main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Ghost in the Shell

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lord Vivec, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I think there's enough differentiation between the two titles, that really shouldn't be problem. Besides, based on what I've read this isn't going to be so much a straight adaption of the film, though there are obviously two scenes in the trailer that come directly from the original film, but will be more of an amalgamation of several things in the franchise. For instance....
    Kuze apparently being in the film, though I'd argue that the Laughing Man or the Puppet Master would be more interesting and complex characters to use. Thought I guess they could start a story line in this with the intent to have future installments, but that seems kind of risky IMO.
    Good point, haven't seen it in a long time and had forgotten that but wasn't there a remark to it that the other versions were in some way inferior? I knew that there were only certain sections that had access to it.

    However, was there anyone else on the team that used the tech besides Kusanagi?
     
  2. DenOfEarth

    DenOfEarth Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    How about Takashi Miike do live-action Ninja Scroll?
     
  3. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I caught the dub tonight, and seeing it on the big screen was a memorable experience. I was kind of ragged when I went and saw it, so it felt longer than it should have (that and the inordinate about of previews, for a limited run) but I'm glad I went. I enjoyed it all, and was fairly happy I saw the dub rather than the sub version just for ease of viewing primarily.

    My theater had zero chatter after the film, but that was kind of expected IMO since there was a grand total of maybe 20 people in the theater.
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Not that I recall.
     
  5. DenOfEarth

    DenOfEarth Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Who agrees Miike would be perfect for live-action Ninja Scroll or maybe have Luc Besson do Cowboy Bebop?
     
  6. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    New trailer.


    Other than the obvious homages to the original film (chase scene and tank battle) seems like this is a hugely different plot from the original anime film.
     
    soitscometothis likes this.
  7. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Regardless if you have seen the original anime this new trailer gives away too much. However, perhaps if you watch it without sound it'll be ok. It looks great.
     
  8. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    That's a good point, this latest trailer seems to pretty much give away a good portion of what the plot seems to be.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It definitely has less of a "what is the Matrix?"-type mystery to it (but, then, even the actual Matrix abandoned that for its final trailer/marketing) but it's interesting how much is from the original film while still focusing on a different plotline.

    Though, the line about not being able to control her seems at odds with the Major's comments in the original film on how, while they could walk away, they'd be handing over their upgraded parts and access to the needed maintenance which is why they feel they have to stay.
     
  10. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Her comments were that she couldn't leave section 9 legally because there was so little of her left that she wouldn't survive but ultimately she could and did leave unofficially.

    I wouldn't say the trailer really gives away anymore than the earlier one that obviously hinted at section 9 or someone behind them deceiving her about her history, it just makes it a bit more obvious. Not read the manga and I'v only seen a little of the stand alone complete series but the films did tend to have section 9 portrayed as not obviously the "good guys" if not open antagonists although I'd imagine this film it won't be the whole organisation but rather the official we see calling for her killing and potentially Beat/Aramaki(although that seems unclear) filling that role.

    Visually I am definitely warming to the look of it, you could say its a little unoriginal trying to copy the look of the first film somewhat but actually I think this gives quite an original visual style beyond your typical Hollywood dystopia look that's neither Blade Runner style rain/shadow/grit or Apple style soulless slickness. Obviously there is still a lot of the first there but I think with a more colourful and slightly larger than life look as well more akin to say the Fifth Element.

    Granted it looks rather more conventional than either of the films plot/character wise but I am looking forward to a big budget blockbuster than can actually have a good degree of dramatic depth to it in a way most of the Marvel style formula offerings we see cannot.
     
  11. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Sorry didn't see this response, forgive the back to back posting.

    I think your first point is really just echoing what I was saying, in the first film the disconnection the major has from her own body is I think supposed to be a bit uncomfortable for the viewer rather than her, plus of course beyond her lack of modesty we clearly see she isn't fully human with no sexual organs and that thicker canvas like skin on much of her body to support the thermoptics(which I believe Oshii invented, thermoptics were a suit in the manga) plus obviously the scene with the tank where she rips herself apart. Again I think you see Batu covering her up after the chase or not looking at her change on the boat showing that whether due to friendship or underlying romance he still likes to think of her as more human.

    On a similar note all of the "whitewashing" fuss seemed pretty badly misdirected in this case(not that it isn't an issue in Hollywood overall), you look at Oshii's film and Johansson actually looks incredibly similar to the major. For one thing of course theres no reason the major would need to look Japanese given that her body is prosthetic but I think Oshii also clearly had her look like a westernised shop mannequin(you even see her looking closely at some during that montage sequence on the boat as well as another woman with the same body as her) to play up the idea of depersonalisation along some ideal mass produced standard of beauty. The same people pushing Rinko Kikuchi's character from Pacific Rim as some ideal of Hollywood cultural understanding was pretty silly as well IMHO, granted I enjoyed that film as a run thrill ride but she's such a clichéd western view of the Japanese kawaii girl.

    Indeed I never really viewed the story(unlike say Akira) as being essentially "Japanese", perhaps with the original manga the setting played into Japan as the perceived centre of such scientific developments but I would argue this was already on the wane by the time of Oshii's films which for me(especially the 2nd) feel much more like there set in a future Hong Kong or Shanghai than a future Tokyo.
     
  12. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    You're missing the point I was making. You're thinking only in physical terms, when in fact Kusanagi had pretty much transcended the physical plane of existence. To that end, the physical existence no longer matters to her. Her merging with the Puppet Master in the film allowed her to further go beyond that evidenced by the end of the film, which is kind of expounded on in Innocence where it's alluded to that she's pretty much shed her physical existence all together. And again, I already covered by Batou covered her up. He values the physical more than she does, which is a contrast to her, and his obvious respect for her. So we agree on why Batou does it, but the disconnect is viewing Kusanagi as something only physical, when she's kind of already past the physical realm of existence.
    IIRC, there was an explanation in one of the books detailing the characters that Batou at one point wasn't even Japanese but in fact American and had worked with/for the CIA at one point in his career. As to Kusanagi, that goes beyond Oshii to the original manga creator Masamune Shirow who wanted to her to be based on a mass production model to begin with. I believe Oshii chose to make her physical appear younger in the movie. The Arise series of OVA's had her appear significantly younger.

    In regards to Rinko Kikuchi, I haven't seen her in anything other that Pacific Rim which I think her character was terribly written. Though, I also had a lot of issues with that film in general and inconsistent portrayal of Mako is really only one issue I had.
    Japan has been at the front of technological development for some time, and the still kind of are. I'd argue that they're still more so than China. The city the stories are set in, really aren't important. It's more so about the themes. Though it should also be mentioned that businesses have locations in different areas of the world for various reasons, and while it's been awhile since I have seen Innocence, I think that's a theme that is touched upon in that film.
     
  13. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Again I think its the same point, the disconnection is as you say not purely physical(although that's playe dup more latter in the film) but is partly displayed in a physical sense. I was responding to a post that seemed to be saying the nudity was exploitive hence mentioning this aspect, you could argue its taking an aspect of the genre that is often more exploitive and bending it and expectations to its own ends.

    Looking at some of the frames if the Manga I think Oshii made her older in appearance not younger.

    Again I found the film reasonably enjoyable fluff but as an example of Hollywood showing cultural understanding of Japan? Not for me and it came across as pretty cheap "diversity by casting". I just think the whole issue was an example of media talking heads and others badly wanting to be offended by something they really didn't understand at all.

    I'd agree in many respects Japan is still at the forefront although not to the degree it was 20-30 years ago and most importantly the perception that its in that position has dropped off a lot, especially when it comes to the internet where Japan is viewed by many as a bit of a holdout.

    I suspect that's part of why the setting of Oshii's films became a bit more non specific although I think mixing in some Hong Kong did help in terms of cross boarder business issues and of course the general grime.
     
  14. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    It isn't the same point. You thought the point of the nudity was to make you uncomfortable, which is where I responded initially.The nudity in GitS isn't remotely used in the same fashion as a number of other animes or the exploitation for that matter, so it's not in the same vein at all. So feeling uncomfortable with the nudity is more on you, and less on how the character is depicted since there are in-universe reasons.

    Which really brings me around back to what I started with in that post (edited down for space):
    I'm fairly certain that Oshii specifically said in interviews his intent was to make her more youthful, in contrast to the manga. So, that would be in conflict with what Oshii has said in the past.
    There's not a whole lot of Japanese culture in the film anyways, so I'm not why you're offended to begin with. Considering characters in Pacific Rim range from China, Russia, Australia, and the United States among other nations I gotta go with that being a real non-issue. Then again, the film spent a decent portion of its time in Hong Kong anyways and the three Chinese characters had zero speaking lines from I remember. It's a multi-national force fighting monsters from space. I'm not sure where you were expecting some Japanese culture from. Remember that it was a Western monster movie from the start, so to me that expectation was unrealistic.
    They were kind of non-specific in location and character design to begin with. Given that the setting was after a major conflict of some sort (WWIII or something else), Hong Kong could easily have become part of what would then be Japan after the conflict ended. That also isn't to say that after the conflict ended that Japan itself could have taken in some refugees which could have had some influence.
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  15. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Finally saw the non live action version. Not necessarily my cup of cyberpunk, but I can see the appeal. Looks like an effort at a respectful adaptation despite the whitewash accusations.
     
  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    You should check out the GitS Stand Alone Complex series. Both seasons.
     
    Rylo Ken likes this.
  17. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    thanks, I'll do it!
     
    Lord Vivec likes this.
  18. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    By "uncomfortable" I don't mean simply with any nudity but rather the way its presented in terms of the situations and the majors lack of concern, I think that is clearly ment to create an impression of strangeness and disconnection along of course with her body itself.

    To me she pretty clearly looks older and perhaps more importantly shows less emotion becoming more introspective.

    Yes I'd agree the film doesn't really need much focus on culture to achieve its aims hence thinking it a little strange it was being held up as something to aspire to.

    I'd say if theres any intent there its more generalised rather than looking for any specific references. For me the visual references to Hong Kong naturally feed into the "city state" feeling of the stories as well as the sense of the power of businesses working in a very open international environment in an often exploitative fashion. These are things that could of course become greater issues anywhere in the future but from the audiences own view of the world I think references to Hong Kong bring these things to mind and make them feel a bit more natural.
     
  19. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The only thing negative I have to say about the Ghost movie trailers is that they remind me of two of the most famously awful sci fi action movies with female leads in our time: Aeon Flux starring Charlize Theron and Ultraviolet starring Milla Jovovich.
     
  20. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I believe I stated earlier in this thread: This movie is a mistake. We already have good GitS media out there.
     
  21. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    I agree the original Ghost in the Shell is a great film. However, it's pretty a niche film with a small following as most of the earlier anime films are.

    This live action film starring a well known actress in ScarJo makes it more accessible to the general movie going audience. I'm a big fan of the anime, but I'm going to see the live action film with an open mind and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
     
  22. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    moreorless, I don't think your arguments hold up very well at all. You've been the one to highlight the Major's attitudes about nudity, and how this reflects on the film's themes. Having a Japanese individual in a white woman's body would have profoundly impacted such a theme, and impacted her interactions with basically every other character. The fact that it didn't happen in the original film is pretty suggestive. Likewise, I imagine it probably goes unmentioned in this coming film. Because this is nothing more than a white-washed major release, perfectly timed for President Trump and the resurgence of global bigotry. I hope this is a resounding, painful failure in every respect.
     
  23. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Well there's not just the original film. There's a whole two season anime series.
     
  24. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    I really don't understand this westernized whitewashing of anime/magna. First of all when you give a character huge "Bambi Eyes" and Skittles color hair the point of casting an Asian or Caucasian in the role becomes a mute point.

    Please note this is not asia bashing. I love most anime. I love samurai tales. I respect the martial arts too.
     
  25. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    There's a bit more than that. There's the original film, it's sequel that came later Innocence, two seasons of SAC, a film in the SAC universe set after the series (Solid State Society), the OVA series Arise, and the movie set in the Arise timeline (Ghost in the Shell: The New Movie, yeah corny title).