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CT Little Things in the OT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Snax Rebo, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Unbelievable, how iconic models or other things are carelessly destroyed or "disappear" otherwise. The model couldn't have been that large. Lucas or someone on the crew could easily have stored it in the garage or something and made a fortune selling it to a fan later. I think this is something that happened in Aliens as well. They didn't keep the original Narcissus model from the first film so had to reconstruct it from one of those "Making of..." books, could have been "The Book of Alien" which I also bought back then. Apparently even the blueprints were destroyed, really strange. Of course I can understand about the sets, they take up lots of space, but for those smaller models, it seems such a waste to me....
    So you had that Panini album as well :D! In fact that was, along with the soundtrack tape and a few action figures, the first SW item I had, no wait, the very first one was that 1977 booklet they sold right at the movie theater and was not available elsewhere. Great observation! In fact your first option is the correct one. I wasn't even aware that sticker album was available in just those two countries. I know the publishing company is Italian, but thought it would be widely available elsewhere too, in the respective translations of course. Sadly I can't find my copy anymore, I probably must have given it to my son at some point.
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    It may have survived:

    http://www.starwars.com/news/saving-the-death-star-how-the-original-model-was-lost-and-found
     
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  3. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    That is an awesome story. My wife would not allow such a thing in our house. :p
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In the magazine The Art of Film: The VFX Masters Volume 4, the Death Star is discussed (they mention they couldn't use the original because this private collector has it) - and how the Rogue One film crew had to change it just a little bit - to give it more surface detail, to make it spherical when the original one wasn't (slightly flattened), and so forth.
     
  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Iron_lord

    Thanks for the heads-up. IIRC the story of its loss was published in one of Rinzler's Making of books. Perhaps he didn't know the story of its survival and retrieval.

    [​IMG]

    Yes, because it's a sphere it's rather easy to notice that it's wider at the equator. I for one would have rather liked the RO Death Star to feature the same proportions as the original model.
     
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  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    They probably thought the flattening was a little ugly - and that, for the eclipsing scene, a perfectly spherical Death Star was more striking.
     
  7. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    It always looked perfectly spherical in ANH to me.
     
  8. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Appearances can be deceiving, all the screencaps in ANH with good (close-up) visibility of the entire Death Star reveal a sphere that's wider at the equator than the diameter between the poles. But perhaps that explains the discrepancies in size figures, i.e. it's 160 km wide at the equator but only 120 km measured from pole to pole. ;)
     
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  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It's not that flattened. This guy's analysis of the DS1, starting from a 22.5m wide Falcon:

    http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarsizes.html

    ended up with 120 km high, 130 km wide.

    Using the upscaled TFA Falcon (about 28m wide or so) turns the 130km into 160km - which very neatly fits.
     
  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    What an unnecessary and convoluted approach to determine the accurate diameter. :rolleyes:

    The ILM model makers (following an original, erroneous size indication) clarifed for an issue of the official Star wars Fan Club magazine Bantha Tracks already back in the 1970's that the diameter of the Death Star was "100+ miles".
    Calculating the dimensions of Bay 327 (based on the life-size Falcon) in relation to the matte painting (to determine the height of the equator trench) and then comparing that with a high-res image of the Death Star VFX model yields the exact same result, so it's redundant and unnecessary to use a "bigger" Falcon to arrive at the accurate diameter.
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That's not the result he got though.

    The point I was making is that the new Falcon, combined with his methods, yields the right diameter - suggesting that his method is probably reasonably good in the context of the newcanon.
     
  12. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Pardon the pun, but there are many results the author didn't get right (e.g. diameter of second Death Star), because - while he almost accurately determined the heights of the Death Star equatorial trenches - he never put these in relation to any high-res images of the equatorial trenches of any of the whole Death Star VFX models, i.e. his method was flawed because he screwed up the final but decisive last calculation to arrive at an accurate result.
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    All this work was done a while back (maybe a decade or so) - weren't Blu-ray's in their infancy back then?

    And he recognised the problem:

    On the other hand, one wishes to make as few 'hops' as possible in such a scaling, since the opportunity for small errors of rounding or pixel count increase with each step in the procedure.
    Thus, it would be preferable to confirm ourselves via another step or two between the trench and the whole Death Star, just to check out those 7 pixels.

    He did use "whole models" - but with the limited resolution, the figures wouldn't be perfectly exact.

    Full DS1 image (pixels)
    Trench height - 7 pixels
    Equatorial band 52 pixels
    DS1 height - 660 pixels

    His version of DS1, (converting from pixels to metres and kilometres):

    Bay height - 17.55m
    Trench height - 1.23 km
    Equatorial band - 9.92km
    DS1 width (averaging methods) - 130km (height 120km)

    Multiplying all these by 1.23 gives us:

    Bay height: 21.6 m
    Trench height: 1.51 km
    Equatorial band 12.2 km
    DS1 width - 160km (height 147.7 km)

    It'll be interesting to see how these compare to Rogue One - which reshapes the DS1 slightly, to a perfect sphere.

    Is the Rogue One Death Star, compatible with the TFA Falcon?
     
  14. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Iron_lord

    Even the Blu-rays don't have sufficient resolution when it comes to attempting the accurate size of the Death Stars. I relied entirely on high-res images published in various books over the years and arrived at 100+ miles for DS I and approx. 290 km for DS II.

    Is the Rogue One Death Star, compatible with the TFA Falcon?

    The question that's foremost on my mind is whether the equatorial section we saw in RO is compatible with the one established by the matte painting in ANH, IIRC then I'm afraid it features the same area (i.e. below the superweapon dish to the right). :(
     
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Rogue One Death Star trench shows considerable variety in hangar bay type and location:


    when compared to the OT

    but the features are still recognisable - same tall "buttresses" above and below the central set of bays.

    As for the height of the trench compared to the height of the Death Star itself - it's best measured at the horizon:

    http://cdn3.thr.com/sites/default/files/2016/04/an1-ff-001.jpg

    since if measured in the centre of the Death Star - it's wider - the Death Star, being spherical, is going to have its "centre" closer than its core, and thus, perspective will cause the trench to appear wider relative to the Death Star than it actually is.
     
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  16. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2015
    I think our heroes literally get captured/go into custody at least 6 times in ROTJ:

    Jabba's palace

    Scout Biker momentarily captures Leia

    Endor crew gets captured by the Ewoks

    Luke surrenders himself

    Endor crew gets captured by Empire

    Leia/Han momentarily captured in front of the bunker.



    Really, the stormtroopers would have done much better to just shoot the rebels instead of capturing them over and over :)
     
  17. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Little R2 left out in the rain, peeking through Yoda's window:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Obi-Wan reacting to Luke saying his name for the first time. It's not just an emotional response to hearing his name for the first time in decades, but also recognition that there's no turning back now. It's time to take Luke under his wing.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. JawaShuffle

    JawaShuffle Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Never noticed this!!! Just saw the pic referencing this- will pay close attention next time I watch RotJ!

    I've always love the 'worn out' look of everything- it's all used and dirty. That's what made it so real for me growing up; from the costumes through to the hi-tech equipment.
     
  20. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jul 29, 2016
    How when Threepio says, "I'm not much more than an interpreter and not very good at telling stories", it foreshadows that he will tell the story of the heroes to the Ewoks much later.
     
  21. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    ^ I always found this one somewhat irritating, because in ROJ he shows that he is rather good at telling stories and even features sound effects.

    Either he was downplaying his abilities as a possible part of his 'security' programming (in the presence of Luke he also referred to the princess just as a "passenger", although he said earlier to Artoo "There'll be no escape for the princess this time") or Luke got so annoyed with that particular inability that he reprogrammed Threepio. ;)
     
  22. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Another possibility is that Threepio simply lacked confidence with such things as storytelling. Up to that point he perhaps did not have much personal interaction with humans - his owners just gave him instructions and told him to get on with things - so he did not have human 'friends'. But when he meets Luke he gets to develop those skills more and by the time of ROTJ he has had more time to become creative. He may have been able to tell good stories all along but he never got much chance since many people may have reacted to him like Han does - telling him to be quiet all the time.
     
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  23. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016

    Perhaps one of the protocols that Threepio was instructed to use was to not to open his mouth and reveal everything about the princess to just anybody.

    Threepio is of course not very good at this as he lets slip about the rebellion, although he does not directly implicate the princess. He only admits to serving Captain Antilles.
     
  24. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    ^ One could almost assume that Threepio hoped to be sold to the Imperial governor of Tatooine because of his information about the rebellion... :p
     
  25. Gonk Droid

    Gonk Droid Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 7, 2017
    Ooops double post