LMM's decision: dealing with the

this thread is giving me problems, if it's a double, deal with it cause I can't figure it out...

If you feel a mod banned you without a clear reason don't go complaining about it where it don't do anything but stir up drama, bring up your points with a person in position to do something, or get something done.

If you don't then you obviously don't care, and there's no reason to bother talking about it.

If you don't know who to talk to, pm me, i can tell you where to go.

¤Night

 

This is regarding the opening up of the private boards.

Personally the CR board have nothing to hide really. As stated before it is a place where the City Reps can ask for help with meeting ideas and also other questions regarding FF. Almost all the "regular users" would find what goes on pretty boring and realistically wouldn't pertain to them at all. Now I will say however we also look for help on our boards for other problems as well. When it comes to discussing the problems that we may have whether it be users or something else the CR's really just ask for advice on how we should handle the situation. To be quite honest it works quite well. Also would you rather someone come to you and "handle the problem" with you prior to talking it over. Perhaps discussing it first will bring a more level-headed approach when discussing it with you. I have found this to be quite useful in real life as well. As a supervisor, I bounce things off of my manager prior to taking them to the individual. That way I get feedback prior to discussing it with the individual, and I ensure that what I am trying to do, is in fact what is actually perceived by the individual and not a misunderstanding.

One thing I have noiced about FF is that our Mods (RSA's) and CR's work very well together. We work on communicating effectively with one another the needs which we have, and work at finding appropriate solutions to many things.

 

This reminds me of the time i was banned a few months ago, i admit i was not the best poster at the time but the reason of my ban was something along the lines of "for general negative attitude in posts". Now dont get me wrong but that sounded like a mod banning me without any clear excuse. Another abuse of power. it was done in a way to hide the actual reason, so no one had to answer for it.

Abuse of power isn't the relating part in that, and I'm not sure it is abuse of power. It's the "for general negative attitude in posts" part that is to say the least, suprising. We can ban darth_boy for general negative attitude, so I figure we can punish other certain members for a bad attitude as well?

 

The Mod Squad is not going to be made public. We've had this discussion thousands of times, and all of the reasons still stand, none of which are "because we want a private board where we can feel elite". There are legitimate reasons for a forum for the administration to discuss administrative issues, and there are legitimate reasons why it shouldn't be public. Let it go, and please stop derailing this discussion with talk of opening up the mod squad.

Keep this discussion on topic, please.

Vertical

 

epic asked, "What do you think should be the punishment for anyone in authority who are percieved to be posting with an attitude or in an egotistical manner? Automatic demotion? A warning first? A temporary demotion?"

In my opinion - permanent demotion. Or better yet, no promotion in the first place.

Anyone who's read some of my more interesting Communications rants over the past year and a half knows that I think the root of many, many problems at the JC is the divide between admins and members. What you've got here is a teenager-and-parent type of relationship: The parent is excessively overbearing, not admitting that their little darling is capable of making at least some decisions on his or her own, and hands down condescending proclamations backed by reasons such as "Because I say so." The kid, in turn, is angry that the parent doesn't respect them and rebels any way he or she can. The parent reacts by becoming even tougher, and on and on the deadly cycle goes.

Members of the JC frequently have no respect for and show no understanding towards the difficulty of the job of the administrators. Admins quickly forget that they were once regular members themselves and develop condescending attitudes, eventually becoming completely disinterested in the issues of the JC and withdrawing from the hoi-poloi of the membership to ensconce themselves in their private forums and play power politics.

I can't think of any easy remedies to these problems or even any preventative measures. However, I do know that these attitudes are intensely destructive to the community and need to be dealt with as harshly as possible. In all honesty - yes, I do think flaming of or showing disrespect towards an admin coming from a member should be treated more severely than offenses against a fellow member. And yes, I do think that administrators who intentionally use their pretty colors and "high standing" on an internet message board to stir resentment and make regular members feel inferior SHOULD BE PUNISHED. A slap on the wrist is not enough if you hope to prevent the whole JC community from going down the drain in a whirlpool of lack of caring. (Woo, look at me - I made a pretty metaphor. ) Admins who belittle users should not be allowed to continue on as admins, IMO.

 

I agree with Vertical on this issue.

AYBABTU?

 

Wouldn't it work if the administration selected 10 or so members that they felt were mod-material and the regs voted/?

 

voted how? polls are no good, socks stuff the ballots. Openly post our views in threads? Would bring about calls of "favoratism" and "biasism!". pm a mod with ballots? socks, plus people would demand recounts.

¤Night

 

"If a person can utilize his time wisely and handle the two jobs, why not? If moderators can mod at outside boards or manage outside sites, why can't the same be true for TFN staff? Because they're (we're) involved? Involved with what? An obscure (or not so obscure) section of the site that may or may not be discussed here?
i don't think TFN status should affect modship at all... they shouldn't become a mod because of their TFN status, but they also shouldn't be denied modship because of it.

"If if and buts were candy and nuts, then oh what a wonderful world it would be."

The problem with that theory is there are too many "ifs" in it.

You're confusing the issue here. The question is not whether someone who is on both TFN staff and board administration can act responsibly in representation of either or. A person should be just as accountable being a mod solely, being TFN staff solely, or being both.

The issue arises when someone who is on both doesn't act in the appropriate manner particularly to being a message board moderator. The question is then automatically raised that this person is being reprimanded fairly by moderator standards, particularly light that he/she may have connections with TFN staff. Furthermore, I truly don't believe this issue would've been raised had LMM been just a TFN staff member. It wouldn't have justifited his attitude any more, but the original problem came when he was committing an act as a TFN staff member and his attitude towards the criticism was detremental toward being a good example of a JC moderator.

Bottom line: the standard for JC moderator conduct on the JC is scrutinized more than the conduct for one who is a TFN staffer only. You would hope that they would be scrutinized on the same level, but they're not. Normally, LMM's initial reactions wouldn't have garnered that much attention if he were just a normal user or TFN staff only. But because he was a mod, and the conduct was examined in light of the JC specifically, and not an example of TFN overall, the issue was raised as to his attitude. Of course, it ballooned from there.

As I have said - and it certainly bears repeating - there is no reason why a TFN staff member should be made a mod. There are plenty of qualified people in any given forum. I don't think that being a mod should withhold you from being considered for staff, but when you accept a staff position, I believe you should resign you moderator status, and allow someone else to fill the position.

"On the matter of removing his banner
Ludicrous. And I Don't mean Darth. If you do a job and then scratch the bosses car, would you want your job being invalidated, not being paid for it (ppayment in these terms as the recognition and enjoyment from the fans), and having someone else do it?
I'm not saying that the banner is good, I've long regarded LMM as a photoshop wizard, but we definetly don't share the same artistic vision."

That's pretty close to a strawman argument as I've seen. Doing your job and scratching your bosses car have nothing to do with each other (that is unless you drive for your boss). In this case, LMM's attitude relates directly towards his work.

 

I don't think so. Many of the members will end up not voting, socks will vote, and people will vote for their friends and what-not, and it's usually too difficult to think of even 10 candidates.

It's easier for the mods to pick because they generally have a better idea as to why this person is a better candidate than that person and besides, the decision's usually unanimous.

There's a better way to correct the system than by having nonchalant or cynical members picking a handful of mods.

GO 'CLONES!

 

There may be a lot of if's, but there are a lot of if's in the world. snap-hiss is able to maintain his website and fulfill a CR position. I am able to maintain a friend's website, fulfill a lot of random duties/favors for friends, and still keep up with Games. Who's to say a person can't fulfill a mod an staff position?

"You're confusing the issue here. The question is not whether someone who is on both TFN staff and board administration can act responsibly in representation of either or. A person should be just as accountable being a mod solely, being TFN staff solely, or being both. "

I wasn't answering that question, i was responding to the statement "I don't think any TFN staff member has business being a full-time mod" . Anyway, yes, a person should be just as accountable, unless one group decides to maintain themselves higher than the other. IMHO, staff should maintain a higher standard of posting than mods, but others may feel that since staff don't interact with the boards as much as mods, mods should hold themselves higher.

"The issue arises when someone who is on both doesn't act in the appropriate manner particularly to being a message board moderator. The question is then automatically raised that this person is being reprimanded fairly by moderator standards, particularly light that he/she may have connections with TFN staff. "

If the person (LMM in this case) acted inappropriatly on a boards issue, I feel the admins of the boards should reprimand and decide his punishment. If he acted wrongly as staff, then the staff admins should decide. Acting wrongly as staff would be the controversial inclusion of Dooku, and may or may not be his tone of speak if the staff admins choose to decide that that is inapprorpiate.

there is no reason why a TFN staff member should be made a mod. There are plenty of qualified people in any given forum.

That's right! But staff may be one of those qualified persons! Why should you hold them (us) back from being mods when you don't hold mods back from being staff?

That's pretty close to a strawman argument as I've seen. Doing your job and scratching your bosses car have nothing to do with each other (that is unless you drive for your boss). In this case, LMM's attitude relates directly towards his work.

I'm not familiar with the term strawman argument so this is what I took it as: "shoddy argument, not that good".

Yes, doing your job and scratching your bosses car do have nothing to do with each other (yes unless unless) so why be punished for it! His attitude comes from his work, but his work is not related to his attitude. What I am trying to do is seperate board work/problems from staff work/problems. His banner is staff work. It should bot be affected by the board problems: spamming and bad attitude on the boards regarding his work.

¤Night

 

I think this is getting way to far off base. The question is of lmm's moderating abilities and why exactly he was made a mod in the first place.

There's absolutely no point in bringing up opening the Modsquad, or taking down lmm's banner (other than the superfluous character issue). If those need to be discussed, pehaps a new thread or two is needed.

And Night, I'm sure that AYBABTU's comment was not meant as derogatory, but was merely pointing out the fact that being on staff does not necessarily necessitate Mod-ship.

This discussion needs to remained focused on the issues at hand.

 

I don't think the banner is relevant. Keep it up, take it down, whatever the members of the forum like, just make the decision non-biased. The crux of the issue here is a lack of caring from both admins and members.

 

I care, Mara. I care about... you

¤Night

 

You two wanna get a room?

 

The crux of the issue here is a lack of caring from both admins and members.

Right on, DLM. But in order for the members to care, the mods need to show that they care first. If they set a poor example then that's what the members will be following.

GO 'CLONES!

 

I know this may be a surprise, but some admins do care.

Some of us really do try our best, and try to keep everyone's interests in mind, not just our own.

 

"You two wanna get a room?"

I'd like to, yes.

¤Night

 

*gets a room with both Night and KW*

I love you guys. Can the three of us just run the JC together? We'll be the most benevolent despots ever.

Oh, wait... that's oligarchy again.

 

Only if I we can turn the stars system back on

But I digress, and hijack the topic in doing so.

¤Night

 

Some of us really do try our best, and try to keep everyone's interests in mind, not just our own.

I don't think this should be a blanket charge against any member with colors in his/her name. However, this should be a time to address all of the administration that have checkered histories when dealing with other members.

This is an opportunity for the administration to change the course of these forums. This may sound over-the-top, but these forums are an important get-away for many, many people and we want it to remain that way.


EDIT: Grammar.

 

"If I'm not mistaken, all issues are first brought up with the user via PM."

The JC is replete with tales of banning without warning. In fact, every single ban I've received was delivered without warning. Most recently, one mod warned me, after which I apologized and did my best to work out with him what I'd done wrong. Before that conversation was finished, a separate and uninvolved mod banned me without warning for 48 hours. That was the instance in which I was demoted for over a week (or was it two?) during which my future as a City Rep was put in question.

So no, the issues are not always first brought up with the user via PM.



"If you do a job and then scratch the bosses car, would you want your job being invalidated, not being paid for it ... and having someone else do it?"

In keeping with your analogy, if your job is to paint the bosses car, then yes, that's an outcome I would expect.



And DLM, I've loved you ever since you welcomed me onto this message board. Didja have a nice Rosh Hashanah, dearie?

 

Ok geez no one likes my analogies, let me expand on it: Your job is to maintain the company's network security, and that specific job was to make a report on the best course of action to take in dealing with upcoming technologies.

¤Night

 

Yes, and so did Darth Vader (at least according to my friend).

 

LOL