Oceania LOL! Apparently, "Free" trade > culture

Since I won, I will shut up now.

Ender_Sai gave you a response, Gatherer, with arguments supported by evidence. You haven't formed any type of counter-argument; you haven't even tried. We all know who's won here, mate, and it's not you

 

Gatherer says: "Can't talk. Eating humble pie."



E_S

 

BecJedi, I think you need to come out of fairy land, and enter the realm of reality my friend.

arguments supported by evidence

WHAT evidence did Ender_Sai present... WHAT BLOODY EVIDENCE. You are fooled by fancy tricks and wizardry!

Just becuase Ender_Sai can cut-and-paste text describing LAW A, does not mean EVENT B happened!

Where is his empirical evidence that EVENT B actually happened?!

Becuase he thinks so, as someone wrote a textbook who said that an Aborigine told him so. So he is only relying on one point of view!

Has he actually interviewed any Aborigine's... Of COURSE not!

No measurable, empirical, researched evidence was ever offered in the slightest!

It is quite laughable that you fell for this, fell for the fashionable notion that it is cool to join any kind of attack on your own race or culture. Come on leftie's... lets bring EVERYONE down to the lowest common denominator!

 

Just out of curiosity, Gath, have you ever interviewed an Aborigine on this issue?

If not, his view is as just as valid as yours - both without any first hand facts.

(Apart from the fact that interviewing merely one person is not enough to establish anything anyway - it would require the interviews of many more.)

 

So you support both sides. Neither are right or wrong. At least you can come to this conclusion, not to the people who can't perform a paradigm shift.

 

Ah good ol' Bruce Lee Ownz0r. It truly is deserving of a genuine OLOLOLOLL!!!!11@ or perhaps even a roofle!

But enough of that, to the topic at hand.

Actually, I haven't really bothered to read the thread, Ajay just told me he'd found the bruce lee pic again and I had to go and see it to grab the link for myself.

But if you really want my opion on the matter, I hate everybody... that's right, even You. So whoever they are, or whatever they did, they probably deserved it anyway.

Probably AWP camping the hostages and deserved the knife kill... or even more embarassing - the flashbang kill. *sigh* what n00bs.

 

OMG Roofle it's teh camp3r! LOL! I pwned j00, awping n00b! R00fl3!

E_S

 

Gath, grow up why don't you. You're like the oldest here, and by God you are the most immature. It's not a bloody contest to see who wins and loses, Mike, despite what YOU may think. This is a forum, and this is a place where we debate things and express our own philosophies and opinions. It's not some cr@ppy competition to see who's smarter or to see who has the best rebutts for arguments.

Besides, what has been pointed out about you - both from me and from others - you should take note about. This is how you come across to people. Just so you know.

So why don't you just give up, Gath. Or we can debate this for another week, if you want to be stupid and childish about it, Mike.

 

Gatherer, you still haven't answered Ender_Sai's argument with any kind of counter-argument. That was my point. You can't attack everyone who disagrees with you if you're not willing to even try and come up with some kind of counter-argument.

 

I would gladly provide a valid counter-argument, however, I won't do so unless I am asked a question that is proven to be based on fact.

 

We are going in circles here. Why is it that no-one respects my opinion, is always quick to bash me, and always defend everyone else?

 

Ender_Sai, you will love this!

I just took the "Are you a Neocon?" quiz, and the results from my answers determined that I am a liberal:

Liberal

Liberals?

* Are wary of American arrogance and hypocrisy
* Trace much of today's anti-American hatred to previous US foreign policies.
* Believe political solutions are inherently superior to military solutions
* Believe the US is morally bound to intervene in humanitarian crises
* Oppose American imperialism
* Support international law, alliances, and agreements
* Encourage US participation in the UN
* Believe US economic policies must help lift up the world's poor

Just goes to show that all quiz's are not accurate in their results!

 

Eh, I have the most conservative score out of anyone in FF Oceania on the political compass.

E_S

 

We are going in circles here.
That we are.

Why is it that no-one respects my opinion, is always quick to bash me, and always defend everyone else?
Firstly, no-one needs to respect your opinion. Hell, I wouldn't give a damn if no one respected my opinion, and I certainly wouldn't change it anyway...unless given reason to. Besides, there are few who do anyway. It's not some contest, and it is good to have people in the threads who have opposing views. The majority, however, disagree with your views on particular subjects. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, Gath...

I think, though, that a lot of people on these forums should keep their opinions (regarding race, homosexuality and the like) away from these forums. There's a lot of unnecessary comments made about race and homosexuality, for example (ie. in this thread and in the 'General Hypocracy' thread, 'The Aboriginal Problem' thread, 'The Vietnamese Boat People Disgrace' thread, the the 'State your moral and ethical views' thread...to name a few...). As I said before, if I was a gay Indigenous Australian, then I would be most offended by some of the purile tripe that is written in these threads.

I think that many of these threads have gone too far, and have turned debates, say about 'Free Trade', into personal attacks against people. I also think that some of the people who post on these boards take advantage of the fact that the rules for posting are pretty lax, and then post whatever the hell they want - much of it insulting towards other races etc.
This is meant to be a forum where we discuss our beliefs and views, sure, but I think it has turned into a place where people flame others unnecessarily, and throw random, baseless accusations around.

And while I may have been guilty of this myself, a lot of it has merely been in defence of others who are being flamed themselves, or because very baseless arguments have impinged upon certain views that I hold.

I think this sort of thing has to stop. We shouldn't be making attacks against people. This is a forum. If you want to go and randomly insult people, do it someplace else.

But come on...we all have stuff in common here, and I'm sure that we can all show some vague semblace of restraint.

 

Gath, I took the test. Colour me unsurprised, I'm a realist. Which is good; I only ever liked Realism in IR theory.

E_S

 

I understand exactly what you are saying, and yes, it is my fault that the topic has degenerated to the extent that it is today.

I actually tried to start this whole issue with noble intentions, ie: I started a thread that recognized the reality that there ARE severe problems in the Aboriginal community when it comes to the areas of health, substance abuse, education, crime, employment, etc...

I wanted to discuss those issues, and debate ways in which we believe that we can improve those areas.

 

...but then this debate(s) turned into a sniping argument about racism and so forth...

But that in itself is not true in all these threads, for example, Gath. In the 'State your moral and ethical beliefs' (or whatever it was called) thread, it just gave people a reason to bitch and whine and discriminate against those who they deemed socially inferior. Many unnecessary comments were made in there (and I ain't just saying by you...). Nothing was discussed about improving anything. If the 'debate' is constructive, then no-one should be running into these sorts of problems and no-one should have to resort to sniping other people...

I don't think ANY of us are in any sort of position to be going around saying how the 'system' can be improved. I really don't. Especially if it is going to end up being a race debate.

And then you might ask what the point is of having a debate at all. Well, in answer to that, I think it's cool to have debates between us FFers. However, I think there should be a point where we see where this 'debate' is going to be taking us, before it degenerates into a sniping session. Debates are fine...but I still think that certain topics in which we don't have any, ANY past experience with (the issues surrounding Indigenous Australians, and in particular homosexuality) should not be discussed at all. It's fine to have an opinion, it really is, but that is all that we have without this 'experience': an opinion.

And no-one's opinion in this thread is correct, because that is all it is. Just someone's opinion, neither right nor wrong.

~Deto the Rabbit

 

You make a good point, however...

Every citizen who is a taxpayer has the RIGHT to question where their money is being spent. You don't need to be an elected official, or have a doctorate or masters to voice your opinion. If I feel that my money going to tax is being spent on wasteless, pointless, unproductive issues, then I have the right to say so.

 

But it doesn't make you right...

 

No it doesn't (that is the point that I have been trying to make to Ender_Sai), but it gives me the right to ask.

Wow, this thread is now turning into a philosophical discussion!

 

Better than a sniping thread, methinks...at least something of progress and something constructive is said...

 

Unlike all the other threads right now, I might add...

 

Back on topic:

The US Congress is now the final barrier in an FTA between Australia and the US. Australia has given up all tarifs on US imports - which is good for the US, given the weakness of the dollar, and good for Dubya, because this means growth in an election year - in exchange for greater access to US markets for Australian exports. The latter includes beef, which will see up to an 18% increase over 3 years, pharmeceuticals, and automobiles, but not sugar. Sugar was the key to the Australian participation, but Mark Valie said that political considerations overruled the hardline stance the Government here had taken.

Deal good for Australia, without the sweetener: Vaile

Australia clinches free trade deal with US

US, Australia sign trade pact

So what does this mean? Well, the music industry won't be happy, because of the e-commerce aspects, but all in all, the US is actually bringing something to the table. More often than not, the US talks about free trade whilst still promoting domestic protectionism, which is regarded by many as a cynical vote-catching tactic. But we're getting something beneficial out of this, so it's really better than I'd hoped for.

E_S

"Look Ma, No Latin!"

 

Why Ender_Sai, maybe you are a closet libertarian after all..

 

I said America wouldn't budge on sugar and they didn't. I expected that. What I didn't expect was "No agreement without sugar" Vaile and "it'd be un-Australian to deal without sugar" Anderson signing up to an agreement that benefits the USA much more than us. As usual, the Australian government has bent over for the Americans.

Look at what the Americans are saying before you think this is a good deal for Australia. In manufacturing alone, they are claiming $2 billion a year from Australia after this deal. We already have a trade deficit with the US of $12 billion dollars. They haven't moved on sugar, have hardly moved on beef and it remains to be seen what concessions we have given in regards to the PBS and cultural regulations. The Americans are claiming big wins on both of them.

All I can say is thank God we have a senate that can review these poor decisions.