ST Lord Vader's connection to The Knights of Ren

There is story potential here. What i think would be truly twisted is if at some point Palpatine took genetic samples from Padme's body, and unbeknownst to Vader, had her cloned. Then used this to try and deceive Anakin or throw him even deeper into the darkside playing on his emotions for Padme.

 

Anakin's Ghost could have easily told Luke this shortly after the celebration at Endor. We know nothing of what happens between Luke and the Force Ghosts from the end of ROTJ to TFA.
You can't say it makes zero sense when we don't know these things.
You can say the same thing about Obi-Wan...Why didn't he tell Luke about Yoda before he died, or IDK, his FATHER. But he told him all these things as a Ghost.
With Vader's dying breath he asked to see his son's face with his own eyes. It's not like he was hanging around Luke for weeks after his redemption and failed to mention it. He was gasping for air, looked at his son lovingly and told him to tell Leia he was right, there was good inside him then he died. Not much time to get into KoR or any other surprises or threats. Plus, Anakin must have felt he was transitioning into a Jedi Spirit, so obviously there's an eternity for him to communicate other things to his son. Or maybe he just didn't think KoR were a big threat at that point. Any of these can be picked and expanded up as explanations if need be, but ultimately yours is not a universal objection that very many people will have if my theory is correct.

 

Perhaps the Empire creates a Jedi version of Bizarro clone or something. They did once have Luuke.

 

some interesting things in this thread.
the knights of ren i think are a completely new group separate from the OT imo. i do not think theyre ancient, as everything we have to suggest that is 0. i mean sure, there can be future new content such as comics, novels that delve into it, i just do not share those sentiments.
we've got to remember that there is a good 30 years in between ROTJ and TFA. thats a laaarrge amount of time. why would KOR act now? this, along with other things like how you guys mentioned that this seems to be VERY like the OT, they really need to deviate from it in some aspects, which i think is the KOR. i havent thought up too many possibilities surrounding them, but i think it would be cool if (is the seven a confirmed thing? cannot remember) they were all defects from an attempted New Jedi Order. the whole luke showing up at the end and/or potentially being a hermit would be explained as well through this.
as for Vader, i really do think he will have an influence/presence in some form, whether it be through Kylo's own motivations or the KOR as a whole.. one thing that will lead to more accurate hypotheses' is finding out whether or not Snoke is apart of KOR, because if he isnt i think it would be quite obvious Kylo is the leader of that particular group and that will lead to more things being asked, of course lol

 

I think the best evidence for the Knights of Ren being an older organization is Snoke's probable connection to it. His character has been described as "having been through a lot." Those who have claimed to have seen concept art for Snoke say he looks zombie-like and/or reptilian (serpents in mythology are often associated with wisdom and mystical powers). Lucasfilm is also employing the use of motion capture to portray Snoke in the film. This leads me to believe his character is of an alien species, which may have a much longer life span than that of a human (like Yoda).

Whether or not Vader was aware of The Knights of Ren, I'm sure they were aware of him.

 

I think the KoR will likely be connected to Vader in some way, but i would prefer that they be a group of Force user Knights, similar in some respects to the Jedi and Sith, from outside the GFFA that have come to the GFFA on some twisted holy crusade type mission to spread their particular philosophy of the Force across the Universe. They may be some other galaxy's version of the Jedi/Sith. That would be cool, and something different.

 

Why would guys from some outer sphere worship Vader?

 

^This.

Most people worship their Creator. Or if not that, then they worship someone who is powerful because of a "divine" message from the Creator or some kind of access to or understanding of their Creator or the Creator's commandments which they don't currently have.

Groups and organizations very rarely become obsessive to the point of total devotion/violence/sacrifice or worship someone outside of these general circumstances. Which is why, if KoR are obsessed with Vader, then Vader having a strong connection to the KoR makes the most sense.

 

Folks are getting this "beyond the veil of stars" idea from Aftermath. If The Knights of Ren have been in exile, it doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have been paying close attention to events unfolding. Worlds beyond charted space could provide for some fun story telling:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/apr/26/particlephysics.starsgalaxiesandplanets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergalactic_star

 

In my scenario, only Kylo (Adam Driver's character) would be personally obsessed with Vader. The KoR themselves as an Order would not.

 

What about the "Acolytes of the Beyond" or the "Vader Lives" graffiti? I don't think Kylo is the only one obsessing over Vader's legacy, although he probably feels a stronger-than-average connection.

 

No, you misunderstand me, you guys are probably right, the KoR are probably connected to Vader. I was simply talking about my personal preference with regard to the KoR.

 

What official/canon info do we have about these "Acolytes of the Beyond"? I haven't read any of the books yet. Someone fill me in please.

 

Another "Aftermath" reference:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Acolytes_of_the_Beyond

 

I think there are better ways to go than ret-conning Anakin's story.

 

Ret-conning involves changing established story lines. What I'm suggesting is an expansion. Just like what the comic book is doing.

 

Even so, if this group was headed/started by Anakin/Vader, I think it's doubtful they (even combined) could pose a threat to Jedi Master Luke, unless there is something else with A LOT of power helping them.

 

Like Snoke?

I think it's likely that like the Sith, The Knights of Ren have existed in the shadows for centuries but the two groups have never been aligned. Vader was looking for a way to end the Emperor, however...

 

oh i think its quite obvious that Snoke will be an alien, not only that this IS Serkis (motion capture king) but also many things alluding to this. it also makes sense, since it is rumoured he is a very Thrawn like villain, possibly from the *cant remember the name of what is described as - the depths of the galaxy, or something like that* so whether or not he has been around for awhile is up in the air. but, i think it is more likely that if he has been around for awhile, he has been FAR away from all the action that went down in the OT. its also STILL possible that he is an ancient sith, although im leaning to this not being necessarily the case, more an awesome idea then anything. it is also stated that there are NO sith in TFA, so im inclined to think that the whole ancient sith thing is not true at all. i have heard about the zombie-look, but a lot of people have read too literally into this and not taking it for what it was, a loose description that can range from undead like appearance (rotting) to - really anything, especially if an alien. once we find out (probably wont until the movie) who is the leader behind KOR, i think this will be a big indication how important they are to the series going forward.

 

this is a good point, however, there arent too many ways to really do this that doesnt seem forced. i would think they dont really know the WHOLE story about Vader (killing the emperor, unless they hated the emperor for reasons, and in actual fact, turning back to the light)
you are spot on with the Creator thing, and this does counteract what i think about the connection (if there is one) to vader. for all we know though, its just Kylo who is obsessed with the Vader and no other KoR. i really do want some info on the KoR though. is the Seven a confirmed thing? (seven KoR?)
if Snoke is the leader, im not sure how much he would care for both Sidious and Vader, as its confirmed he is not a Sith, so im not so sure about him being a worshiper/fanatic (like Kylo is strongly implied to be like). i also feel that one of the big bads will in fact become a Sith in a later movie, the Sith are too big of a star wars thing to let go to waste. its also been 30 years since ROTJ and this is a major factor that i think many dont think about when projecting ideas about who, what and hows on the characters.

 

i like this idea, im sure if they are an older group that the Beyond will surely be a way of keeping them mysterious and, since NEVER mentioned in PT or OT, it doesnt really stuff up chronology/no retconning. but we need more info on the Beyond thing! this would be an easy way to establish new characters while also seeming very star wars and increasing the galaxies size, as one of the complaints about star wars overall is that for a MASSIVE galaxy/s we only see a few set of planets and the same characters.

 

There could be dozens - hell, hundreds - of Dark Side affiliated groups out there, but we've never seen them or heard of them before, because the Saga has been pretty much focused on Jedi vs Sith through generations. Now that both Orders are gone, its time for others to emerge from the shadows they've been dwelling in...

 

How 'bout instigator? Vader may have once sought council from Snoke; not the other way around.

Everyone uses the word "obsession" to describe Kylo's relationship to Vader. I think it'd be more accurately described as an inexplicable fascination that he can't quite understand, but one that Snoke nurtures.

 

Snoke has his own agenda separate from the KoR. I think he's just using Kylo for his own ends.

 

Abrams Empire Magazine:

I think these questions are key in understanding what the FO and the KOR are all about. Abrams paints a picture in which the Empire of old is viewed through rose-colored glasses. Figures from the past, like the Emperor and Vader, the tireless knight-commander of the past Empire, are mythical beings. Kylo Ren is not the only one who wants to "finish what you have started". The entire movement is about building a new Empire based on the Empire of old.

The difference between the KOR and the FO being that they have different methods going about it and that the FO is not religious, the KOR is.