala goes all Imperial terrorist, but is defeated, and so on. It's a reduced struggle that exists int he shadow of the original films. That's perfect for the EU but a bad plan if you're trying to make new movies that are bigger, better and badder.

    3. You don't want to re-use any original trilogy designs. One key thing - the PT and OT are seperated by only about twenty years. That's a small enough time gap that there was no need for massive technological change. The Republic could have easily fought the Separatists with Star Destroyers and TIE fighters, but they didn't. Even the Clone Armor is subtly different from Stormtrooper armor. This new ST should also have a new, completely different design aesthetic. Creative reasons impell such a change, but so do merchandising ones. It's a chance to increase by 33% the amount of new action figures, Legos, and models you can sell. So the good guys and bad guys should both have new ship designs that at most vaguely reference the old ones ARC-170 style.
  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Interesting point about the merchandising, @Mechalich

    I hadn't thought of that, but that's a very good observation.
    I'm listening to that very score right now. :)

    The EU could use my fleet of Shepards to put things right right now...
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 2, 2012
    instantdeath likes this.
  12. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 2
    If we only had to deal with a series of new movies, then the amount of new background material would be limited and I agree that it could probably be made to fit with the EU, albeit with some/a lot of retcon gymnastics. But we certainly won't be getting just new movies. New novels, comics sourcebooks, etc. and other sources of material set in the new movies' continuity will inevitably be published. IMO, all that new material will also inevitably compete with the EU's version of events during specific periods, requiring more and more convoluted explanations/retcons, or directly contradict the EU.

    The NJO might have been crafted so that new readers could jump in without extensive knowledge of the EU, but the NJO was also a direct continuation of the EU up until the NJO's beginning. In the NJO, the Thrawn Trilogy, the X-Wing series, and everything in the post-Endor timeline up until the NJO's beginning was taken into account, sometimes by the very authors who had written that material. I very much doubt that the screenwriters of the new movies will be anywhere near as knowledgeable/interested at fitting EU material into their scripts.

    And speaking of the post-Endor EU characters, in 25 ABY, how would you explain the very possible absence of Jaina, Jacen, Anakin, Mara, Tenel Ka, etc. in the new movies? How would you explain entirely different new movie characters occupying their positions, another possibility? We've been told that episode 7 would be an "original story." To me, this means its connection with the EU will most likely be tenuous at best no matter what time period ep 7 is set in, and it will only get worse as new material is published.

    It's been difficult enough to keep things relatively straight/plausible even with what is supposed to be just one continuity and the various creators generally trying to avoid stepping on each other's toes. With all the new material from the new movies and the novels, comics etc. derived from them, I just can't envision post-publication efforts to keep everything in a single continuity being successful. And would you want to go on buying new EU material knowing that there's always a sword of Damocles hanging over your head, that someday some new major event set in the new movies' continuity might prove completely impossible to reconcile with the EU and derail the whole thing? I know I wouldn't.

    Simply put, I believe that, even if it is manageable at first, the sheer amount of new material in the new movies' continuity will eventually inevitably make coexistence with the EU impossible. Much better IMO to have a clean break and two distinct continuities.

    (Btw, I hope I'm not coming across as rude. I appreciate that you made the effort to clearly articulate your position, and I hope I did the same with mine. :))
  13. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Am I the only one who doesn't get what the big deal is?

    I am so excited that there will be new movies, it's like star wars is being revitalised, and so much cool new EU can come from this.

    Who cares if some of the old EU get made "non-canon" or whatever, its up to you to decide if it happened or not and saying you'll throw out your collection because some guy decides they aren't entirely "canon" seems utterly insane.

    And I have read every EU book, most about 3 or 4 times (srs)
  14. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Well, after how the prequels turned out, a lot of people (including myself) are bracing for the worse, especially as there are various ways a post-RotJ Episode VII could turn out. There are moments where a movie could fit it, but it depends on whether they care enough to be careful or just want to make something new. At least with the prequels, pre-ANH was mostly a blank slate (outside of a few Han Solo or Lando adventures and general Dark Times stories), but post-RotJ has a lot of stuff already.

    And yes, ME3 is still somewhat a good game (but then I'm also not the largest Bioware fan too), but its notable that they came out with an Extended Cut pretty quickly, so there were problems. Also it was the end of a trilogy, whereas a lot of those other third movies were unnecessary sequels (Spiderman, Terminator, Batman, X-men... well, maybe not X-men but heard it turned out pretty badly anyway) so their addition to already completed stories just hurt things. ME1 and 2 still are great, its just disappointing knowing Bioware didn't fulfill the potential of their trilogy, which was always intended to be multiple parts (which is why something like Lord of the Rings worked so well, as it was always a trilogy, and being based on a fantasy masterpiece of course).

    Even if Disney doesn't do a thing but just sign checks, I'm not too sure about Lucasfilm anyway if they want to tell their own post-RotJ story (since they've treated the earlier Clone Wars material with such respect :p). Lucas was the source of a lot of strange ideas, but probably not everything, and sometimes they just come up with odd ideas that screw with things that were already stable, sometimes due to EU explanations (like retconning Bail Organa's ship in Episode III into being the Sundered Heart, a ship from a somewhat minor Star Wars game, instead of a pre-upgrade Tantive IV).