Oceania Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King (Platinum Special Extended Edition)

I bought mine at Kmart for $54. Dad promptly took it out of my workbag on my way out the door this afternoon, so he could watch it

 

Just finished watching the EE ROTK BRILLIANT!
It simply sealed it all up for me...BEST movie(s) ever created

Oh and the doco's are just fantastic.

EDIT: Just finished watching the Camera's in Middle Earth doco on the fourth disc.
I must ORDER everyone who owns the EE Set to watch at least the last 15 minutes or so of this documentary...everyone giving their final farewell asn speaches on their final days of shooting is heartwarming stuff...ah brilliant.

 

I dunno I'm not all that smitten with it
it makes the movie "wholer" but there's still stuff missing. and this movie (for me) still has the most hated scenes in it of all three. it drove me crazy watching it again.... well I hope it will get better with time. off to see the specials now. PJs audiocommentary might clear up a couple of things..

-Mel

 

Those hated scenes being?

 

Well, I've brought it but I can't watch it until December 25.

 

Those hated scenes being?

well..... okay here goes....

1. the assault of osgiliath
I just dont get the strategy behind Faramirs actions when the orcs attack osgiliath in the night. they come by boats and the gondorians notice them and wait for them - ready to strike. the orcs land and the gondorians (Faramir) let some of them pass by (but not all of them) and then suddenly the gondorians attack - cause its much more of a challenge when you have orcs in front AND behind you

2. rohirim assembling at dunharg
everytime I see this scene I think its absolutely hilarious and ridiculous that, despite being in terrible haste, the royal rohan guards, their king and important figures (like Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas) ride up this mountain, up this only-one-at-a-time path up to the crack of dunharg (where the road into the mountain lies), that probably takes quite a while to go up and down to set up camp and wait for the other riders. so when they finally say okay enough we're off to gondor it takes them quite a while to get down again (and we're in haste I tell you!). totally stupid
the road into the mountain, that crack in the mountain could've been just as much on the ground with the rest of the troops.
I'm finally around to acknowledging the wisdom in assembling your forces in such a dreaded place (found that rather stupid at first too!). but everytime I see that only-one-at-a-time path up the mountain....... *shakes head in total disbelief*

3. I dont like elrond bringing aragorn the sword. elronds dialogue pretty much souns like "my daughter is dying, her fate bound by the ring, so now I also see that you have to destroy it. please do so. come who you were born to be" before arwen was dying elrond didnt give a damn...thats at least what it sounds like....

4. I wish PJ would've given Aragorn his banner so he could've raised that on the ships. I love that scene in the book when Eomer sees the banner and throws his sword into the air cause he knows aragorn made it and brought reinforcements!

5. after aragorn arrives at minas tirith defeating the orcs with his undead army, he challenges sauron with the palantir (absolutely love that one!)and then rides out to the black gate wearing the kings garments. I find it a bit hard to believe that the gondorians just took to him being their king the way it was handled in the film. he arrives and just a moment later they follow him into the next suicidal battle (they are just lucky to be alive when he arrives!), they follow him blindly to the black gate????) quite a stretch for me....

the first 2 really bother me, the others are just things I was hoping for.
so what do you guys think?

-Mel

 

Anyone seen the 2 easter eggs yet?

Anyway, my thoughts on what you said Protoge

1. the assault of osgiliath...

cause its much more of a challenge when you have orcs in front AND behind you

I liked it, rather than standing on the shore and meeting their full force in front with archers behind, they implant themselves amongst the orcs and make the supporting fire for the Orcs as dangerous to the Orcs as well as the men. It's actually an old and time tested tactic.

2. rohirim assembling at dunharg

Well, the King and his closest staff are the only ones we see at the top of that mountain, it wouldn't take as long for them to pack up and move down as it would for his captains to organise 6000 troops on the ground, this way he can see how many he has, and it looks better cinematically


3. I dont like elrond bringing aragorn the sword. elronds dialogue pretty much souns like "my daughter is dying, her fate bound by the ring, so now I also see that you have to destroy it. please do so. come who you were born to be" before arwen was dying elrond didnt give a damn...thats at least what it sounds like....

Yeah, kind of, I think it's more that Arwen convices him to give a damn about the world he's planning to leave behind.

4. I wish PJ would've given Aragorn his banner so he could've raised that on the ships. I love that scene in the book when Eomer sees the banner and throws his sword into the air cause he knows aragorn made it and brought reinforcements!

I think with the alteration of not giving Aragorn Anduril until the final film, there was none of his acknowledgement of his birthright, he hadn't decided to become king, and therefore no oppurtunity for him to have had his banner until he arrived at Minas Tirith. Even when he leads the armies to the black gates, he's not wearing the metal armour of the Gondorians, he's in a version of ranger's leather armour with the white tree on it. So the change made fo the film was to show that Aragorn didn't set out to be king, rather, it was thrust upon him.


5. after aragorn arrives at minas tirith defeating the orcs with his undead army, he challenges sauron with the palantir (absolutely love that one!)and then rides out to the black gate wearing the kings garments. I find it a bit hard to believe that the gondorians just took to him being their king the way it was handled in the film. he arrives and just a moment later they follow him into the next suicidal battle (they are just lucky to be alive when he arrives!), they follow him blindly to the black gate????) quite a stretch for me....

Well, like I said before, he really wasn't in King's armour, and he showed up with all the right trappings of office (the ring and sword) Plus Denethor was dead and the city may not have been entirely happy or confident under his rule. And although we don't see it on screen, obviously Faramir would have had some say or authourity of handing over command of the army for the march on the black gates.


Heh, I put way too much thought into these films

 

The first easter egg was kind of boring - Elijah pumped it up to be more than what it really was in the introduction, so I felt a little let down.

The second one was pure genius. I loved seeing Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn(?) baiting PJ with talk of a sequel, and Pete's dead-pan responses along the lines of "Professor Tolkien's dead. He died 30 years ago".

For what its worth, my only real problems with the Extended Edition are the way Aragorn's encounter with the Palantir is handled, and the fact that no mention is made of the Grey Company. The latter sort of ties in with what Protege said about Elrond at Dunharrow.

 

1. the assault of osgiliath
I just dont get the strategy behind Faramirs actions when the orcs attack osgiliath in the night. they come by boats and the gondorians notice them and wait for them - ready to strike. the orcs land and the gondorians (Faramir) let some of them pass by (but not all of them) and then suddenly the gondorians attack - cause its much more of a challenge when you have orcs in front AND behind you

Much better to soften your enemy by spreading them than taking un boats loads with just a couple of troops. By letting them through it makes it easier for the Gondorian troops to pounce on them and allows the archers to get in on it...Farmir pretty much allowed the Orcs to be surrounded, unfortunately the Orcs just scattered.

2. rohirim assembling at dunharg

They're probably up there to get an overall view on the army...simple as that

 

Get a better view of the army?

//consults Sun-Tzu...

I think it was done in honour the military doctrine of "cinematic appreciation of nice locales". Not because it was tactically sound.


E_S

 

Either way
I don't find a problem with it

Oh btw: How do I activate the easter eggs

 

On each of the film discs, go to chapter selection, select the last group of chapters, highlight the final chapter of the disc, and press down.

A ring should lightup at the bottom of the screen, hit enter and it'll go into the easter egg.

 

I liked it, rather than standing on the shore and meeting their full force in front with archers behind, they implant themselves amongst the orcs and make the supporting fire for the Orcs as dangerous to the Orcs as well as the men. It's actually an old and time tested tactic.
well there was no supportive fire by the orcs if you might recall

this way he can see how many he has, and it looks better cinematically
cinematically of course it looks way better but what you just said still means it takes quite some time to get down that damned mountain...


Yeah, kind of, I think it's more that Arwen convices him to give a damn about the world he's planning to leave behind.
which basically means elrond doesn't give a damn about men and the world as long as he has a ship left for him to flee *coward*


I think with the alteration of not giving Aragorn Anduril until the final film, there was none of his acknowledgement of his birthright, he hadn't decided to become king, and therefore no oppurtunity for him to have had his banner until he arrived at Minas Tirith. Even when he leads the armies to the black gates, he's not wearing the metal armour of the Gondorians, he's in a version of ranger's leather armour with the white tree on it. So the change made fo the film was to show that Aragorn didn't set out to be king, rather, it was thrust upon him.
well elrond brings him anduril. he could've brought aragorns kingly banner as well....
okay aragorn doesnt wear his kings armor when riding to the black gate but the people consider him their leader. ..just like that?????


And although we don't see it on screen, obviously Faramir would have had some say or authourity of handing over command of the army for the march on the black gates.
well if I were a gondorian soldier and just scarcely made it through this assault I would totally follow an unknown guy (no matter what hes wearing and having)into another suicidal battle (insert irony and sarcasm smiley here!)


The second one was pure genius. I loved seeing Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn(?) baiting PJ with talk of a sequel, and Pete's dead-pan responses along the lines of "Professor Tolkien's dead. He died 30 years ago".
I love the stuff from the mtv movie awards. but the very best yet was the acceptance speech by gollum and serkis!


Much better to soften your enemy by spreading them than taking un boats loads with just a couple of troops. By letting them through it makes it easier for the Gondorian troops to pounce on them and allows the archers to get in on it...Farmir pretty much allowed the Orcs to be surrounded, unfortunately the Orcs just scattered.
first off teh archers could've fired upon the orcs while they were still in the boats - there's nothing like decimating your enemy from afar. and the way the layout was there were just narrow ways from the boats to osgiliath. so logically faramir wouldn't have needed as many men, covering as much ground had he NOT let the orcs through. battling a superior-by-numbers enemy on several fronts it plain out stupid!


I think it was done in honour the military doctrine of "cinematic appreciation of nice locales". Not because it was tactically sound.
thank you. finally someone who sees my point!

-Mel

 

well there was no supportive fire by the orcs if you might recall

See? It worked (And they did have archers in the boats, they shot a lookout)

cinematically of course it looks way better but what you just said still means it takes quite some time to get down that damned mountain...

Once you're all packed and ready to head off, I'd say maybe 15 minutes judging by the track Elrond uses.

which basically means elrond doesn't give a damn about men and the world as long as he has a ship left for him to flee *coward*

I think it's more that he's jaded by the "strength of men" after the incident with isildur and the ring.

okay aragorn doesnt wear his kings armor when riding to the black gate but the people consider him their leader. ..just like that?????

I know it's explained in the book, but Faramir acknowledges who Aragorn is. and don't forget it's not just Gondorians out there, it's also the Rohirrim, who regard Aragorn as a hero of Helm's Deep, and Gandalf, whom both armies have great respect for, who also holds Aragorn in esteem. All elements that would add up to Aragorn being given the authourity he has with no great leap of logic.

well if I were a gondorian soldier and just scarcely made it through this assault I would totally follow an unknown guy (no matter what hes wearing and having)into another suicidal battle (insert irony and sarcasm smiley here!)

The choice to go into the "suicidal battle" wasn't made by Aragorn alone, it was decided by many people during the last debate.

Just like the books, it's interesting to see the different interpretations people have with parts of the films, some see one thing one way, and others see it totally differently.

Makes for discussion at least

 

See? It worked wink (And they did have archers in the boats, they shot a lookout)
I meant they were storming in....not even at first thinking about firing in..... all the orcs were storming in which makes faramirs choice bs!


Once you're all packed and ready to head off, I'd say maybe 15 minutes judging by the track Elrond uses.
okay and now think about how long that would've taken the kings 100 most trusted soldiers


I think it's more that he's jaded by the "strength of men" after the incident with isildur and the ring.
well another scene thats weird. elrond should rather feel very very guilty cause he didnt make isildur destroy the ring and when he(isildur) walked off elrond should've destroyed the ring. all those lifes lost in the battles against saurno are on elronds hands and he does only give a damn as soon as arwens life is threatened....what a damn cowardly bastard!


I know it's explained in the book, but Faramir acknowledges who Aragorn is. and don't forget it's not just Gondorians out there, it's also the Rohirrim, who regard Aragorn as a hero of Helm's Deep, and Gandalf, whom both armies have great respect for, who also holds Aragorn in esteem. All elements that would add up to Aragorn being given the authourity he has with no great leap of logic.
well that the rohirrim follow him is totally okay cause he already fought WITH THEM at helms deep. but the gondorians - well thats a comepletely different case....

The choice to go into the "suicidal battle" wasn't made by Aragorn alone, it was decided by many people during the last debate.
but not by the soldiers. and now they're following this unknown guy into certain deatH?!?!?!??!


Makes for discussion at least wink
I totally love a good discussion

-Mel

 

I meant they were storming in....not even at first thinking about firing in..... all the orcs were storming in which makes faramirs choice bs!

Gonna just have to disagree on that one...

okay and now think about how long that would've taken the kings 100 most trusted soldiers

Were they all up there?

well another scene thats weird. elrond should rather feel very very guilty cause he didnt make isildur destroy the ring and when he(isildur) walked off elrond should've destroyed the ring. all those lifes lost in the battles against saurno are on elronds hands and he does only give a damn as soon as arwens life is threatened....what a damn cowardly bastard!

The minute I saw that in FotR, I wondered why Elrond didn't just run up behind him, drive his sword through his back and toss him, ring and all into the fire, then make up some story about a hundred orcs waiting in ambush.

The movie would have been 20 minutes long though.

well that the rohirrim follow him is totally okay cause he already fought WITH THEM at helms deep. but the gondorians - well thats a comepletely different case....

Ah, but they fought with Gandalf, and Gandalf was just as much in charge of things imo.

but not by the soldiers. and now they're following this unknown guy into certain deatH?!?!?!??!

Not like the soldiers would have had a choice, their captain had handed over authourity to a new commander, and so long as the higher ranking officers obeyed commands, so would the rank and file.

Besides which, this is a movie featuring trolls wizards and orcs, I think we can suspend disbelief in other areas too

 

Regarding Faramir's decision to let the orcs bypass the front line at Osgiliath, it makes perfect military sense, from a certain point of view. The Gondorians were outnumbered and caught almost by surprise. By allowing the front orc ranks through and ambushing the rear, the possibility existed for Faramirs troops to gain an advantage based on the situation as he understood it at the time. It's not his fault he didn't know it was a full scale invasion. Blame his nut-case father for that.

As for Elrond not killing Isildur or otherwise forcing him to destroy the One Ring, the Elves understood the corrupting power of the Ring, and did not wish to put themselves into temptation. It's like giving an alcoholic a bottle of beer and telling him to pour it down the sink. Not gonna happen. It happened to Isildur, it happened to Deagol and Smeagol, it happened to Frodo and Boromir - why couldn't it happen to Elrond? There may have been some possible conflict since with Gil-Galad's death, Elrond became one of the Elven ringbearers. At Mount Doom, he was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't, because to force Isildur to throw the Ring into the lava would have put Isildur in the position of resenting the Elves, which is what led (partly) to the downfall of Numenor in the first place. To kill Isildur would also have earned the wrath of Men, and to kill his own kin, since Isildur was Elrond's nephew seperated by about 10 generations.

As for the muster at Dunharrow, why not have the Royal Guard and Theoden hang around the top of the mountain? They believed that any possible avenue of attack would come from the plains, since the back door led straight into the Dimholt, from which no living man had returned alive. One of the early Kings of Rohan had tried to walk the Paths of the Dead, and failed, so they evidently believed that if no-one could go south through the Paths, then no-one could come north through the Paths of the Dead. Back to the military strategy of a defence of Dunharrow, if any enemy attacked, Theoden would be reasonably well protected if he stayed up top. Besides, it's the right of all high-powered men to have a holiday house with a great view. Why else would Denethor pad around the top level of Minas Tirith? By your logic, he should have his chambers next to the front gate.

 

Ah, but they fought with Gandalf, and Gandalf was just as much in charge of things imo.
didnt seem to me like that...


Not like the soldiers would have had a choice, their captain had handed over authourity to a new commander, and so long as the higher ranking officers obeyed commands, so would the rank and file.
yeah well THAT handing over thingie would've been totally okay but unfortunately we DIDNT SEE THAT IN THE MOVIE! and that is exactly whats pissing me off.....


I think we can suspend disbelief in other areas too
well I dont think so. no matter how fantastic or fictitious a movie or any story is one needs to BELIEVE IT and the more it is grounded in reality the better. besides PJ said they were handling it more like an actual history not fantasy and I agree!!!

Regarding Faramir's decision to let the orcs bypass the front line at Osgiliath, it makes perfect military sense, from a certain point of view. The Gondorians were outnumbered and caught almost by surprise. By allowing the front orc ranks through and ambushing the rear, the possibility existed for Faramirs troops to gain an advantage based on the situation as he understood it at the time. It's not his fault he didn't know it was a full scale invasion. Blame his nut-case father for that.
why would that have been making any sense if the gondorians are the minority? could you please elaborate on that cause I see it the total opposite way!


As for Elrond not killing Isildur or otherwise forcing him to destroy the One Ring, the Elves understood the corrupting power of the Ring, and did not wish to put themselves into temptation. It's like giving an alcoholic a bottle of beer and telling him to pour it down the sink. Not gonna happen. It happened to Isildur, it happened to Deagol and Smeagol, it happened to Frodo and Boromir - why couldn't it happen to Elrond? There may have been some possible conflict since with Gil-Galad's death, Elrond became one of the Elven ringbearers. At Mount Doom, he was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't, because to force Isildur to throw the Ring into the lava would have put Isildur in the position of resenting the Elves, which is what led (partly) to the downfall of Numenor in the first place. To kill Isildur would also have earned the wrath of Men, and to kill his own kin, since Isildur was Elrond's nephew seperated by about 10 generations.
well you know I think the thousands and thousands of creatures killed since then thanks to sauron and his trrops would disagree! as would I!
its cold numbers as mostly in such circumstances.... save one person and in doing so send thousands of others to their doom or kill that ONE PERSON and save the lifes of thousands......


As for the muster at Dunharrow, why not have the Royal Guard and Theoden hang around the top of the mountain? They believed that any possible avenue of attack would come from the plains, since the back door led straight into the Dimholt, from which no living man had returned alive. One of the early Kings of Rohan had tried to walk the Paths of the Dead, and failed, so they evidently believed that if no-one could go south through the Paths, then no-one could come north through the Paths of the Dead. Back to the military strategy of a defence of Dunharrow, if any enemy attacked, Theoden would be reasonably well protected if he stayed up top. Besides, it's the right of all high-powered men to have a holiday house with a great view. Why else would Denethor pad around the top level of Minas Tirith? By your logic, he should have his chambers next to the front gate.
thats the exact same bs theoden did with helms deep. no back door! kinda stupid dont you think. you should always have a backdoor handy!
and I'm not saying he should live down by the front gate. this is war and war calls for desperate measures - maybe even for a king to not be higher up as his troops so they might get to gondor sooner and not have to ride down that damn mounatin and loose precious time.....
"minas tirith is on f

 

I hated that Frodo's feet had 757 hairs in the movie when in the book they had 1124. I think this was a massive unforgivable oversight of Peter Jacksons!!! That and the removal of Tom Bombadil from Fellowship!

 

its cold numbers as mostly in such circumstances.... save one person and in doing so send thousands of others to their doom or kill that ONE PERSON and save the lifes of thousands......

But if Elrond killed Isildur (or at least forced him to destroy the ring) Sauron would have been defeated.

Which would mean no further story.

Which would mean no movies.

Which would mean no thread for us to argue about it in.

Just be happy for what is rather than what could have been.

 

Not to mention Isildur would probably kick Elronds ass now that he has the ring...oh, and don't gimme that "he got his ass kicked by Orcs" crap
They had bows...

 

I hated that Frodo's feet had 757 hairs in the movie when in the book they had 1124. I think this was a massive unforgivable oversight of Peter Jacksons!!! That and the removal of Tom Bombadil from Fellowship!
the removal of tom bombadil was the best thing ever! but given by your "hair" count I get you dont take it even slightly serious at all.....


But if Elrond killed Isildur (or at least forced him to destroy the ring) Sauron would have been defeated.
Which would mean no further story.
well you know guys I try and look at it within the story.....oh no if this or that had happened therer wouldn't have been a story..... .....
nobody ever questioned elrond NOT destroying the ring at the last alliance!!! if I look at the "story" like PJ treating it like history (which I try and do) I'd be really pissed with elrond for NOT getting rid of that damned ring!!!


Not to mention Isildur would probably kick Elronds ass now that he has the ring...oh, and don't gimme that "he got his ass kicked by Orcs" crap
thats totally right. thats why gollum never stood a chance against frodo when frodo had the ring right? *insert sarcasm and irony smiley here*

-Mel

 

Ah sarcasm...you must be a hit with the men.

Sorry, but to me there is a big difference between Frodo and the Isildur. That ofcourse being that one of them is a pussy hobbit and one of them is the warrior that defeated Sauron.

 

Ah sarcasm...you must be a hit with the men.
I actually am

Sorry, but to me there is a big difference between Frodo and the Isildur. That ofcourse being that one of them is a pussy hobbit and one of them is the warrior that defeated Sauron.
well but you said that "Not to mention Isildur would probably kick Elronds ass now that he has the ring". so THE RING makes the difference NOT the person who carries it. so even pussy hobbit frodo could be a formidable foe!!!

-Mel

 

No, see Frodo wasn't willing to use the ring for his won benifit...but Isildur was.