CT Logic flaws in the Star Wars Trilogy (long)

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by WWu777, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. WWu777 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2011

    Logic Flaws in the Star Wars Trilogy (long)

    You don't notice these things as a kid, but as a critical thinking adult, they become obvious to you. Here is a long thorough list of plotholes and logic flaws in the original Star Wars trilogy that defy basic logic and common sense. Feel free to add any of your own.

    Star Wars A New Hope

    - When the Falcon was captured by the Death Star tractor beam, and the Imperials found it empty because Han and his party were hiding in the smuggling compartments, why didn't the Imperials use their life form detection devices, like on Star Trek? They should have such capabilities, since at the beginning of the movie, when C3PO and R2D2 were in the escape pod fleeing the captured Rebel cruiser, the Star Destroyer personnel said, "There goes another one. Wait, hold your fire. There's no life forms. It must have short circuited." Then later an Imperial officer told Vader aboard the captured Rebel cruiser, "An escape pod was jettisoned during the fighting. But no life forms were aboard." This indicated that the Imperials did have life form detection capability. So why wasn't it used on the Falcon in the Death Star?

    Furthermore, the pilot of the Tie Fighter that the Falcon was chasing to the Death Star should have reported that the Falcon was following it like a manned craft, not like a ship on automatic pilot, which should have told the Imperials that there were pilots on board.

    - Before the Falcon was captured by the Death Star, Governor Tarkin ordered his Imperial officers to execute Princess Leia immediately, after she lied to them about the location of the Rebel base. So how could Han, Luke, Ben and Chewie have so much time to sneak into the Death Star and rescue Princess Leia, if she was scheduled to be "executed immediately"? I guess "immediately" must be a long time in the Star Wars universe. lol

    - There was no reason why the Death Star personnel would let Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie and the droids escape on the Millenium Falcon. They could have easily deactivated the ship or hauled it away, rather than leaving it intact and operable in the hangar bay with only a few guards around it. That is too contrived and convenient.

    - When our heroes went down into the trash compactor room on the Death Star, after the shootout in the prison bay, the Imperials obviously knew they were down there, since they disappeared and blew open the trash chute. So when they set the walls of the trash compactor to close in on them, and R2D2 managed to stop it and open the exit door, there should have been guards outside the door to immediately capture them, since their location was already known. But there weren't. That was never explained.

    - When the Falcon escaped the Death Star, even though the tractor beam was deactivated, the Death Star could still have easily shot it out of space, or immediately sent fighters to destroy it. There's no way a gigantic space station could be that easy to escape from. It should have many things in its arsenal besides its tractor beam.

    - In a military space station, areas where you can deactivate things should not be so easy to get into. They are usually locked and heavily guarded. So Ben Kenobi should not have been able to get to that control panel to deactivate the tractor beam that easily, by simply walking through a hallway and out onto a balcony.

    - During the light saber duel between Ben Kenobi and Darth Vader, Kenobi gives up when a few stormtroopers arrive and point their weapons at him, and lets Vader slay him and vanishes. There was no reason for him to give up like that. In the prequels, Jedis can deflect lasers with their light sabers very easily, like a routine breeze in the wind. If Kenobi could deflect lasers so easily during his youth, there was no reason why he couldn't do it again in that scene and continue to fight Vader, or flee and rejoin Han's party in their escape. His sacrifice seemed senseless. Furthermore, he was in a personal duel with Vader and the stormtroopers were not supposed to interfere.

    - Furthermore, during that same duel
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  2. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I'll address some of your points (some of them have to do with "this feels unrealistic to me"-type complaints, which are more personal than strictly logical, so I'll skip those).

    ANH

    When the Falcon was captured by the Death Star tractor beam, and the Imperials found it empty because Han and his party were hiding in the smuggling compartments, why didn't the Imperials use their life form detection devices, like on Star Trek? They should have such capabilities, since at the beginning of the movie, when C3PO and R2D2 were in the escape pod fleeing the captured Rebel cruiser, the Star Destroyer personnel said, "There goes another one. Wait, hold your fire. There's no life forms. It must have short circuited." Then later an Imperial officer told Vader aboard the captured Rebel cruiser, "An escape pod was jettisoned during the fighting. But no life forms were aboard." This indicated that the Imperials did have life form detection capability. So why wasn't it used on the Falcon in the Death Star?

    I was under the impression that the sumggling compartments were probably shielded from scans, hence their use for smuggling.

    Furthermore, the pilot of the Tie Fighter that the Falcon was chasing to the Death Star should have reported that the Falcon was following it like a manned craft, not like a ship on automatic pilot, which should have told the Imperials that there were pilots on board.

    Might be a fair point, though he don't know what automatic pilot is capable of in SW. Empire implies the Falcon's computer has a personality ("I don't know where your ship learned to communicate...").

    Before the Falcon was captured by the Death Star, Governor Tarkin ordered his Imperial officers to execute Princess Leia immediately, after she lied to them about the location of the Rebel base. So how could Han, Luke, Ben and Chewie have so much time to sneak into the Death Star and rescue Princess Leia, if she was scheduled to be "executed immediately"? I guess "immediately" must be a long time in the Star Wars universe.

    The time span between the "terminate her" conversation and the "she may yet be of some use to us" one seems to be very short, and Vader and Tarkin are even in the same room and positions. It may be one conversation, with there then being no chance to carry out the original orders.

    When the Falcon escaped the Death Star, even though the tractor beam was deactivated, the Death Star could still have easily shot it out of space, or immediately sent fighters to destroy it. There's no way a gigantic space station could be that easy to escape from. It should have many things in its arsenal besides its tractor beam.

    LEIA: They let us go. It's the only explanation for the ease of our escape.

    During the light saber duel between Ben Kenobi and Darth Vader, Kenobi gives up when a few stormtroopers arrive and point their weapons at him, and lets Vader slay him and vanishes. There was no reason for him to give up like that. In the prequels, Jedis can deflect lasers with their light sabers very easily, like a routine breeze in the wind. If Kenobi could deflect lasers so easily during his youth, there was no reason why he couldn't do it again in that scene and continue to fight Vader, or flee and rejoin Han's party in their escape. His sacrifice seemed senseless. Furthermore, he was in a personal duel with Vader and the stormtroopers were not supposed to interfere.

    His sacrifice was for Luke's benefit. Though if we're comparing this to the prequels, it does jar a bit since Qui-Gon and Dooku are both older in their respective films than Ben is supposed to be in ANH. This might be an argument for toning down the flashiness in the prequels to match the OT, though, not the other way around.

    The stolen data tapes of the Death Star that the Imperials were after the whole movie made no sense. If the Rebels can analyze it and find a weakness in the Death Star so quickly and easily, why couldn't the Imperial
  3. Darthman1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2011
    star 1
    Some interesting ones, but a few feel like nit-picking. Such as Jabba hanging Han on his wall. Jabba is conceited, powerful, and evil so him keeping Han as a trophy doesn't seem out of character. Though I do think there are some major glaring errors like that many huge critics of the PT ignore. If I remember correctly the rules of those criticisms are that you can't use the novelizations, EU, or really deep rationalization. Here are some examples of things that I think the major haters would say about the OT if they judged both trilogies the same way.

    A NEW HOPE
    *The most major one to me is the scene after the dogfight when they escape the Death Star. It would've been fine had Leia not said she basically knew it, but she knowingly led the Empire's super weapon that can decimate entire planets to the Rebel Base before getting a chance to analyze the Death Star plants, and not even knowing if there was a weakness the rebels could exploit. What does that say about Leia who's supposed to be a major player in the Rebel Alliance? How awkward would it have been if they didn't find one at all.
    *It's not really a plothole but sort of something that's not explained is why they need Han. One of the complaints against PHANTOM MENACE is Qui-Gon's plan to get an engine for the Naboo cruiser and why can't he just attain a new one. The same could be said about Obi-Wan and Luke. Obi-Wan and Luke can sure as hell fly a ship on their own and wouldn't have to work with a shady smuggler. Did Obi-Wan somehow sense that Han would have a role to play later through the Force? It's never made clear why they didn't just bother getting their own ship for cheaper and fly themselves there.
    *I think you made a mention to this, but the beginning of the film makes it clear that the Empire has technology to scan for life readings (the scene where the Imperial Officer said not to blow up the escape pod from the Tantive IV). Could they have not used some variation of that technology to realize there were people on the Falcon?

    EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    *It has been three years since the events of A NEW HOPE. And in that time Han didn't decide it would be a good time to go and pay back Jabba with the money the rebels gave him? A powerful gangster is after you and you have the means to stop him, and you don't use it. And wouldn't having the target of a hit from a powerful mobster with profiteering Bounty Hunters searching for hanging around with you be dangerous for the Rebellion (It is nowhere near above a Bounty Hunter to give info like that to the Empire if they had came upon them while searching for Han)? I mean yes, he was helping the Rebels out, but you would've thought in all of that time between films he could've fit in time to give Jabba the money. Obviously it would've saved them trouble in the long run. (And yes, I know the EU says that he tried to deliver it but was robbed by a pirate, but remember that by the rules of the criticisms towards the PT, you can't use the EU. Only what the film's give you)
    *How did the Empire beat the Falcon to Cloud City? It shows Boba following them but it never makes it clear if he can know where they're going. Did he hack their navigational computer? Did he know that Han and Lando had a past together? It's never made clear. Furthermore why didn't the Empire take them with an ambush while walking in the door? Would've still had the same results. I mean they're plan later to capture wasn't that elaborate, and it's shown that they've already had enough time to hide their presence since the Falcon crew didn't know they were there upon arrival.
    *Since when was C-3PO the type to wander from the group? For the most part he's timid and hangs with the group. I mean he hears and R2 unit and wonders if its R2-D2 and goes to see if its him. Why? It's well established that he's an intelligent droid. He knows that there's a lot of astromech droids out there. What would be the odds of R2 being there when he knew that he was out somewhere with Luke.

    RETURN OF THE JEDI
    *This one I feel is a bit major. From what we
  4. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2011
    star 2
    Have a few responses that haven't been covered yet(or that I have a different take on the response already given).

    A New Hope:

    Why the Empire couldn't detect lifeforms on the Falcon in the Death Star....

    Remember a 2-man scanning crew was sent on board the Falcon. Had they not been jumped by our heroes, they probably would've picked up lifeform readings hiding in the smuggling compartments.

    Why Luke and Ben didn't just buy their own ship instead of hiring Han?:

    They were broke. Han originally wanted 10,000 all in advance(Luke commented they could "almost" buy their own ship with that, but they still couldn't afford it). Ben offered 2,000 now(money they will eventually get selling Luke's speeder), and 15,000 when they get to Alderaan(Bail Organa would've probably covered the rest of the bill).

    As far as Leia knowingly leading the Empire to the hidden Rebel base....you all should check out the "How it should've ended" videos on YouTube. There's one for ANH and ESB. The ANH one mentions that very complaint. They're pretty funny cartoons.

    I'm a fan of the different Star Wars parodies( like MAD, Family Guy, and Robot Chicken), and they highlight some of the flaws in the movies...but they haven't ruined my enjoyment of any of the Star Wars movies....well maybe Family Guy did, because I can't watch ANH anymore without the Blue Harvest gags popping in my head when that scene comes up in the movie. lol
  5. Gundark31 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2010
    star 1
    Most of this can be explained by Star Wars being a space fantasy movie and as such doesn't have to comply with reality, there are of course a few story flubs that are present.

    Many people aren't aware of this but George Lucas's idea of the Star Wars movies was that they were a fanciful tale told by R2 D2 and C3P0 many years after ROTJ, of course the droids weren't present for many important events in the saga so some factual detail is of course not exactly what really happened in their fictional world.

    I think Lucas still adheres to this idea including through ROTS but outside of a few short live action specials I don't think anything has been done with it.The Journal of the Whills stuff tied into this.
  6. Darthman1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2011
    star 1
    Good call on the scanning crew and about the Han thing. I was wrong on those. (Admittedly it's been a while since I've watched all the films, I'm doing a marathon of them as we speak)
  7. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Ha, I like seeing the sacred OT get its comeuppance, after the PT being trashed all these years. Mind you, I love those movies dearly as well, but I'm always glad to see the double standard taken away. Here's my observations:

    ANH

    -- The positions the Rebels take as the Stormtroopers board the Blockade Runner. It makes for a lot of dramatic build-up, but couldn't they have taken cover behind corners? Erected some barriers to protect themselves? They're just sitting ducks kneeling in formation out there. It's like Barry Lyndon in a hallway.
    -- The Blockade Runner had communications equipment before the Star Destroyer blasted it, right? Couldn't they have transmitted the plans to different Rebel ships or bases before being captured? And for that matter, wherever those plans did come from, couldn't they have sent them to more than just one ship, to make sure they wouldn't be confiscated so easily?
    -- "Send a distress signal. And then inform the Senate that all aboard were killed!" So why were they taking so many Rebel prisoners, then? Are they just going to shoot them all later, like in The Great Escape? If so, why not show it, like the PT criticizers always insist we should've seen during the invasion of Naboo in TPM?
    -- "Look sir, droids!" I'm a little surprised it took them that long to find Threepio and Artoo, given the Empire's resources. Took their sweet time about tracking down the plans to their doomsday weapon. Two whole days go by before they even find where the droids themselves were bought! Too bad the Empire didn't have Jack Bauer on their side.
    -- "Sand People... Let's go have a look!" Well, Luke's not too bright, is he?
    -- "Wait, Luke! It's too dangerous!" Another example. Come to think of it, why didn't the Empire leave a couple of troops behind in case anybody came back? They probably would be able to tell that three people lived at the Lars homestead, and that person possibly would be returning with the droids.
    -- Ibid on peoples' comments about the necessity of Han Solo. How do they know he isn't just gonna sell them out? Luke probably can fly just as well, so why bring a third person along, especially one who they'd find out has some pretty substantial baggage with the law himself if only they'd stuck around a little longer and met up with Greedo (yeah, I know the Stormtroopers were scoping out the place, but still).
    -- Oh, and on Greedo. I don't care who shoots first. Why? Because there's no legal difference between shooting someone who shoots at you, and shooting somebody who sticks a gun in your face. It's still self-defense, not cold-blooded badassery. Get over it. I will admit that I prefer the original editing where it's just a series of close-ups, but I don't care about the extra blast itself.
    -- I wonder why they don't have heavy guns on Tatooine to stop wanted ships from escaping from the Empire, especially at port-of-call cities like Mos Eisley. Maybe it's interference from the Hutts, whatever.
    -- Ibid on the inability to find life forms on the Falcon. Forget life-form scanners, all you'd need is some basic X-Ray or thermo-optics to check for heat signatures. They have those in the GFFA, right? They had'em in the 70's, anwway.
    -- Here's a basic logical flaw that's present in all the movies, but ANH and the OT especially: why do none of the bottomless bits ever have guard-rails? And if you're going to not have guard rails, why put so many important devices near those pits?
    -- So, those Stormroopers guarding Threepio and Artoo. All it takes is a couple of lame excuses, and the droids are free to continue collaborating with the Rebels? Especially when it's already well known that one of the droids is carrying the all-important Death Star plans? Guess that trooper didn't get the memo.
    -- On the matter of Leia's decision to fly back to the Rebel Base, I think that's fine. A calculated risk on her part. She's aware of the danger. What I don't get is the necessity of the Empire to send a squad of TIE fighters to chase the Falcon if the ploy was that obvi
  8. Gundark31 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2010
    star 1
    I'll answer these 3 for fun.

    The Probe Droid bit is because of a deleted scene, it had found and destroyed a rebel outpost before Han and Chewie found it so the Empire already knew about the Rebel presence also Han didn't blow it up it self destructed.

    With Luke landing near Yoda on Degobah, a wizard did it.A wizard named Yoda.

    Vader's suit was designed for strength not appearance.Vader's robot hand is capable of taking direct laser blast hits, Luke's human looking one can't take that kind of punishment.
  9. WWu777 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Here are some new logic flaws I just added.

    Star Wars A New Hope

    - Before the Falcon was captured by the Death Star, Governor Tarkin ordered his Imperial officers to execute Princess Leia immediately, after she lied to them about the location of the Rebel base. So how could Han, Luke, Ben and Chewie have so much time to sneak into the Death Star and rescue Princess Leia, if she was scheduled to be "executed immediately"? I guess "immediately" must be a long time in the Star Wars universe. lol

    The Empire Strikes Back

    - At the beginning of the film, Han Solo tells Leia and the General that he has to leave because he's still a wanted man being tracked by bounty hunters. But at the end of the first Star Wars film, Han had collected his reward for rescuing Princess Leia, and said that he was going to use it to pay off his debts to Jabba the Hutt. If he did that, then why is he still a wanted man at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back? That should have been explained, but it wasn't.

    - When Luke escapes the Wampa cave on Hoth, he turns on his light saber and cuts off the Wampa creature's arm. Then he runs outside in the snow storm to slowly freeze to death until Han rescues him and digs a shelter. However, wouldn't it have been far safer for Luke to just finish off the Wampa creature with his lightsaber, so that he could use its cave as shelter, rather than go out and risk freezing to death? That Wampa was clearly no match for his light saber.

    - During the Hoth battle scene, the Imperial Snow Walkers' armor hull was impenetrable to laser fire from the Rebel Snow Speeders. Luke says after firing at it, "That armor's too strong for blasters. Use harpoons and tow cables. That might be our only chance of stopping them." Yet when one of the Snow Walkers collapses after its legs were tied up by harpoon cables from a Snow Speeder, another Snow Speeder flew over it, shot the top part of it, and blew it up. Now, if you can blow up a Snow Walker just by shooting the top of it, then why didn't they do that earlier, instead of saying that their armor was too strong for their blasters and that they had to use harpoon cables? Huh?

    - When Luke's Snow Speeder crashed, he got out and pulled himself up to the underbelly of a Snow Walker to throw a bomb/grenade into it. Then he detached the cable he was dangling from, and fell straight to the ground from a great height. How could he fall straight down from that high up, which we clearly saw, and not get injured or killed? Instead, he gets up and walks back to the Rebel Base to get into his X-Wing as though he were unharmed.

    - When the Imperial fleet attacked the Rebel base on Hoth, most of the Rebels ended up escaping in transport ships, even though Hoth was surrounded by the Imperial fleet. These transport ships should have been destroyed or captured. Yet they all just slipped past the fleet, after one Rebel ion cannon disabled one Imperial Star Destroyer? WTF? Or could it be that that one ion cannon disabled the whole Imperial fleet? If it could do that, then why did they need to evacuate Hoth? They could have just kept firing with it to smash up the whole Imperial fleet.

    Furthermore, the huge Imperial flagship Executor, which Vader was in, was also above Hoth. Since it looked to be the size of at least ten Star Destroyers, how would the ion cannon disable that? And how could all the Rebel transports get past that and all the Star Destroyers alongside it?

    - If Anakin Skywalker created C3PO, as revealed in the first prequel, then why didn't Vader recognize his own creation when he saw him on Cloud City and in the carbon freezing chamber?

    - If Vader could sense through the Force that Luke is his son, then why didn't he recognize Leia as his daughter in the first two movies when he encountered her?

    Return of the Jedi

    - When Luke returns to Dagobah to complete his Jedi training with Yoda, Yoda tells him that he does not need any more training, and that he must face Vader again to become a fully trained Jedi. How can this be? When he left Yoda and Ben's apparition in Empire Strikes B
  10. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2011
    star 2
    From the scene where Tarkin says to terminate her immediately, to the scene where Vader says She may be of some use to us...it's only 3 minutes between those scenes(broken up by the Falcon coming out of hyperspace and being pulled into the Death Star.

    Han went from taking care of himself to staying and helping the Alliance. All of this is assumption of course(which is all we can do when it's not explained, but how long do you want the movie to be in order to explain every single thing to us?), but Han and his ship are now wanted by the empire. Trying to land someplace like Mos Eisley might get the attention of spies for the Empire. So maybe he figured if the Empire(with all their resources) can't find the Rebels, or him...then neither could Jabba(which he found out he was wrong when they ran into that bounty hunter in Ord Mantell), so at that point he figures he needs to pay Jabba in order to not compromise the Rebellion.

    Maybe Luke's Jedi-in-training persona values all life. The Wampa's are a vicious animal, but no more evil than a bear, or shark, etc. Luke hurt it enough to allow for his escape, but didn't want to kill it.

    It seems to me the Speeders don't have much of a verticle dive capabilities to be able to attack from the top. If they were in X-Wings, it wouldn't be a problem(and since I know you'll ask why they didn't fight in X-Wings?, because it wasn't adapted to the cold yet...and they just finally adapted the Speeders to the cold)

  11. WWu777 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Look how big a Star Destroyer is. Here is a Rebel Cruiser being captured by one and taken into the hangar of its underside.

    [image=http://www.netmoon.com/starwars/image/ships/tantive.jpg]

    Yet compared to the Imperial flagship Executor, the Star Destroyer looks very small.

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/tesb/exechoth4.jpg]

    Yet in Return of the Jedi, Lucas tells us that the Executor was destroyed by one single fighter ramming itself into the bridge? lol. That's like an insect crashing into a castle or mansion and destroying it. lol. So dumb. Lucas must not have all his marbles to expect everyone to buy that. Or he has a fondness for cheesy stupid scenes. He definitely isn't into logic. I guess if Lucas wants something out of the way, he gets it out of the way any way he can, including the dumbest ways. He has no respect for anyone's intelligence.

    Here is that stupid scene from Return of the Jedi.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlKgA6Osooo

  12. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Can I suggest you be a little bit more objective in your reviews. Prefacing a list with "This movie is stupid" doesn't exactly scream of impartiality. Why would I want to read something about a movie when the author has just told you that they hate it, it's dumb, and tedious?
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  13. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2011
    star 2
    When the Rebel ships knock out those giant orb things on top of the Star Destroyer's bridge, that knocked out the bridge deflector shield. The Rebel pilot looses control and rams into the bridge(you know, the place that controls the big ship). The bridge is blowing up, on fire, the ship looses control and falls ramming into the Death Star. Would it crash nose first into the battle station, at the angle it did? Maybe not, but that's were suspension of disbelief comes into play. Disrespecting anyone's intelligence? No.
  14. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    If this doesn't indicate that this thread wasn't about an honest discussion of the flaws of the films, but a 'get-even-ism'/'scorched-earth-tactic' that's supposed the remedy the 'injustice' done towards the PT, then I don't know what is.
  15. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    It's just a matter of what's good for the goose being good for the gander. The OT isn't immune to the same nitpicking as the PT, and if that treatment of the former trilogy seems absurd to you, then the fact that the same treatment of the latter may seem absurd to us should be plain to see. It may be Devil's Advocacy to an extent, but that doesn't mean it's dishonest.
  16. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Did anyone read my post? Most of the "logical flaws" are less black-and-white than the OP makes them seem. There are a few genuine ones, though.


    If there were a thread like this for the PT, I suspect it would be similar. Any problems I personally might have with the PT usually stem less from plot holes than harder-to-define differences in "feel."
  17. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Sorry for the derail, Thrawn.



    ^

    Understood.

    I just happen to think that there's a difference between genuinely criticizing the OT - as Green_Destiny_Sword has done and drg4 does* - and doing it in order to 'even things up' like Jedi_Ford_Prefect seems to be encouraging.

    *mostly towards ROTJ, to which I give him a 'hard time':p , but all in fun
  18. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    I appreciate that, ToschiStation. My ROTJ hatred may be borderline-pathological, but I mean well. :)

    Anyway, no one should take offense to this thread; even the great movies can't withstand close scrutiny in regards to internal logic. Heck, I just revisited Rear Window the other day, and I couldn't help but wonder, ?Why is Raymond Burr always leaving his bloody window open?? Oh, because otherwise there'd be no movie!
  19. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    This is part of my point. Great films can take scrutiny, and in the best of cases deserve it, and should their logic falter, it doesn't really matter in the long run. What bothers me is when people aren't willing to entertain that kind of scrutiny for stuff they love, but use the same kind of scrutiny to justify their hatred for something else. It is a kind of double standard.

    I love Citizen Kane. But let's face it, that movie's a sacred cow, too, and it needs to be looked at harder. One very basic flaw there-- everybody's stories match up about Charles Foster Kane. Wouldn't any of his (former) friends ever spread lies, rumors or gossips about him? Would everybody really tell the truth so readily? Granted, it took Rashomon for that idea to take hold.
  20. Grand_Moff_Jawa Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    People always defend the things they love. To suggest they do otherwise is ridiculous. Yes, there is a strong bias involved, but I see just as much bias in favor of the PT as I do the OT lately. Taking all the flaws of the OT and pitting them against the PT's flaws, I'd take the OT any day as the movies themselves make up for their flaws. When you have flaws on top of a bad movie, that's a no-win situation right there. I don't feel the need to defend the OT. Time has certainly stated the case for them.
  21. Darthman1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2011
    star 1
    Now, no one take offense to this, but I'm curious. Mind you this is coming from somebody who dearly loves all 6 STAR WARS films (and do think overall that the OT is better than the PT) but I want to know something from the people who are basically saying that there's just a magic to the OT. I want anyone willing to answere these questions. This is for both sides to answer.


    1) Which trilogy(ies) do you like?

    2) What age group is the one that ignores basically all logic errors and allows the magic of the film to consume them?

    3) Do you think childhood memories do effect a person's critical view of a film they loved in their childhood?

    4) How old were you when you saw both trilogies for the first time?



    This isn't about the acting, storlyine, or CGI. Just the question at hand.
  22. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    This is the OT forum. Discussion of the Saga goes to the Saga forum, and there are plenty of threads on this there. Let's keep this to the OT
  23. Gundark31 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2010
    star 1
    If you look closely you'll see that one of the Executors engines is on fire, could be part of effects work that was never finished or deleted scene.

    I do agree that if the bridge alone being blown up makes the whole ship crash it's dumb but the Empire seems full of dumb engineers proven by the Death Star 1 and 2.
  24. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2011
    star 2
    Yeah, but the bridge is where the ship is controlled. You lose the bridge/controls, maybe that causes the ship's thrusters to go haywire pitching the nose down, crashing into the Death Star.

    Who knows? But it's not exactly something that's impossible(well impossible in the sci-fi sense)
  25. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I assume it was gravity that pulled the ship into the death star.