Amph Ghost in the Shell

We don't talk about Arise.

 

I bought the original film about a week ago. I've heard the dub is awful, so should I stick with the original subtitles?

 

the dub is awful

 

I actually never finished watching all the OVA's. I did see the latest movie set in that timeline, and it was alright. I still think that the SAC continuity is probably the best.

 

The huge "Bambi Eyes" is standard for anime characters with the understanding the characters are Japanese as they typically have Japanese names. Many feel that since this is a Japanese property is should have a lead actor that would reflect that.

However, I understand casting ScarJo as the lead as she's a box office draw.

Yet, despite all the subsequent films and series that followed the original film, Ghost In the Shell remains a niche property as it has not hit the main stream like Guardians of the Galaxy, Bruce Lee or Godzilla.

Personally, I did not mind the English dubbing as it allows me to focus on the beautiful animation, some of it looks very realistic.

 

What part of not talking about Arise don't you get?

 

Meh, not so much that I didn't get it. More so that I forgot what the plot was by the time Netflix uploaded the next OVA. I figure I'll see them all eventually.

 

Interestingly the latest trailer does seem to infer that we might find out something about her personal history, that could perhaps explain why they've shifted to just calling her "the major" which could conceivably be a decive not just to stop her researching her background but also to hide a shift in ethinicity(or maybe even sex?) from her and the audience?

As far as the morality itself goes I can I spose see questioning what might well turn out to be a more conventional action film(although the trailers seem to hint its avoided the worst excesses of "girls with guns" films mentioned above)being made from a franchise that previously has always had a good deal of intelligence to it but as the idea its somehow feeding into a rise in US nationalism/racism seems very far fetched to me, again seems like people desperately wanting to find something to be offended by. At worst I think your talking simple economics of johansson being a more bankable lead than any Asian alternative, perhaps true for some of the money men but really in terms of creativity I think her look and indeed previous roles like Under the Skin and Lucy she seems very well suited to the role for me.

 

Thanks for a answering my question Sith_Sensei__Prime. I love Asia cultures alot. I mean and look at SW! It's like 50% based on Asian culture! Also my question was just that! A question. No agenda in my words.

 

I don't mean to imply that this was done to consciously appease Donald Trump. I mean it is part and parcel of the same impulses that elected him: a hellbent insistence on whiteness at all costs. It is disgusting.

 

It really is the best. It's the perfect blend of the manga and the films.

 

Ironically I think a large part of Trumps success is down to nominally left wing politics/media/commentators shifting to the right on a lot of the most important issues(pushing neoliberial capitalism and foreign intervention to suits its aims) and hiding behind a cloak of relatively cheap indemnity politics(but with little effort to actually help the disadvantaged on a large scale) which is exactly what I think your reaction to this film falls under.

 

How is my reaction "pushing neo-liberal capitalism or foreign intervention?" That's a meaningful enough critique of politics, and certainly one that applies to the late Clinton campaign. But you seem to have just tacked it on to my post, which in fact fits in a very real and long running history of emphasizing white heroes and their stories to the exclusion of others, even when that means distorting or appropriating material concerned with other themes or peoples.

 

Obviously its not pushing either of those things but I think it is an example of pushing questionable identity politics on a relatively unimportant issue waaaay to hard which we very often do see as a cover from people who either turn a relative blind eye or actively push the aforementioned shifts to the right in terms of economics or foreign policy linked to it.

Going back to your less politically focused point though I would not really say that the major having western features was specifically played up in the original film, the focus was I think clearly on her having an idealised mannequin like look. Again though I think there is certainly a possibility that this aspect might actually be played up in this film, hence her just being reffered to as "the major" meaning she doesn't know her own ethnic background potentially setting up a shift in ethnicity as a dramatic reveal.

 

What was played up in the original film was a character with a Japanese name, treated by everyone around her as Japanese, living and working in a place that was clearly meant to be Japan. Forgive me for not seeing how it's "questionable" to suggest that maybe such a character was meant to be Japanese. Especially when you apparently don't think it's strange to contort history so that a white man was a great samurai, and the perfect lens through which to view the social upheaval of the Meiji Restoration, a white man best captures the culture and spirit of Sioux, or that a white man is improbably plopped into ancient China to be in middle of the latest Chinese epic, or finally that you have wishfully invented a whole new subplot for this as-yet-unreleased film trying to justify this white actress.

None of that is weird? This is "relatively unimportant" but it nonetheless merits all these improbable, stupid, discrediting rewrites of the plot if that's what's necessary to shoehorn a white person into the starring role?

No one is pretending this is the most important issue on Earth, or that this is the one that deserves our attention above all others. But enterainment reflects our culture. The choices we see in it mean something. Most especially when that choice is the same one ad nauseum: whiteness.

 

Was she "treated as Japanese"? I really don't remember any direct references to her being Japanese in the film besides her name. Equally I would disagree that the setting in question was "clearly Japanese", obviously there are a few pointers towards it but to me it comes across as a setting that's clearly intended to be heavily internationalised. None of the examples you gives seem appropreate to the situation with this film at all to me.

Your really of course moving into a different argument as well that's no longer that casting a western actress is a negative but rather than changing the characters name is yet to me this seems like it may well be the product of the story the film is trying to tell. If the Majors background is a secret that the film reveals then having her original name as one to certainly seems like it could be effective.

Generally my view is that the vast majority of the "whitewashing" reaction came from people who had very limited to no understanding of the material in question, they simply saw a Japanese animated film with a character who has a Japanese name being cast white and instantly looked for this reaction to fill column inches.

 

A couple of points. First, why are you dismissing her name? That seems like a pretty big clue. Secondly, this is exactly my point. None of the other Japanese characters treated her as different from them because she wasn't. She was also Japanese.

I'd also point out that you don't that you are stretching miserably again. Yes, it's a city with lots of international influence. A Japanese city with lots of international influence. Would you deny that London is English?

With all due respect, you don't sound like you have any grasp of these issues at all, nor what the relevant concerns are. "White washing" isn't some magical and random complaint. People object to it because it's a tool that marginalizes non-whites while exaggerating the important and centrality of white people. There aren't two separate arguments. The two points are identical. I honestly don't see how you have any credibility if you can't recognize that common thread that runs through all this.

 

I'm not dismissing her name but rather commenting that your point about it is actually independent on casting an American in the role. What I mentioned as well is that this film clearly seems to be altering the story so that the Majors background is unknown not just to the audience but also to her, in that situation having her also not know her original name seems to make sense doesn't it?

As far as the majors co workers go are they all Japanese? Batou doesn't seem to be(mentioned to be American in the series I believe) and neither does that bearded agent in the sequel yet there not being Japanese is never mentioned exactly because your dealing with an environment that's so internationalised that its a non issue.

Again as I said yes the films are set in Japan yet I would say its a very heavily internationalised Japan of the future, the second film especially to me seems be draw much more on Hong Kong/Taiwan for its visuals. It doesn't seem clear to me exactly where this new film is set although give the above I'm not sure that's really such a big issue.

Where have I commented that "white washing" as a whole is a non issue? what I have commented on is that I think in this case its a non issue and that a lot of commentators looking to make it one were doing so from positions of ignorance. This kind of highly questionable reporting does I think only damage the causes that it claims to espouse(although generally I think its often done cynically for financial/politically gain) and so allows for the rise of the likes of Trump.

 

A much bigger issue for me is simply whether its going to do justice to its source material or just end up as another dumb action film. Signs do seem somewhat position that it will retain at least some depth to me although its pointless to try and judge that before release.

 

That's a pretty staggering amount of work involved there. I thought the use of magnets involved in the last model was particularly interesting.

 

Indeed that is an interesting direction to take things, not something I remember directly on the robotic tech of the films but I would say the second one especially does obviously look to have that Blade Runnerish like merger of the modern and the antiquated in a wider sense.