PT Plot Holes and Inconsistencies in the Prequel Trilogy

But of course the real reason they didn't tell him is because they simply didn't know about it.

 

How elitest of them to keep information from Anakin that they didn't know to begin with. Simply inexcusable.

 

While Anakin was a rare exception, Obi-wan was still going by what he was taught by both Qui-gon and Yoda and then was making it up as he went along.

That is the big difference, otherwise Luke would've fell. Note how his family helps to influence him for twenty years.

One can teach only so much, it falls to the individual to apply those lessons to their life. For instance, at a young age, we are taught that drugs and alcohol are bad. But as soon as we're old enough, we start following into that trap. Unless you happen to continue to agree with that philosophy and become straight edge. Or close to it. Case in point, I've believed since I was five that drinking was not a fun activity without having done so. I'll turn thirty four at the end of June and still have not taken a drink. My best friend growing up had no interest in drinking, based on how he saw his father and brother when they drank. But then during our senior year, he had gotten a bottle of Schnapps and drank it at home. After graduation, he became like many others who enjoy alcohol as a means of relaxing and having fun. Everyone responds differently. The Jedi who were allowed to have attachments and fell, they all varied. Those who didn't have attachments, were fewer and farther in between when it came to falling. But they still fell regardless.

Attachment as the problem is that it arises from relationships that become too personal.

Consider that two Jedi fell during an era where attachments were forbidden, versus the eras where they were allowed. The numbers speak for themselves.

That's why Obi-wan let Anakin get away with his relationship to Padme, despite knowing the danger in it. I don't think the Council wasn't empathetic to his plight, but rather that it was never brought up to them.

Because it goes back to his age and how he first came into the Jedi Order. I do not know if he knew that Yoda was the lone holdout on his being admitted into the Jedi Order. But I think that's just what Anakin interpreted as the situation was and was fueled by Palpatine's lies and ego stoking. That and the fact is that I think that Anakin didn't spend nearly the amount of time with Yoda that the other Jedi had.

 

Both Anakin and Dooku are primary examples of what happens to a Jedi who let the outside society corrupt them. They become warmongering psychos who thrive on their own personal conquest and will not care how their actions affect other people. The Jedi have to work extra hard to keep their emotions in check, especially dark emotions for they can cause people to do terrible things. In the Jedi's case, having them go nuts will be like dropping a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima.

I've seen young teens join gangs, robbing stores, and shooting people all because either someone close to them has died or they've been threatened of being killed. It is not that simple to cope with death like you claim it is because if it were, those kids would not be doing the horrible things that they're doing now.

What good would it do even if the Jedi did free her? Anakin would still be worried about her because anything could happen to her. In fact, Shmi wasn't in any danger until she married and lived with Cliegg Lars in a homestead that's in the middle of nowhere. It is at that point that Anakin started having visions of her dying but even he didn't know if the dreams were actually happening. The point is that the Jedi can't be everywhere and save everyone all the time because they don't always succeed in doing so but they shouldn't let that concept upset them. That's what they're trying to teach Anakin but he just wasn't having it.

Well, that couldn't have NOT worked any better.

 

I don't think PMT was saying that the Jedi were perfect. I think he was saying that based on how the Jedi had come to understand the Force, dating back to the first individual who discovered the connection to the Force to the present day of TPM, they had known what it is that turns Jedi and how to curbtail it. It just took a while to reach the point where the Jedi evolved from what they were under Vodo Siosk-Baas, into what they are under Yoda. He's not saying that Anakin was bad, but that he was too unwilling to accept the galaxy as it is due to his attachments. The best thing for him was to grow up and away from Shmi, so that his mother could teach him to let go.

"Tales Of The Jedi" is the earliest example of the Jedi point of view, especially with the Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider stories. That's not to say that KOTOR isn't a good read, but TOTJ lays out the dangers of the dark side in a concise manner that reflects upon the PT. I recall re-reading the early 90's series and seeing many similarities to TPM and the early spoilers for AOTC, back in 02, I think it was. Maybe in 01. And then thumbing through it again after ROTS and seeing a strong connection between Ulic and Exar Kun and Anakin.

Obi-wan was against it because he knew that the friendship with Palpatine was close to being on the level of attachment, especially given how strongly he has defended him during their countless political discussions prior to the Clone Wars. But he deferred to the Council not so much because of his training, but because as he often said in his discussions with Anakin, politicians shouldn't be fully trusted.

OBI-WAN: "Be mindful of your thoughts, Anakin, th

 

No, I'm trying to distinquish the line between Jedi behavior and normal person behavior. You are correct about it being natural for a normal person to experience fear of loss and that we have every right to react to that fear. The Jedi, however, cannot react to such emotion because their powers are tied to their emotions. If they so much as get upset over a minor incident like being teased or being slapped in the face, they will cause an entire room to collapse like Anakin did when PalpSidious told him that Padme is dead. Emotions are the key factor in how the Force is being used and if you want to be a Jedi, then you have to remain calm and at peace or else, your mental instability and powers combined will lead to the destruction of countless worlds. Anakin refuses to control his emotions and therefore, his breakdown caused him to tear the entire galaxy apart.

The second Anakin signed on to become a Jedi, he ceased to be normal and became a demigod. As for how he became abnormally nervous in AOTC, I believed that Anakin himself answered that question. It was Palpatine's "guidance" that made him both power-hungry and mentally unstable but before that, Anakin had Qui-Gon to keep him grounded. Qui-Gon's death enabled PalpSidious to take over as the father figure so Anakin was screwed regardless if the Jedi knew the proper way to help him.

Anakin would have died fighting the Tuskens without his Jedi powers and the prophecy would be lost. With him gone, nothing will stop PalpSidious from being master of the universe and annihilating the Jedi Order.

And that will put you in danger of being corrupted by the Dark Side just like Anakin.

Well, I disagree with the whole "Jedi needing to change the

 

Except you miss the point of that in the Council scene, the Jedi are testing him. They are trying to gain an understanding of who and what this boy is and whether they will bend their rules for him. Ki-Adi-Mundi speaks up because he wants the boy to be honest and not try to hide his feelings from them. This is an important thing to understand for him, because Yoda says that his feelings will have an impact on his life. That is why in the end, they rejected him before the Battle of Naboo.

Shmi left Watto because he could no longer afford to keep her and because he felt sorry for her and felt that the Lars would be a better life for her. Odds are if the Jedi didn't need to go to Tatooine to obtain replacement parts, Anakin would either spend the rest of his life as a slave to Watto or be sold off at a future date. But in the end, the point is that Anakin needs the stability that his mother can provide and the continued efforts to make him an emotionally mature person.

That's because he would not have an outside influence like Palpatine undermining her efforts. Like with the Lars, where Luke could leave his aunt and uncle if not for his feelings of obligation and not have to worry that they will not be fine without him. This is why their deaths did not send Luke over the edge as he accepted that they are gone and he can now help Obi-wan with a clear conscience.

Except that they are right, because when it is all boiled down to the core basics, it is attachments and the need to let go of them, that results in fallen Jedi.

Of course it was a bad idea, but in the wrong ways.

That was only because Stover was working in conjunction with Luceno regarding all previous EU plots.

 

Well, none of you have superpowers so it's easy for you to not have those policies. You keep assuming that the Jedi are normal people but they're not because they are as close to being like gods. They can never lead normal lives due to what they are and what they can do like the X-men since they couldn't do the same either. The outside world hated and feared the X-men just for being born a mutant with superpowers and like them, there are some in the galaxy that feel the Jedi are a threat and we see how happy they are in the Senate when PalpSidious announces that he's killing off the Jedi. Anakin should've realized that he can never have a normal life now that he's a Jedi and that it is selfish of him to want a family at the expense of the galaxy's safety.

Once Anakin learned how to use his powers, he becomes a different person. Even Padme says that he's changed a lot and that's because he's learning how to be a Jedi (and his psychological make-up and personality is being mutilated by PalpSidious).

Let's view what happens next, shall we? Palpatine says that he forsees Anakin becoming more powerful than Master Yoda and fast forward to the scene where Anakin tells Padme that he'll be the most powerful Jedi ever. PalpSidious has been planting false ideas in Anakin's head that the poor boy has become power-mad.

Qui-Gon was able to bond with Anakin before they left Tatooine but neither Obi-wan nor the others had a chance to do the same. Anakin was forced onto their laps, it was like having a skunk for a pet but it took a long time for them to accept Anakin. The Clone Wars helped Obi-wan grow closer to Anakin, Yoda offered to help Anakin with his vision problems, and Mace was on the verge of trusting Anakin once he ratted out Palpatine as Darth Sidious. Even those younglings looked to Anakin for help when the Jedi temple was under attack but he disappointed all of them by being a traitor.

But Anakin would not know how to use his Jedi powers if noone teaches him how to do so. He wouldn't have survived against the Tuskens if he wasn't trained as a Jedi.

No, being a superpowered being with no self-control is a Sith trait.

 

I have one. After Yoda senses Anakin's pain as he kills the Tuskens, why don't they follow it up? They never question Anakin about it as far as we are shown. Perhaps this is why he goes to Palpatine, as referenced in Revenge of the Sith.

 

Most likely, they became too caught up in the first galaxy-wide war since the formation of the republic to investigate what Anakin was doing on a remote planet that wasn't even part of the Republic.

Would be nice if Yoda at least question Anakin directly or maybe asked Obi-Wan to find out more. OTOH if something was off they'd lose one of the most powerful Jedi in time of need. Also, both Yoda and Obi-Wan knew (or suspected) about Anakin and Padem's relationship and yet they kept quiet about it. It seems that when it comes to Anakin their preferred course of action was inaction until it was too late. So when Obi-Wan's telling Anakin he's failed him he's not entirely wrong.

 

True, but it still feels like an oversight. Although this kind of backs up that things generally go way too fast for Anakin to have time to meditate on his actions.

I get the impression that they didn't tend to tell Anakin what they really thought. That's an interesting point about not wanting Anakin to be out of action. Quite possible they ignored things that they wouldn't have otherwise ignored.

Obi-Wan indeed fails Anakin IMO, but there was little he could have done with fate setting up the events that occur. Qui-Gon's training would have been more suited for Anakin, of course. I don't know how he would deal with Anakin and Padme's relationship, but you get the idea he would have had more wisdom on the subject than Obi-Wan.

I didn't realise Yoda knew about Padme, is that from the novel? I didn't get this impression from the 'Counsel with Yoda scene', it seemed fairly ambigous.

 

Indeed! He was probably more excited about losing his virginity with the woman he'd loved since he was 9 and then proving himself as a hero of the Republic. Concentrate on the good stuff, forget the bad.

For once, he would have paid more attention when Anakin was telling him about dreams instead of dismissing them without further thought. After all, if the boy is the Chosen One, maybe the dreams are not just dreams?

He did direct Obi-Wan to Padme's apartment to find Anakin. Even if Yoda knew only after Anakin asked for his help (and received none, I might add), he still didn't do anything about it.

Of course, if we believe Lucas that the Jedi weren't celibate then it's possible Obi-Wan and Yoda thought Padme and Anakin were just "friends with benefits" and didn't form the dangerous attachment? I know it's not fair, but I sometimes wish Star Wars were not the kids movies so that these themes were more explored.

 

True, although Obi-Wan's advice "Dreams pass in time" was well intentioned. I think Obi-Wan and Yoda possibly learn from their mistake and adapt towards what we see in the OT. Although while Yoda gives Luke slightly better advice than Anakin receieved, he still seems to hold onto the ideal that sacrificing Luke's friends is unavoidable circumstance if Luke is to succeed as a Jedi.

Could be the case. I wonder what it would have been like if Lucas had left more of the jealousy issue in ROTS. I'm sure you're aware Obi-Wan and Padme's friendship is explored more in the script, and Obi-Wan playing dumb about the nature of Anakin and Padme's relationship is more relevant.

Yeah. At least they leave stuff ambiguous enough that it isn't ruled out for discussion.

 

Obi-Wan no more failed Anakin than Anakin failed Obi-Wan, or to reverse it, he failed Anakin just as much as Anakin failed Obi-Wan.

This really isn't a black or white, one character's entire fault situation. It's contributory with many factors playing a part. In short, like real life, no one acts ideally and everyone does make mistakes and the cumulative effect in this case is Anakin choosing to go Sith to save Padme and screw everyone else.

Sure, he had his reasons to make his choice, but they weren't all based on everyone else's actions - it also had a lot to do with his pereceptions of their actions. Not the same thing.

 

But appropriate in determining if he is to be trained or not. If they vote to let him in, he needs to know right away that his feelings can be an issue.

It was also that he served as a sounding board, for whenever he felt frustrated with Obi-wan and the Council. He treated Anakin as a friend and someone who needed additional mentoring. He's like the cool uncle who lets you do the stuff that your parents won't let you do.

He was fine up until his visions began. That was his undoing. There was no other way to proceed other than what Yoda told him.

Anakin did tell the Council and Obi-wan that he went to Tatooine to check on his mother and found out that she had died. But he didn't tell them the rest of what happened. Aside from Palpatine, the only other Jedi to know was A'Sharred Hett and he told Anakin to tell the Council. He just never checked to see if he had.

 

Yoda: Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is.
Anakin Skywalker: What must I do, Master Yoda?
Yoda: Train yourself to let go... of everything you fear to lose.

Missing and mourning loved ones who die are normal reactions. I'm not denying that Anakin had to let go but I don't understand how anyone expects him to listen this piece of advice after being told not to feel normal emotions.

 

The EU authors have really overdone this whole "not sleeping" thing. Anakin, Palpatine, now Plagueis. It's like SW is a video game. I find it notable that Lucas didn't go there.