Lord Mauly Mall decision

OK Carter here's the problem we see.

Problem= LMM's bad attitude toward the community and the poster's as well as his abuse of his position.

Symptom=Spam.

You treated the symptom with a slap on the wrist. Why didn't you treat the problem?

 

I miss I_D

 

"You treated the symptom with a slap on the wrist. Why didn't you treat the problem?"

The problem really started in the Phantom Menace forum a few days prior to the spam posts, and spiraled out of control from there.

QGJ23, future admin violations will be dealt with accordingly.

Well, it's getting way too late. Good nite all, and I suppose we'll continue this discussion tomorrow.

 

The problem really started in the Phantom Menace forum a few days prior to the spam posts, and spiraled out of control from there.

That doesn't answer the question. Why wasn't this problem addressed properly?

 

Good nite all, and I suppose we'll continue this discussion tomorrow.

Will the continued discussion include how the administration plans on dealing with this problem (as well as getting some people in charge around here to hold themselves rather than users accountable for their own actions) or will it be yet another round of thinly veiled ad hominem attacks from members of the administration??

 

The problem really started in the Phantom Menace forum a few days prior to the spam posts, and spiraled out of control from there.

And because it is "out of control", that means that it shouldn't be dealt with? ?

If this discussion is to continue tomorrow in any sort of productive fashion, the administration needs to come forward with some willingness to deal with future problems of this nature accordingly, and not with relaxed punishments. Saying that the issue at hand is only LMM's spamming is incorrect. The gripe against him from the start was about his superiority and arrogance towards posters, which is obviously extremely unbecoming of a member of the administrative staff. The spamming, IMO, was only the icing on the cake really. It only served to demonstrate the point that people like Gay-len Kenobi were trying to make; it was not the point in and of itself.

Hopefully something productive can come of this, because I have a feeling the thread will be locked by tomorrow afternoon.

JMA

 

Carter,

One of the original points brought up in a previous thread discussing this was;

Why is LMM a mod instead of a VIP, when his contributions are limited to staff duties?

If it appears that LMM is simply a mod because of his work on the graphics of TFN, why not demote him to VIP permanently?

Darth_AYBABTU, Carter is remaining very netural in this. Let's create an argument that will improve the Council.

 

For what it's worth during the run up to AOTC LMM was one of the few posters worth lookinng out for.
He's always seemed pretty dead on to me.

It seems that he had a disagreement and this disagreement was followed by some mild spamming.

His punishment seems, to me, to be overly harsh compared to other recent spammers.

The classic complaint against this administration has been that action is not taken against mods who break the rules. But that has happened here. Action has been taken and, for the crime commited, it's suitably harsh. I really don't know what there is left to moan about unless this is about personal vendetta's.

 

"The problem really started in the Phantom Menace forum a few days prior to the spam posts."

[Nute]Finally, we are getting results.[/Nute]

Yes, the problem was quite thouroughly displayed in the TPM thread. Yes, it was long before the spamming event of the year. But it isn't just a matter of public relations. It isn't just that he didn't dodge questions effectively or that he wasn't vague enough. His attitude revolves around his position as a staff member, and he has stated that he considers this to mean that his opinion is more important and valid than the rest of us non-staff members.


It started with, "Man that banner is sweet! I just like coming to this forum to see these graphics. It's one of my best 'big head banners' if I do say so myself." in response to the handful of negative opinions. Not the most reasonable way to deal with criticism, but not yet a problem.

Then there was, "Eh it works for me and I have a very discerning eye for these sort of things." in response to the next criticism.

Then in response to "But this place doesn't belong to you, so your personal opinion on what should be in the banner is irrelvant."
...we get, "Um, I'm a TFN staff member who creates banners so my opinion is important if someone asks me to make a new banner or if I decide to make one on my own accord. I'm offered the opportunity to create things and that's what I do with little to no input from anyone else because they trust my instincts for these sort of things which is why I'm a part of the staff. "

Then, "I'm actually enjoying all this for the simple fact that I knew by adding Dooku to the banner it would cause some controversy."

Are you seeing the pattern here? It wasn't until AFTER those posts that the more flame-like responses started. It was after his 'ego' and attitude was demostrated that people began to take this so personally.

The problem originated with him, and how he, speaking as a "TFN staff member who creates banners so [his] opinion is important," made an ass of himself. And then when the problem was addressed in Comms, he only continued. Then he spammed.

He drew all of our attention to his pretty colors and title. He made the specific point that since he is a staff member, he can do, say, or include/exclude from banners whatever the hell he wants. And then with his final post, he said "Hate to disappoint you folks but I'm actually valuable around here. Are you? Would you be missed?" In fewer words, he was declaring himself indispensible to the JC, and that no one could touch him. He might as well have said, "They will never demote me, so in your face!"

"Hello, what do you expect from a 32 year old Star Wars geek named LORD Mauly Mall[?]"

Well, from someone who was responsible and mature enough to be embraced as a staff member, I expected just the slightest bit of self control.

"Now get a life. Grow up."

So well said. Not quite a flame, but just on the border. Nicely done.


The point of all of this is: There are plenty of other people who could fill the exact same role and be less of an embarassment to TF.N's staff. Hell, I bet there are a good 50-100 professional graphics designers out there who would love a shot at getting their work on one of the most popular SW board on the net. At least twice as many designers that do graphics work as a hobby. And I bet any of them could manage to be a lot more (at the very least; publically) humble and polite along the way.

The JC doesn't need this one guy. There are plenty of others waiting in the wings. He boasted that his position as a staff member is a card blanche for his attitude and behavior. And since he will be right back to where he was before all this started, you have shown that to be the truth.

And, shock of shocks, we don't like it. We don't agree that that kind of attitude and egotistical behavior should go unpunished, and even encouraged by the consistant refusal to even acknowledge that

 

Well said, Gay-Len. I have no personal bias against LMM whatsoever. I've never met the guy. But there's no reason we should have to tolerate his attitude. He's not indispensible. He's arrogant and rude and can't accept criticism.

 

If I spam in exactly the same manner LMM did, will I get the same punishment, a whopping 2 days banned -- Just_A_Slacker

Actually, if you were spamming in the 3SA, and it was first offense, you would only receive a warning via PM as not to embarrass you in front of other users.

If it continued, you would still only receive a 24hr spank. And so on.

Why is LMM a mod instead of a VIP, when his contributions are limited to staff duties? -- QueenDorme

LMM is a TFN staffer and also a general moderator, helping out in all the Forums. He is not assigned to just one or two Forums like most of the other regular moderators. So he is a bit more than a regular staffer, hence the full moderator status.

 

Out of interest, where are the other admins? I've seen precious little of Padme Bra, SOTS, or NathanDahlin in this thread, or any other Comms threads, come to that. Carter seems to be handling JC admin matters exclusively these days.

 

Hey... they decided a rule was broken and dealt out punishment. That's their choice and noone elses.

Every member on this board is guilty of spam at some time or another. If it is in JCC it is seen as entertainment. Otherplaces it is seen as breaking the rules.


To put things in the proper context, here is the post just before the post that gay len posted above. It wasn't him just posting that out of the blue...


"But this place doesn't belong to you, so your personal opinion on what should be in the banner is irrelvant. The banner is for TPM, not the entire Star Wars saga. Take Dooku out and add Jar Jar."


Before this post, everything was just fine and LMM was answering questions and taking constructive criticizm.

Somebody telling him his opinion doesn't matter? So he tells them that his opinion DOES matter because he has been put in charge of those things.

LMMs reply post was not arrogance. It was stated as a fact.

He then began to get flamed from all sides.

He began to spam when he became so frustrated he had nothing else to say. He could have flamed back, but did not.

Which brings up another question. What has happened to those who were flaming him?
It appears nothing? Justice must have been served...

 

He began to spam when he became so frustrated he had nothing else to say.

Of course! That's perfectly acceptable! That's what we expect from a Moderator!

 

Yes, work in the public relations department is in order and I've been in discussions with him about it.

Why is it that his buddy Carter, who backed him blindly through the entire episode, is the one who is "discussing" it with him?

Somebody telling him his opinion doesn't matter? So he tells them that his opinion DOES matter because he has been put in charge of those things.

LMMs reply post was not arrogance. It was stated as a fact.

It was arrogance. It can be nothing else but arrogance. He stated his opinion was correct, and factual, because of his position on the staff. His opinion was correct, because of his position on the staff. That is pure BS!!

 

Since this is the first opportunity we've had to respond to LMM's last post in the original thread, I am going to repost it here, and then reply to it.

My friends, I have been here since 1999.
I have carved my niche at this place by being
me, Lord Mauly Mall. I have gained
a reputation through years of experiences
most of them I am glad to say were
pleasant.

Over the past three years I've given you discussion, pictures, art, music, sounds, videos, and vision.

I'm not PreacherBoy or Padme Bra or Dehrian or Fatboy Roberts or Vertical or Sil or Sturm or Chyren or solojones or Simone or Darth_AYBABTU(thank god) or GCC or JMT or Grilled-Sarlacc or Cetera or Liz Skywalker or GriffZ or Sapient or Dagsy or citizen-tom or Gay-LenKenobi or wstraka5 or MaidenLumpé or Pizzathahut or Amidala Starkiller or KnightWriter or Josh Griffin or Scott Chitwood or Carter or DarthOutletMall or ...and Just for Maul or DarthMaul13 or countless others.

I'm Lord Mauly Mall and I'm here for a reason. Are you?

Recently I've closed your threads, banned your trolls, created your banners, well actually I've been doing that for a while too and taken all your crap. And I don't like it.

Am I immune from rules? No. In this case, yes. Why? Because this is essentially my thread. If I want to spam my own thread I feel I have the right. Spam your own thread. I could care less. But this thread became mine by page 2. I was even going to rename this thread LMM'S LYNCHING but I didn't. I have respect for the original author, however wrong I think they might be.

So look if you want my head on a platter, forget it. Hate to disappoint you folks but I'm actually valuable around here. Are you? Would you be missed? I've contributed and distributed more content over the years than most of you could dispense in a lifetime and it hasn't stopped! So let me do my thing.

Is that being arrogant?

Hello, what do you expect from a 32 year old Star Wars geek named LORD Mauly Mall. Geezus my hole persona is based on an exclusive elit group known as the Sith, folks. So do yourself a favor and don't stress yourself out about technicalities and worry about when it's your golden time in the spotlight. Because, oh yeah it'll come if you stick around.

Forget me, I'm disappointed in a whooole bunch of you out there right now and believe me, I never forget. That's the sad thing about all this. You're dissing me out in the open like this and you get excited about it! Like yeah this is the reality thread for the day to loiter in. Well I'm glad you enjoyed the show. Now get a life. Grow up. Do whatever it takes to see beyond any of this so you realize how pointless it is.

Are you trying to stop me from being me?
Lord Mauly Mall:
TFN staff member
Artist team
Moderator

Most importantly, have I hurt anyone here today or yesterday or the day before?

Have I ever banned any one of you to make you think so low of me? Oh wait D_A aside, anyone else? None of this is arrogance, my friends. I just know who I am and I know how important around here I am. I also know how to articulate my thoughts in coherent patterns to develop communication.

Two closing points:

-I want the person who happens upon this thread to read every word of mine in both threads and tell me what the real problem is.

-Count exactly how many times I've apologized in this thread. Yes that's right, apologized for being me, Lord Mauly Mall. And brush your teeth.


Now if you'll excuse me, I have my own thread in Community about component video cables I need to reply to.



|_|\/|\/|

I'm not...Darth_AYBABTU(thank god)...

Personal flame of Darth_AYBABTU, which was never responded to by AYBABTU due to tact, and the interest of seeing the admins take care of things. They clearly haven't, and I know AYBABTU was pretty upset about this.




Am I immune from rules? No. In this case, yes. Why? Because this is essentially my thread. If I want to spam my own thread I feel I have the right. Spam your own thread.

 

*yawns* More drama


Here's my take on this: I didn't see the spams, but I saw the flames and LMM's immature posts. I hate to say this to a really old friend, but he had it coming, and like one of the other posters said, if he's just on staff, why not demote him to VIP permanantly? If he's not doing any good with Mod status, yet is helping out with the banners, throw him down to VIP and keep him there.




...and a Jango

 

*yawns* More drama

It's not just "drama", and labeling at such does nothing but take away from the serious questions that are posed and need answering.

I find it absolutely hysterical that whenever the administration comes under any fire whatsoever, there is always somebody forever crying "DRAMA! DRAMA ALERT!" no matter how valid or well argued the points may be.

JMA

 

Yeah, but at least this "drama" is having an affect. How many regular posters do you see on the admins side of this? Not many. Most think this was handled poorly, and that the decision reached was unacceptable.

 

This thread has turned into open season on LMM, in a thread about his own punishment for chrissakes. And some of you are talking about showing tact?

The fact of the matter remains, this thread topic is about the discipline resulting from spam posts by a moderator.

 

Carter-

Then a new thread needs to be created addressing the real issue. Spam was only the icing on a very nasty cake.

Besides, I'm curious. What has anyone here done besides state the facts? ? Open season? We're just using his own words against him...

JMA

 

The fact of the matter remains, this thread topic is about the discipline resulting from spam posts by a moderator.

So the rest of our concerns have no relevance, whatsoever? If we can't bring them up here, where can we bring them up?

 

It isn't open season on LMM. It is open season on exactly why the decision reached was unacceptable. Spam wasn't the only thing done. This was handled poorly. Covering for LMM isn't going to get you anywhere, Carter. This is another legitimate complaint, and we won't be shut out of the issue.

 

"This thread has turned into open season on LMM, in a thread about his own punishment for chrissakes. And some of you are talking about showing tact?"

Lunacy. Can you try to deflect attention from these real issues any more blatantly? You persist in ignoring our questions as to why the whole of the event was not taken into consideration. We want an answer as to why his general disdain and disrespect for the community was left unaddressed.

Again, I ask, Is this the sort of behavior and attitude that the Administration believes best represents its interests, and if not, then why will he retain his moderator status?

Until that question is adequately answered, this discussion must continue.

AYBABTU?

 

Darth_AYBABTU, as an advisory council member, this is a perfect opportunity for you to take the Leadership Council decision to the Advisory Council.