Lord Mauly Mall decision

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Carter-TFN, Sep 9, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Geez, some of you people are merciless. Really. A two day spank and a one week demotion for this offense, and if he does it again, a longer ban and he losses his colors for good makes perfect sense to me.

    Having said that, is it necessary for LMM to be a mod in order to be a staffer? Seriously, an honest question. If he doesn't need mod powers to do his job, why not just keep him a VIP (provided he behaves)?
  2. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    "The JC SHOULD NOT no CANNOT be run as an old boys club where a group of stogey old posters who have sworn oaths to each other keep the reigns of power. Is it run that way?"

    The sad part is that many good mods have left over the years because that's exactly the way it is.
  3. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    I would also like to thank AYBABTU for his representation on this thread. This is an issue that ought to be discussed in public.
  4. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Out of interest, where are the other admins? I've seen precious little of Padme Bra, SOTS, or NathanDahlin in this thread, or any other Comms threads, come to that. Carter seems to be handling JC admin matters exclusively these days


    Yes, spot on, recently in the past month or so it seems that Carter is handling mostly everything.

    Also, I agree with almost everything Darth_AYBABTU says. It may just be my opinion, but I think most JCers would like to see the discussion take place here rather than behind closed doors.

  5. Pudge_Rodriguez Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Perhaps the other admins are staying silent because they disagree with the decision?
  6. Red_Oktobur Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 6
    I don't know, but bringing a sock in isn't that great of an idea... [face_plain]



    ...and a Jango
  7. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    "The JC SHOULD NOT no CANNOT be run as an old boys club where a group of stogey old posters who have sworn oaths to each other keep the reigns of power."

    But it is, and you shouldn't ever expect it to change. The very process of admins nominating and voting in new admins guarantees that the process will be as biased and oligarchical as possible.

    I, too, am curious to hear the opinions of some other mods and admins, especially some of the newer members of the Mod Squad who aren't yet completely given over to the games of politicking for power only and quietly being bullied by the more senior admins' biases.
  8. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Thats to bad, to see LMM banned for two days :(
  9. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    The very process of admins nominating and voting in new admins guarantees that the process will be as biased and oligarchical as possible.

    I never saw any evidence of favouritism coming into play during the 18 odd months I was a mod here.

    I, too, am curious to hear the opinions of some other mods and admins, especially some of the newer members of the Mod Squad who aren't yet completely given over to the games of politicking for power only and quietly being bullied by the more senior admins' biases.

    Again, I don't recall seeing any of this politicking for power while I was there. Why do so many non-mods assume that the mods are behaving like little Hitlers behind closed doors? [face_plain]
    And when you think about it, nearly all the longstanding moderators have gone. Bob, DL, Jasman, Preacherboy, etc. Most of the current moderators are fairly new.
  10. McNerf-Burger Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 5
    I havent read the entire thread, so this may have been spoken of before. But, in theory, shouldnt the mods, the makers and enforces of the rules, should be most familiar with them and the proper ways of JC behavior. Correct? Thusly, it seems to I, that they should be dealt with MORE harshly than regular members when they break rules, not get off easier. A 2 day banning is indeed sufficient punishment for spamming a thread, for us regular users. But why, and Im not trying to be rude against LMM or anything because I have nothing against him, would the JC want such people within the modship? I do not understand the big deal about punishing mods when they commit rudeness or acts of spammery. I dont think its to extreme to suggest that mods should not get second chances. Sure, like anybody else, they should be able to return to the boards as a member who posts and carries on in a jolly good manner, but they should not be given their moderator postition back.
  11. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    "Why do so many non-mods assume that the mods are behaving like little Hitlers behind closed doors?"

    Umm... because the person who posted that statement used to be a mod and was in fact promoted long before you were? ;)
    You should have looked around the mod squad a bit closer, CA. I'm here only to give my honest opinion on the situation, since I stand to gain nothing either way.

    (I have a bad feeling they're going to drag me kicking and screaming out of this forum now... )

    Edit: References to Nazis were not mine.
  12. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    "Why do so many non-mods assume that the mods are behaving like little Hitlers behind closed doors?"

    Because the mods have pulled some questionable stunts over the past few months, that's why. [face_plain]

    GO 'CLONES!
  13. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    Umm... because the person who posted that statement used to be a mod and was in fact promoted long before you were?

    You also left a long time ago, so I'm curious how you seem to know what's been happening in there recently.

    I'm here only to give my honest opinion on the situation, since I stand to gain nothing either way.

    Likewise.
  14. Jobo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    I'd have to agree with Stryphe. Does LMM really NEED to be a mod to be a staff member? I mean, Carter does stuff like upload banners-- his level makes sense. But, nothing against LMM, is mod really necessary?
    _jOBO
  15. Obi_Wan_01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    No offence, but I personally think the Ban period should be a little longer after reading that post, intended to me or not.

    So, if LMM was allowed back as a VIP or not, loosing all the respect, you think he would post and if he did post, would anyone care?

    So would LMM want to come back? Thats also another question.
  16. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    So would LMM want to come back? Thats also another question.

    That's not a question, that's a virtual guarantee (that he'll return).

    GO 'CLONES!

  17. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    "You also left a long time ago, so I'm curious how you seem to know what's been happening in there recently."

    I guess I must be the mod squad hacker. [face_laugh]

    Seriously, the answer to that? Because human nature doesn't change, and neither does mod nature. There are a lot of people on this site who are obsessed with becoming administrators and obsessed with climbing an imagined ladder of power all the way to the top. Plus, I don't think you can contend with the notion that the kind of (nearly) absolute, unchecked power the admins get when they decide who to promote next will sometimes end in at least a separation from reality if not an outright abuse.

    Edit: Anyway, this is a digression. Mod- and old boy network- bashing will get us nowhere. If I'm even remembering my original post anymore, I think what I wanted to hear was more mod opinions on this issue. I know you guys don't generally like to air your dirty laundry in public, but I think in this case it's important.
  18. Jar Jar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1998
    star 4
    I think it is honestly kind of sickening to see what is happening not only here, but many places on this forum. There is this prevailing attitude that Mods=The enemy that I don't understand. You guys act like mods hate you and want to beat down any originality when all they do is try to keep the peace and maintain some sense of order. Yes, LMM was out of control and made mistakes but I can see why even if it's wrong.

    Think about this. Let's say you're a poster here and an artist. After a few years of being who you are and contributing some pretty good artwork, someone says, "I'm gonna make you a mod."

    You become a mod and you now aren't just doing this forum thing for fun, but as a doesn't pay a red cent part to sometimes full time job. Now you don't just do artwork when you feel inspired but out of a sense of duty, and the bar has gone way up for quality because board member expect more and your time spent greatly increases. Not only that, but you have to try to respond to every private message you get from users about threads and try to make the best judgements possible as neutrally as possible when it comes to handling them and other users. Effectively, your once care-free being a member days are over but at least folks will appreciate you for what you try to do right? I mean they don't expect any human being to perfect right?

    Wrong!

    Anymore all you get told is that you are a dictator by people you don't even know. You have to defend policies which for the most part make perfect sense but some view as a "Meinen Kompf". You rightfully lock a thread only to have the user open another demanding an exact explanation and seeming to try and incite a virtual mutiny. Now and even worse is this perspective that to be a Mod you must have pristine countenance and unbelievable wisdom when you are in fact giving your time away.

    Would you want this job? If you took crap from folks long enough, don't you think you might do something rash?

    Seriously people, get with it! Mods are fallable people and will mess up. If I ever became a mod, I would too. I don't think it would be perhaps as abusive as LMM but you never know unless you are in those shoes.

    Oh and here's another thing, Mods do contribute more than what 90% of us (me being included) do, and I think that it does deserve a double-standard when it comes to disciplinary measures. Ever hear of time off for good behavior? Well, that has a certain amount of truth in this case. Now if he does anything like this again, it's time to go and I'm with all of you, but hopefully he has learned and will change his behavior.

    Oh well, enough from this rambling oldbie fool. Time to go back to casting stones.

  19. QueenDorme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 3
    Members, please don't make Carter the scapegoat here.

    I personally believe that the sentence handed to LMM was fine except for the fact that he wasn't permanently demoted to VIP.
  20. John of the collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 1998
    star 4
    "But it is, and you shouldn't ever expect it to change. The very process of admins nominating and voting in new admins garuantees that the process will be as biased and oligarchical as possible."

    But it didn't used to be that way. :(
    Sour Grapes? Perhaps, but I find it hard to accept that this situation can never be fixed.

    I don't know if my accusation about an ole boys network is true or not, but there are plenty of people that do believe it. It seems to me that either it is true, and the system needs serious help or it isn't true and the mods and TFN Staff collectivly have possibly the worst PR on the Internet.
  21. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I'd have to agree with Stryphe. Does LMM really NEED to be a mod to be a staff member? I mean, Carter does stuff like upload banners--

    You mean my post wasn't ignored? Woo-hoo!! Anyway, my comment wasn't a bash against LMM. I'm just wondering, does he really need to be an admin? If not, give him red colors and a title. Good bet says a lot (though not all) of the complaining would stop, and also, I don't think admin powers should be handed out to people who don't need them.

    Now, if he does need the mod status to be a staff artists for reasons unknown to me, then give him a couple of chances, and if he blows it one or two more times, knock him back down to a regular user and give the job to someone else. But seriously, most of you people in here are really a bit too bloodthirsty for my tastes. Dudes, reality check, this is just a message board.
  22. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    Wow gone for 24 hours and this erupts....

    In the seven pages of this thread, not one mod has answered this question:

    "Why does LMM need mod powers?"

    I mean essentially his job is banner maker, which he does a fine job at. You want to give him VIP status, fine. But why does he need mod powers? How does being a banner maker make one qualified to be a mod?

    And this thread has been open for nearly 24 hours and not one Admin. has come in. You know since Vert stepped down, it seems that the mod squad is a great wall of silence (there are exceptions but I can count them on one hand).
  23. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    And this thread has been open for nearly 24 hours and not one Admin. has come in.

    For me personally, there's a simple reason for that. Dealing with the situation when it first came up (the night of it and then the day after) was exhausting and almost depressing at times.

    Aside from that, there's also the fact that Vertical has said things well, and I don't see a need to say some of the same things over again. I for sure have been reading and listening, but for multiple reasons, I haven't actually got involved in the thread itself.
  24. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    I'm not talking about you KW, I'm talking about Bra, SOTS and Nathan. Don't they make up the Leadership Council? It seems to me that they've appointed Carter their press secretary to answer the questions(or avoid in this case)they don't want to.

    And I'm sure the situation has been discussed ad nausem in the MS, but we don't have access to the MS. I don't know their opinions on the matter.

  25. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    And this thread has been open for nearly 24 hours and not one Admin. has come in.

    I can see why. They probably wouldn't want to get any more involved than they have to, but that's just me.
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