Saga Losing the Thread

Anokin sux he shoulda killed the empoorer and taken over the Empire in ROtS

than he cold clone A 100 Padmes

and rule Teh Empire and make the galaxy better and more betterly

That's what hapen in Epsiode VXIII. Its all 1 saga!!!!!!1 (or two) Not in seven and a halve parts like u are saying.

Darth_Nub is an iddot

 

That's more like it.

 

One thing I think worth mentioning is that the inconsistency between the PT & OT isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Faustian bargain and Anakin's various flaws did work in terms of the story of the PT, I found it very satisfying when I first saw ROTS - "Oh, so THAT'S why he turned to the Dark Side." It all suddenly made sense.

The three films of the OT don't fit together very neatly (although the films of the PT do, pretty much), but no one ever really had a problem with it. The PT & OT don't need to, either. Come 2021, we'll have our trilogy of trilogies - separate, though connected - as it was meant to be back in 1979.

 

I think there might be a difference, though I'm not sure if I can explain it properly. Each successive film in the OT took place later in the timeline, and anything "new" to the backstory was only "new" because the viewpoint characters didn't know about it. Also, certain inconsistencies - Vader as father, Leia as a Skywalker - were not just inconsistencies, but were made into deliberate parts of the plot. They didn't match, but this was called out in the films themselves as the results of character actions and words that we could understand the motivations for (Obi-Wan was hiding Luke and Leia from the Empire, and hiding Luke's parentage from him). Inconsistencies between, for example, Vader/Anakin's seeming motivations and interests in the OT vs. his motivations and interests in the PT are not inconsistent in the same way. This is because (I think?) for the longest time there wasn't going to be an inconsistency, and even when it developed, little crumbs of some of the original motivations remained (though they come across in a different context now).

Does that make any sense?

 

I think I have a thought-experiment example.

Let's say there is a TV show. Among other things on the show, there is an Inventor character and a Bartender character. Throughout the first season/series, both appear several times. The Inventor comes up with various useful inventions, and all the characters hang out in the Bartender's bar.

Then the second season/series starts. Both characters are absent. The rest of the characters still hang out in the bar, but the Bartender is explained to have moved to a different city. However, while the Inventor's inventions are still present and are used by the remaining characters, her absence is never even mentioned.

These are both inconsistencies between the two seasons/series, but only one of them is resolved or explained.

 

I guess you're right. That's what I've come to admit to a certain extent.

The fact is that I couldn't Imagine how different the 2 trilogies would be and look back in the 80's, both in style and tone. Although Lucas always stated and "warned" it would be that way.
I didn't take those words for what they really were. Thought the 2 series would be closer and more connected in that sense, with of course differences (story, timeline, some issues). I was wrong.

Actually I really have a hard time, even today, to erase my OT bias and memories, mainly because it came first, and the way I personally felt the backstory just after ROTJ was released, although little was known in detail. That's why, like many, the 2 series are to me completely independant.

Unlike you, I couldn't swallow that Faustian arc and it was a real letdown, even in the context of the PT in itself where, like you say, it's less contradictory. Even if i'm used to it now.

Yes It does. I understood what you mean here. Indeed there's a certain difference.

The fact is that I felt, back in the late 70's-early 80's, that some inconsistencies you refer to about the OT were pretty minor, not even real ones at that time. The whole remained rather cohesive to me.

But the big differences in style (CGI) and tone (overtly religious and messianic issues, Sith order, extra hierachycal relations Jedi master/apprentice etc...) in the PT are so obvious that it was in the end too much to really accept for me, in terms of a cohesive Saga. But it's just me of course. Like Nub points above, it's just the way it is and not necessarily bad of course.

Lucas wanted it to be that way and in the end you have to comply with it. Wether you had hoped for something different or not.

 

I've come to enjoy all of it a lot more again now that I've given up being frustrated by the fact that it doesn't really work for me as a saga. If it had been made 1-6 or even 4-6, 1-3 but with a clear intention of making all 6, I'm sure things would be different. As it is, I feel that when I watch episodes 4 and 5 I'm watching one story, which changes gear right at the very end. ROTJ now feels to me like a film made with the PT in mind.

Regarding the nature of the dark side, I feel that in the PT turning is portrayed as something more considered and analytical than it is in the OT. In the OT I felt that regardless of your motivations, you could potentially turn if you were sufficiently consumed by dark side emotions, such as fear and anger. Hence, Luke was in danger of turning eventhough he had no real reason to do so. There was no advantage to him joining Palpatine and ruling the galaxy. In the PT it's almost as though Anakin was sitting about making a pro con list for the dark side. His being consumed by fear and anger was almost secondary.

 

^ This would make for a great Vader internet meme...

 

Of course. It's not like I have a time machine and could go back and change the PT into what I like now. And it's not like I would do that even if I somehow did have a time machine. However, we can still discuss it (as we have done), and people like myself can put their ideas into our own worldbuilding projects and stories.

It seems to me that the rationale for "turning to the dark side" is laid out perfectly by Yoda in ESB. It's simply the appeal of real shortcuts to power in the real world: it's "faster, easier," which makes it "more seductive." It's not stronger, but it requires less effort and focus, and that's a real draw (1) if you have a weak constitution or (2) even if you don't, but you do have moments of weakness (moments when you feel like you must do something right now, driven by fears or anger).

It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that; you don't necessarily need the different sides to have different powers. And this kind of view also really allows for a "road to hell is paved with good intentions" approach, which is paid lip service to, but isn't really Anakin's ultimate motivation (except in a very narrow sense, in connection with Padme - not in connection with his views of the duty of the Jedi to the downtrodden in the galaxy or anything like that).

I'm not arguing that the PT that actually exists doesn't work as a story. I'm just postulating alternate ways of telling a story. Alternate ways that engage me personally to a greater degree. That's all.