CT Logic Flaws in the Original Trilogy

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by DRush76, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Jedi Chloe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    How did the Death Star get from Alderaan (or what WAS Alderaan) to Yavin 4 so fast????? What knid of propulsion does that thing have???
  2. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    For me the major logic flaws are in RTJ.
    For the 2nd Death Star, whose bright idea was it to turn a small exhaust port into a hole so big, whole ships can go in ?

    The only other logic flaw is how are the Teddybears able to kill Stormtroopers with sticks when they are wearing Armour ?
    jimslendorn likes this.
  3. vypernight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
  4. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    Because in SW, armor is only for looks.
  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Hyperdrive.
  6. darth.ender Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    While the OT certainly has its logical flaws, most of those mentioned here seem to be grasping at straws. Perhaps it's a retaliation against those who love the OT more and criticize the PT for its flaws, but really, most of them are not significant flaws at all (and belive me, I've taken the time to critique every film in the series for its flaws).
  7. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Wut?

    The second Death Star wasn't completed yet...
    Jedi Chloe likes this.
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Awesomeness, dude!!!!!
    [IMG]

    [IMG]
  9. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I had problems with Leia's characterization in ANH . . . especially the failure to show her reaction/grief over Alderaan. We saw Obi-Wan's reaction, but not Leia's. Luke's training between ESB and ROTJ is a major problem for me. I realize that some novel revealed that Luke had did a great deal of his training from some Jedi handbook written by Obi-Wan before the latter's death. But that is a poor way to receive the kind of training that Luke really needed Leia's presence on Hoth . . . why was she there? She was a political leader (and definitely not the only one), not a military leader. She really wasn't needed there. Han and Leia's feelings for each other at the beginning of ESB . . . when did that started?

    But in order for me to go into detail about the OT or the PT, I would have to focus in details about each movie.
  10. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    She was in shock.

    Best Answer stolen from another thread...
    Political leaders were kept with the military so that they could be kept safe and be a symbol to the troops. Following her outing in Star Wars as a rebel sympathizer and the dissolution of the senate, she was no longer safe in the open and had to be kept safe with a military unit. Though she was not given a rank, her status as a senator and spy for the military gave her certain leadership privileges within the military. In her most notable military mission she was a Commander in Operation Skyhook in which the schematics for the DS1 were stolen in the first place. Given her presence in the Echo base CIC and the flight briefing she gave before the evacuation of Hoth, it is likely that she was acting as the senior officer in charge of the flight deck. Though we don't know what her military rank was, we do know that all three films portrayed her in military roles. Spy in Wars, Some type of commander at Echo Base in Empire, and Executive Officer to General Solo in the commando raid on the moon of Endor in Jedi

    After the celebration of the destruction of DS1 they became friends, and their friendship grew into a relationship over the next three years as they spent time together, culminating in what we saw in Empire.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Jan 7, 2013
  11. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    What exactly was the point in building a DSII in the first place?
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    To do the same job as the first one- intimidation via planet-busting- only without the first one's vulnerabilities.

    By swarming them and pulling off their helmets first. Or aiming for the gaps in the armour- which was designed to reduce damage from blaster bolts, more than physical attack.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jan 8, 2013
  13. Jedi Chloe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    True. But I dont even want to get into the issues of a MOON moving at lightspeed[face_hypnotized]
  14. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Haven't seen any true logical flaws pointed out here yet...
    HanSolo29 and darth.ender like this.
  15. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    When? When did Leia and Han start having serious feelings for one another? TESB made it clear that they were already harboring feelings for each other by the start of the movie. So, exactly when did they start becoming seriously attracted to each other?


    This strikes me as another example of bad characterization, when it came to Leia. When was this established that a political leader of a rebellion has to stay on a military base? Unless the leader of a revolution was also its military leader, I don't recall this ever being the case in history. When was this established in the STAR WARS saga? And where were the other leaders of the Rebellion?




    I'm quite aware of the moment when Luke "became a Jedi". But if this is supposed to be an excuse of the growth of his skills with the Force between ESB and ROTJ, then this strikes me as a poor excuse for Luke's training during that period. Using Obi-Wan's journal to increase his skills for such a short period of time? Bad writing.


    This is your answer? We didn't see Leia grieve over Alderaan's destruction, because she was in shock? Yet, we got to see Luke grieve over a man whom he had known for two days or less?
    Last edited by DRush76, Jan 8, 2013
  16. darth.ender Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    Funny you have a problem with a moon moving at lightspeed using unknown but far advanced technology (according to our present understanding of physics and capabilities, we can't even accelerate a pea that fast), but you have problem with the massive amounts of energy it would take that small moon to blow up a planet, especially with the ferocity it does:

    http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Alderaan.html

    We are talking futuristic technology here, after all.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's worth remembering that the "it's a planetary shield" interpretation is not universally accepted- other sources explicitly state Alderaan had no shield. Not that it makes much of a difference.

    In the Death Star novel "much of the planet's mass is shunted into hyperspace" so the calculations won't be entirely accurate.
  18. darth.ender Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    When exactly did Owen become upset with Obi-Wan and never want him around? We never see that in the films which span over 30 years, yet each cover a period of no more than a total mere months. A lot can happen, and I don't see why it's hard to believe their relationship budded between films. Heck, there's a lot we don't even see at all in the films that we should have, such as Obi-Wan being called "Ben" before Luke was born, implicitly teaching more than one pupil, himself being instructed by Yoda, etc.

    Hoth was the primary Rebel base. Why wouldn't a political leader be there? Political leaders are nearly always present with their people. Since the Rebellion is a militaristic institution, where would she hang out? She's only safe with other Rebels, and the Rebels are a fighting force. She herself had likely even had military training.

    What, pray tell, is good writing in Star Wars? I hope it's not the reuse of jokes like discussions in committees, Jar Jar, fart jokes, falling in love over discussions about sand, Obi-Wan becoming a Jedi Master in spite of specifically being called a Jedi Knight in ANH, Padme dying before Leia could possibly remember anything about her, or anything like that. Yes, the OT has plot holes, but this is relatively minor compared to those of teh PT and the gaps it left between the two trilogies.

    I've actually made this point as well, and I agree. But goodness, if we're going to be this nitpicky over the OT, it amazes me that so many would come to the defense of the PT over far greater storywriting infractions.
  19. darth.ender Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    A convenient retcon 30 years later to explain away what is technically a likely error in the filmmakers' understandings of physics.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Or they simply didn't care about physics at all- with the starfighters manoeuvring like aircraft rather than spaceships.
    V-2 likes this.
  21. darth.ender Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=wX7sUK26A8mjkQXg34CQAw

    All stormtroopers had their helmets on, first of all. Second of all, even if they didn't, the second death star was built in order to blow up more planets with it. The main reason that we don't see them blowing up countless star systems and dozens of planets, or maybe even hundreds of planets, was because they were both blown up only a short time before their functional creations......
  23. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Does it really matter when? It's one of those things that happen over time and sometimes even the people involved don't even see it happening. You can clearly see this in the way Leia continues to deny what she feels for Han. She fell for him and she doesn't know when or how, only that it happened and by the beginning of ESB, she's afraid to admit those feelings to herself, much less to Han. These feelings culminate throughout the whole film until it comes to its climax with the, "I love you," "I know," exchange in the carbon freezing chamber.

    Things just clicked and the rest is history. That's all the explanation we really need to understand what's going on.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Exactly. And from my observation, most of the time when people don't "get" a romance on screen, it's due to dislike of one or both characters. I've been guilty of the same.
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't think so. For one thing, that's still not enough time to go between most distinct systems at sublight, and sources say they had a backup hyperdrive.

    In this sense "Jedi knight" means "Jedi of any rank", not specifically Knight rank. Unless you think ANH Obi-Wan spoke of an order devoid of masters.

    First, this is not a case of "bad writing" on the part of "teh PT"; it's the result of a deliberate retcon by Lucas, because not showing Padme's death in the film would have been even more unpopular and because he chose to take advantage of the potential for cinematic juxtaposition with Vader's creation. Also, it is adequately explained by certain things we already knew from the films, specifically things about the Force.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Jan 8, 2013
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