London Shootings - Breaking News!!!

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Sinrebirth, Jul 22, 2005.

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  1. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    A man has been chased onto a tube by fifteen gun-wielding police...

    Has been shot 5 times....

    Dead!
  2. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    The BBC report three police officers.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

    He probably just tried to sell them a leather jacket.
  3. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Hmmm.

    And now a Mosque has been surrounded in East London.....

    [face_worried]

    This could get very big
  4. Vlad-the-Inhaler Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 1
    hrmmmm

    lets be hopink dat der police vere sure their man was a 'real unt present' threat....... ve do not vant to vake up vun day unt find ve are livink in America mit der verdammt guns efferyvere.....
  5. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Looks like the manhunt is well and truly on.
  6. veritasuk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 4
    apparantly they think its one of the bombers from yesterday. Plain clothes police have been following him and when he got back on the tube, they went for him.
  7. Baza Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Wow, exciting stuff. I hope they tried to take him alive before shooting him.
  8. Dickie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2005
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but I hope he was shot on sight.
  9. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Witnesses say 3 officers chased him onto a tube, ordered the passengers to get down, got the guy on the floor and shot him 5 times!!!

    The mosque had a bomb scare, but the all clear is given
  10. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Interesting, but good news on the whole I guess.

    Though we can still get a wealth of info from the undetonated bombs yesterday, and even info from this guys body...assuming he's involved.
  11. Vlad-the-Inhaler Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 1
    shoot on sight Dickie?

    on der presumption of guilt?

    maybe this time, der guilty man has received his due, but execution without trial is not a precedent vun should effer celebrate.

    for every real terrorist threatening lives, there are many many innocent men wit der beards unt der rucksacks out there. Vere does it stop?

    only idiots unt americans punch der air ven der police use guns on der 'bad guys'.

  12. Dickie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2005
    star 4
    I didn't punch the air mate, at the end of the day, these guys are terrorists. They should get no chances. Thatcher had the right idea, "We do not negotiate with terrorists.". The Police and Security Services are doing the best they can, they don't need one hand tied behind their backs by the "you can't just kill someone" brigade, because you can. This has just been proved.

    It is that simple.
  13. Pit Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 1999
    star 1
    According to Sky News, unconfirmed reports are saying that no explosives were found on the guy. In a funny way I hope these reports are wrong :confused:
  14. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    *sighs*

    I have this arguement with my father all the time. Using violence against violence doesnt work. I'm not disagreeing that the guy probably deserved it, but in the long term using violence only makes the smaller problems bigger. It grows the more you slap it down.

    We cant destroy terrorism, by its very nature it is a pervading root within society and modern civilisation, so violence only feeds it, creates more dissatisfied people who have lost something and thus turn to terrorism.

    Its not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter of tactics. Cold pragmatism.

    But this arguement does not concern me as much as people taking the law into their own hands and threatening arson on relatives of these terrorists whom may have had nothing to do with this.

    I'm sure people who have read the EU and indeed the SW films know the issue that fighting darkness with darkness does not work and causes destruction; look at the Jedi in the Clone Wars, look at Anakin, look at Luke....

    Wow, I never realise quite how passionate I am about this until I get started.
  15. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    :rolleyes:

    Yes, because a fictional story about people with supernatural powers is the same thing
  16. Happy Ninja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2000
    star 6
    ^ *Snap!*

    I say shoot him! He's a man worth plugging...I just hope it ******* hurt him before he expired.
  17. timbolton Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 5
    Sinrebirth,
    I understand what you are saying and if the world was a lovely place I'd agree with you 100%. However, sometimes it takes an action of violence to stop people. I am and was totally against what we did in Iraq in terms of bombing civilian areas - that has created more hatred and more than likely given the terrorists a huge recruitment drive. What would you do if a foreign power shelled your city and killed family members, friends, work colleagues? I understand the need for retaliation - I also know that hitting civilian targets is the most inhumane reaction anyone can do. Military are fighters, they place themselves on the line, they go into combat situations knowing a bullet may be headed their way. Civilians on the other hand, going about their daily business in their home places, should never be a target. All those Americans who support the IRA should be ashamed at doing so - because the IRA did just that. I was born in Warrington, I will never forgive the IRA for bombing my birthplace. Those that support the new face of terrorism, who say a word in their favour have no right to be part of civilised society. These people, no matter their grievances, have no right to attack civilians. They are less than animals.

    Back to today. I am sorry for the man who died if he was innocent but then look at these facts -

    "Witnesses spoke of panic as a man of Asian appearance wearing a heavy jacket vaulted over barriers at Stockwell station on Friday as he was chased, tackled then shot."

    and

    ""We can confirm that just after 10 a.m. armed officers entered Stockwell Tube station. A man was challenged by officers and subsequently shot. London Ambulance Service attended the scene. He was pronounced dead at the scene," police said."

    http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/news/national/story.htm?linkfrom=Today&link=newsticker&article=SCH145033

    These same facts are appearing on most news websites, radio broadcasts, TV reports and eyewitnesses accounts.

    So ... the day after another bomb scare, an Asian man in a bulky winter coat (one eyewitness described it as such) was challenged by police to stop, he jumped over the barrier, and ran towards the train, the police giving chase. He stumbled onto the train at which point the police caught up, held him to the floor and shot him in the head. Dead. They shot him in the head because if he was a suicide bomber then to shoot him in the body may cause the explosives to go off.

    Do you know what I say to the police? Well done. Why? Because this man did exactly like the Iraqi suicide bombers who charge patrol points. He was challenged to stop. After yesterdays threat, anyone not guilty and seriously have any intelligence in their head would stop and respond to the police's request. Instead this man ran for it, and he got what was necessary to make sure the people on the tube were not blown to bits. If he was a bomber and the police hadn't done what they had done, then many people would be dead now. Instead, some dumb fool who surely must have some brain, is now dead because he did exactly what a terrorist planning to die would do if challenged by police at a period of extra heightened security. The police did what they had to in a moment that could have been as bad as two weeks ago. If he turns out to be innocent, then he was a fool who should have stopped when challenged by police - they did their job. He should have stopped. End of story.
  18. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 6
    What I don't get is why they shot him if they had him pinned to the ground:

    "One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him."

    Seems a little extreme to me.
  19. mvwg3003 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 4
    Oh yes, that policy was extremely successful with Ireland. [face_plain]

    Bush claims the same thing, yet the US has had an unfortunate record of negotiating with "terrorists" when convenient, but that's a different matter.

    Nelson Mandela was once labelled a terrorist and look who he had to go to for support - Qaddafi for chrissakes.

    A few interesting quotes from this BBC news article about today's shooting:

    "I saw an Asian guy run onto the train hotly pursued by three plain-clothes police officers. One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him.
    Five shots. At point blank range?

    "I saw the gun being fired five times into the guy - he is dead," he said.
    [face_plain]

    "They brought in the air ambulance. They did everything they can to revive him. He died at the scene."

    They shot him five times and they expect to be able to revive him? You gotta be kidding me.

    Officers would be trained to aim for the head as shots to the torso could trigger a hidden explosive device, he added.
    Again, five times?
    So now this guy is dead, when looking at the evidence from many sources he didn't appear to be carrying a visible weapon, though there are contradictory reports from witnesses about belt wires being visible etc. Several officers on top of him and they still feel the need to shoot him five times at point blank range?/>
  20. Happy Ninja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2000
    star 6
  21. Gothicjedi666 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 4
    he might of had gun or weapon that couldnt be seen
    or they thought he did
  22. timbolton Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 5
    Yeah moosemousse and mvwg3003, you both make two good points about what I am also confused over the situation, despite what I said above.

    Re: Why shoot when they have him on the ground?
    Not being there I don't know where his arms were. If they were under his body and he was trying to "do something" (such as an action of priming the bombs), then I understand why they shot him dead. If they had his arms pinned, then I am not so sure. Let's see what the police reveal, as there will probably have to be an enquiry.

    Re: Five shots
    This is the most controversial part of the today's event. It is odd - why 5? Excessive? Yes I would say so, but again let us see why. Was it an emotional response from the officer who was still doing the right duty? Maybe.

    I stand by what I said - anyone with any brains should know not to do what this man did at this moment in time. In front of armed police officers, especially if he was innocent. There was no need to run from them in that situation.
  23. Gothicjedi666 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2005
    star 4
    wonder if he was wearing bullet proof vest or something would explain why they had shoot him so many time
  24. mvwg3003 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 4
    Re: Five shots
    This is the most controversial part of the today's event. It is odd - why 5? Excessive? Yes I would say so, but again let us see why. Was it an emotional response from the officer who was still doing the right duty? Maybe.

    Christ, I hope our Police officers aren't turning into American cops. An emotional response, to shoot a man five times in the head? Goodness knows what a judge would have made of that if it were a civilian who had carried that out. "Shoot-to-kill" indeed.









    I've been watching to much FoxNews for it to be good for me. [face_sick]

    EDIT:
    "wonder if he was wearing bullet proof vest or something would explain why they had shoot him so many time"
    Doubt they would have gone for the chest because of risk of explosive as BBC report states.
  25. MANDALORIAN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 4
    Specialist officers had been tailing the man shot at Stockwell Tube station from his home, says Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt.

    Police believed the Asian man was responsible for an attempted attack on the nearby Oval Tube on Thursday and had set up surveillance on him.


    Brunt said officers had followed the man from his home and that the initial plan was to arrest him.

    But from his home to Stockwell Tube, events overtook police and marksmen were forced to shoot.

    Despite temperatures of around 22C (72F), officers and witnesses said the man was wearing a heavy coat under which it was feared may have been a bomb.

    Brunt said: "Intelligence officers had suggested he was the bomber from Thursday.

    "Officers were confronted with the very real possibility that this man did have a bomb."



    Ok.

    1. He was a suspect from yesterdays bombings.

    2. He was wearing a winter jacket that appeared to be concealing something.

    3. He ran from police when challenged.

    4. He ran aboard a TUBE TRAIN !


    I would say, although nasty and unpleasant, the police didn't have that much choice. It probably looked like the man was trying to get to the train to detonate a device. You have to take him down. Better a suspected terrorist dies than another trainload of innocent people.


    Anyone that runs from armed police is wilfully risking their life anyway.



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