LMM's decision: dealing with the

Discussion in 'Communications' started by legacyAccount, Sep 10, 2002.

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  1. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    this is not redunant, seeing as carter TOLD US to start a new thread. this should not go to PM, seeing as carter told us to start a new THREAD. i am simply following up on CARTER's suggestion

    in the "Lord Mauly Mall decision" carter has told us that LMM's punishment was soley based on the spam. there are numerous members who feel that his last post (which, in my opinion was a flame) and attitude in general should have been addressed. since that thread is soley for dealing with the spam issue, this one is for dealing with the other issues.

    Edit: Were done here.
  2. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    I'll be addressing this ASAP, also, but, please try to keep your criticism constructive and free of emotionally-charged rhetoric. I understand your frustrations, and I want to see them addressed, so it would be best for everyone concerned if this could remain a rational, non-personal discussion.

    Cool. :)

    Vertical
  3. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    This is a repost from the decision thread. This is my response to LMMs last post on my original thread, which I would have loved to respond to days ago. It also shows many of the other problems with LMM besides spamming.

    Also, I would like to make an official request for more mods to be involved So far we have gotten the runaround, an admin tried to change the topic, tried to send us off somewhere less public, and said we were all personally biased, and totally ignored all of our legitimate concerns, comments, and arguments. And thank you for trying to catch up, Vert. Now for the repost:

    LMM's last post to my thread, which he unlocked to post this reply:

    My friends, I have been here since 1999.
    I have carved my niche at this place by being
    me, Lord Mauly Mall. I have gained
    a reputation through years of experiences
    most of them I am glad to say were
    pleasant.

    Over the past three years I've given you discussion, pictures, art, music, sounds, videos, and vision.

    I'm not PreacherBoy or Padme Bra or Dehrian or Fatboy Roberts or Vertical or Sil or Sturm or Chyren or solojones or Simone or Darth_AYBABTU(thank god) or GCC or JMT or Grilled-Sarlacc or Cetera or Liz Skywalker or GriffZ or Sapient or Dagsy or citizen-tom or Gay-LenKenobi or wstraka5 or MaidenLumpé or Pizzathahut or Amidala Starkiller or KnightWriter or Josh Griffin or Scott Chitwood or Carter or DarthOutletMall or ...and Just for Maul or DarthMaul13 or countless others.

    I'm Lord Mauly Mall and I'm here for a reason. Are you?

    Recently I've closed your threads, banned your trolls, created your banners, well actually I've been doing that for a while too and taken all your crap. And I don't like it.

    Am I immune from rules? No. In this case, yes. Why? Because this is essentially my thread. If I want to spam my own thread I feel I have the right. Spam your own thread. I could care less. But this thread became mine by page 2. I was even going to rename this thread LMM'S LYNCHING but I didn't. I have respect for the original author, however wrong I think they might be.

    So look if you want my head on a platter, forget it. Hate to disappoint you folks but I'm actually valuable around here. Are you? Would you be missed? I've contributed and distributed more content over the years than most of you could dispense in a lifetime and it hasn't stopped! So let me do my thing.

    Is that being arrogant?

    Hello, what do you expect from a 32 year old Star Wars geek named LORD Mauly Mall. Geezus my hole persona is based on an exclusive elit group known as the Sith, folks. So do yourself a favor and don't stress yourself out about technicalities and worry about when it's your golden time in the spotlight. Because, oh yeah it'll come if you stick around.

    Forget me, I'm disappointed in a whooole bunch of you out there right now and believe me, I never forget. That's the sad thing about all this. You're dissing me out in the open like this and you get excited about it! Like yeah this is the reality thread for the day to loiter in. Well I'm glad you enjoyed the show. Now get a life. Grow up. Do whatever it takes to see beyond any of this so you realize how pointless it is.

    Are you trying to stop me from being me?
    Lord Mauly Mall:
    TFN staff member
    Artist team
    Moderator

    Most importantly, have I hurt anyone here today or yesterday or the day before?

    Have I ever banned any one of you to make you think so low of me? Oh wait D_A aside, anyone else? None of this is arrogance, my friends. I just know who I am and I know how important around here I am. I also know how to articulate my thoughts in coherent patterns to develop communication.

    Two closing points:

    -I want the person who happens upon this thread to read every word of mine in both threads and tell me what the real problem is.

    -Count exactly how many times I've apologized in this thread. Yes that's right, apologized for being me, Lord Mauly Mall. And brush your teeth.


    Now if you'll excuse me, I have my own thread in Community about com
  4. epic Ex Mod

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7

    I was just about to make this a thread, Maiden -- you beat me to it!

    Firstly, I don't think anyone is complaining that LMM was banned for his spam posts. I think that the majority of people understand that the penalty, if it was just for his spam posts, is justified.

    The Leadership Council has stated that the penalty imposed was only for his spam posts.

    So, for that line of questioning, I think everyone is in agreement. But that isn't the issue at hand.

    The issue at hand is more than just the 5 spam posts that the Admins have banned him for. It's concerning his arrogance, attitide and ego, in relation to his position as a TFN Staffer.

    The question is, when a leader on the forums begins to portray an attitude, a sense of "I know more than you because I have this title...", what should be done? How should it be handled?

    Obviously, leaders on the forums that are causing unrest among the members isn't a good thing, and needs to be addressed.

    To the JC:

    What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?

    To the Leadership Council:

    Taking LMM's spam posts completely out of the picture, do you agree with the JC's concerns against admins attitudes and behaviour -- in this case, LMM's?

    Carter said:

    The admins don't ban users for an ego or an attitude, they ban for spam, cursing, and etc. so in the same regard, the decision was made based on LMM's spam posts.

    However, just as LMM, as a TFN Staffer, recieved a heftier ban than a normal user would have in a similar situation -- should LMM, and people in position on the boards in general, also be judged heftier in regards to ego and attitude?

    With these people being a representative of TFN as a whole, I would say yes.

    The question is whether there is, or will be policy drawn up in regards to Admin attitudes and ego's, and the subsequent punishment for Admins found to be posting in such a manner that initiates general populace unrest?
  5. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    To the JC:

    What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?


    If an attitude was all that occurred, a warning and temporary demotion would probably be OK, but it also depends upon the severity of the infraction.

    In this particular case with LMM, he was arrogant to a fault, he flamed people, he spammed us, he mocked the whole process of our complaints and concerns, and generally acted very, very poorly. If a regular poster had done all of that, in one thread, and had a history as LMM does, I think they would probably be banned for quite a while. He once posted spoilers in the spoiler free forum, just because people were critizing him, for crying out loud! I certainly think that LMM should lose his modship for several months, at the very least. (see my post above for specifics from just one post.)
  6. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    The admins don't ban users for an ego or an attitude, they ban for spam, cursing, and etc. so in the same regard, the decision was made based on LMM's spam posts.

    WRONG.

    I have been banned for having a negative attitude before.

    without actualy flaming

    the "Sarcasm" alias was banne for having a bad attitude.
  7. Jole Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 1998
    star 3
    To answer Epic's questions:

    What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?

    If they are called on it, they should at least show some acknowledgement and concern that they were coming off that way (by more than one person). If after several attempts to bring it to their attention, they write it off as a personality problem than that person should no longer be a mod.

    I have a question for the Mods/Admins:

    Do you want your staff to have the image of egotistical manners and attitude to project on TFN as a whole? Is that good for your business?

    As a member who has been silently reading all these threads for the last few days I wanted to make one comment. Even though LMM wrote his posts in response to others, the whole board reads it. He just isn't offending those who write before and after his posts. His comments, seem to the casual reader, as directed towards the whole community.

    Words from LMM's last post in the original thread:
    Am I immune from rules? No. In this case, yes.

    Hate to disappoint you folks but I'm actually valuable around here. Are you? Would you be missed? I've contributed and distributed more content over the years than most of you could dispense in a lifetime and it hasn't stopped! So let me do my thing.

    Is that being arrogant?

    Hello, what do you expect
  8. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    I agree that LMMs attitude will need to be addressed when he returns.
  9. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Then we disagree. We think it should be addressed in conjunction with the concurrent decision to punish.

    AYBABTU?

  10. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    I agree, why not solve the problem right now while he cant spam the boards in a hissy fit.
  11. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    You think two days is long enough to debate it? ;)
  12. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    Further spam by LMM will result in more permanent measures drawn.
  13. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    Then leave him banned while it is being debated.


  14. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    Further spam by LMM will result in more permanent measures drawn.

    Thats good, maybe make it so any admin can deal with it the time it is done, so it doesnt get dragged out for 4 days.

    Basicaly treat him like a regular memeber gets treated, no leadership council or whatever fancy delay a mod gets.
  15. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?

    Demotion. As a mod/admin, they are supposed to show and set the standards for the forums. If they aren't doing their job correctly, they shouldn't be there to set the standards. Just as LMM was supposed to set the standards as a mod.

    I think because he was a mod, he should be banned longer for spamming when he knew that he was supposed to set the standards.



    Further spam by LMM will result in more permanent measures drawn.

    What about further spam from any other admin/mod? I haven't seen much, but what if that happens? Will it only be the same penalty, or will it be extended?
  16. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    See, Carter still thinks this is all about the spam. I think he stopped reading all the posts on the subject about 9 hours ago.

    AYBABTU?

  17. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    The Leadership Council decision is abiding.

    AYBABTU, there are 7 other JC admins who've agreed on the decision.
  18. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    The way I see it, it's half about spam and half about the attitude that was given.



    ...and a Jango
  19. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    IMO, it is all about attitude. The spam was only the result of the attitude. If LMM were an emotionless robot, I'm sure he wouldn't have spammed (unless he was programmed to). But his actions had motivation; they didn't just come clear out of the blue.

    Why do we punish those who spam? To keep them and others from doing it again. And that depends on the person's outlook and attitude.
  20. Jole Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 1998
    star 3
    AYBABTU, there are 7 other JC admins who've agreed on the decision.

    Did they come into the threads and read the posts, or did they just go by what was told to them of the situation?

    I'm not trying to come across as snide, I'm actually curious how they went about agreeing on the situation.
  21. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    I agree, Twink. I guess maybe that was the approach I was trying to figure out ;)



    ...and a Jango
  22. epic Ex Mod

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    It's 2:27am and I'm going to bed, so no doubt this thread will end up being some 100+ monster by the time I check it again tomorr... er, today. Heh.

    Before I go, I would like to say that I think anyone who has some kind of authority on the boards should be placed under a different set of posting rules than the general populace. If TFN wants to maintain its professional standards, then it has to have people in authority who aren't going around pissing off its very core -- that is, the users who visit the site in the first place.

    If you're a regular user, you can post with an attitude or an ego, and it isn't necessarily against the rules. But if you're representing TFN in some way, be it a Staffer, an Admin, a newbie Mod, a FanForce Rep, or anyone else, there has to be a different set of posting standards to adhere to.

    EDIT:

    Carter -- this thread isn't about the spam. That was the other thread. You asked for a new thread for the new subject (that is, the "attitude" question), and here it is.

    And 7 other Admins agreed to the banning for the spam, yes -- but that, like I (and others) have said, isn't what this thread is about.
  23. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    Did they come into the threads and read the posts, or did they just go by what was told to them of the situation?


    I am too, and that is why I was against it being in a private area in the first place. I went along with it, becuase

    a) what choice do we have
    b) I was hoping they might actually do the right thing.

    Since that hasn't happened, we are all back here again, creating "drama" because things couldn't be handled properly behind closed doors. All admins need to be involved in this, in public.
  24. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?

    i think it depends on the kind of posting.

    in my never-to-be humble opinion, his posts prior to the last one in the comm thread would have resulted in something smaller, for example a warning, or couple of days demotion.

    but his last post was over the top. it was flaming. and that isn't something that you type up and send before you realize what you're doing... it's not a one-liner. not to be overdramatic, but it was premeditated. when you write somethingl ike that, you save it, and if you still feel the same way the next day, you post it then. you're supposed to sleep on emotional posts or e-mails or letters or whatever. the fact that he posted it right then and there showed, in my opinion, a lack of self-control.

    i'd like to say right now that i've never had a problem with LMM. i always thought it was kind of odd the way he reacted to the criticism of his banners; if you are an artist, people are going to voice their opinions on your art. but that wasn't a problem i had with him, just an observation. i have no personal vendetta against him.

    i am quite aware that the decision is out of our hands, and that it lies with the leadership council. i just ask that in cases like this they judge on a case-by-case basis. this isn't just a few posts of a bad attitude, it is also a huge post that pretty much flamed anyone against him, implying that they were not important, but he was, because he was a mod.
  25. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Is epic the lone voice of reason among you?

    I, for one, appreciate your input on the subject, epic.

    AYBABTU?

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