Discussion Lost in a Good Fic -- The Well of Lost Plots Social Thread

Jen, if you're looking forward to HP7, you should sign up for the House Cup

I've been pretty lucky with movies this year. I've seen several in theaters and mostly enjoyed them (though they were also mostly just fun movies, nothing serious ).

 

You're looking forward to Transformers 3? I'm just gonna stand over there.

*laughs* Yeah, I know most people hated ROTF and all, but I really like movies that are jam-packed with stuff. I get bored and distracted extremely easily, so when a movie is set an such an insane pace that I literally can't get my mind to wander, I consider it a very good thing.

I've seen most of G1 now, and liked it, but I still like Bayverse, and yes, I'm looking forwards to the third one.


Nat, hasn't the House Cup already started?


I've seen *thinks* Sherlock Holmes, Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief, Princess and the Frog, Prince of Persia, Iron Man 2, and Clash of the Titans in theaters.

The only one I hated was Clash of the Titans, which sucked because I was really looking forwards to it. I'm a huge PJ fan, so while the Lightning Thief was quite different from the books, I still enjoyed it and realized why they made the changes they did (though I still would have preferred them keeping the characters young instead of aging them up). Sherlock Holmes and Ironman were great, Prince of Persia was POTC mixed with Aladdin, which was both good and bad, and Princess and the Frog was just what I expected it to be, and made me happy because I had been missing traditional Disney.

Narnia comes out this year? Cool! That'll be another good movie to watch. I tend to see at least two-three movies around Christmas with the family. Going to movies in Los Angeles is quite expensive, though, which is why we do it only about once a year. The nice thing about being disabled and living in Berlin is that 1) student tickets in Germany are about 5-7 Euros, and because I'm disabled, a second person, i.e., an aide/escort, is allowed to come with me for free. I just take a friend and we split the ticket cost. There's a large English theater here in Berlin, which is what I go to. We went to see Iron Man 2 the day it premiered and the theater (that sits at least 100) had maybe 20 people in it -- and we were shocked to see how many people there were! Usually there are maybe five to six others, and I have been alone in the theater with a friend before. We don't mind, though *grins* we both love to chat through movies, about the actors and what's going on, so it's more a blessing when we're practically alone.


I think it's more of a "they're taking deconstruction way too far" kind of thing. Just like how most anti-Twilighters (myself included, in the past, but mostly now I just like to take the mickey out of it instead of going "see? This is why it is bad") is single-handedly reversing everything femininity has accomplished - ever. I'm pretty sure Meyer never intended for Twilight to be what it has become, it Just Happened and was a very, very, very bad case of huge Unfortunate Implications (... and bad writing and storytelling, sorry people who might like it)

What gets me about Twilight is that people just don't see why it's bad. I've been accused of being overly-sensitive due to my past experiences, and you know what? Maybe I am. But let's face it: the writing is crappy, the characters are mostly one-dimensional and it upholds terrible values.

My step-mother asked me for books to read, and mentioned that her co-workers (she's an elementary school teacher) had all adored Twilight. I told her that I hated the series, because it was basically an abusive relationship masquerading as a love story, and described how Bella is this flat character who falls so in love with Edward that she cannot bear to be without him, regardless of the fact that Edward is dictating her life and stalking her, and that the relationship is portrayed as TRUE LOVE.

My step-mom's response? Awesome.

And I'm like...yeah, okay. You married my father, so clearly you have some delusions when it comes to relationships. (And no, I did not say this to her. Despite her view on relationships, I do like her -- she's a big step up from my ex-step-mother who is psychotic).


Anyways, I adore YA literature, but I've found that so much of it is superficial

 

Hello Alethia, FelsGodess, Nat, et al. I'm not sure I have a lot to add to the 'how Disney is the root of all evil' conversation. I personally like Disney and take each fil as it come. That said, I haven't seen many of their films recently.

As far as movies I'm looking forward to: Inception, directed by Christoper Nolan. this film looks cool. I don't get tot the theatre often and didn't think it would be to a Leo film, but Nolan rocks! Defnitely going to see that one in theatre.

As to Twilight, I listened to the unabridged recording of Twilight and never continued. Alethia, I agree that Bella is terrible. Her narration is vapid. Obviously, this is not just a guy thing. I cans see your points as well. Not my ting at all.

What else is up? Boring day in the office.

 

Let's see, this year I've seen Sherlock Holmes, Extraordinary Measures, Avatar, Clash of the Titans, Alice and Wonderland, Valentine's Day, Iron Man 2 and Eclipse in theaters. I hated Avatar. There were so many plot holes and the plot was so simplistic and predictable. Sherlock Holmes, Iron Man 2 and Extraordinary Measures were great.

With the whole Twilight thing, I like the story enough to read them, but I know it's crap. It's the closest I'll get to a trash romance novel. The characters outside the main three are more interesting. There is this blog on Spark Notes where the writer is blogging each chapter as he reads the series. He isn't doing it to bash the book, but it kind of comes off that way. He points out the flaws and all that in a humorous fashion.

Bella has no character. She's so simplistic and is defined by the men she is around. The entire series is more of a what NOT to do in a relationship. She can't be happy when she isn't around Edward or Jacob. That's not healthy. With Twilight, the problems are right in your face. Stalking, obsession, controlling, ect.

Inception looks pretty good.

 

Jen - nope! Game is starting Saturday, and Hufflepuff is in desperate need of players . . .


I definitely didn't like the Twilight series as a whole (which isn't stopping me from seeing the movies). As of right now, I think it's just pretty eh, though I used to be into it.


Brodie!! You should join the House Cup too

 

House Cup?

Edit: Though I tried to listen to Twilight, I have never really been interested in HP. Sorry, Nat. I think I read half of the Sorcerer's Stone and just wasn't engaged. No worries.

 

Well, I finally saw Toy Story 3. Now I'm back in my apartment, sitting in front of the fans. It's 101 outside, but I'm more comfortable right now than I thought I'd be.

 

Any other House Cup takers?

Yuck. And I thought it was bad here (though 90s aren't pleasant).

 

Ew, 101.

 

Nat, I'm thinking about the House Cup. I just don't know if I'll remember to keep up with it. IIRC, that's what happened to me past time I played...

Twilight is horrible. What I find even more horrifying, though, is the scary trend of YA literature to promote rape and stalking and general abusive relationships as loving. I've been reading up on this subject lately, and it really does frighten me. So much of YA at the moment perpetuates damaging stereotypes and relationships and it is very depressing.

It's 22 degrees here, so like 70? Definitely cooler than it has been. What I hate most is the humidity. 100F doesn't phase me if it's a dry heat, but I despise 80F with humidity. My general favorite temperature is about 80, though. Finally hot enough that I don't need long sleeves or pants on. I freeze easily...

 

Just over, yeah. [71.6° F]

Going from C to F, you multiply, then add. [1.8, then 32.]
Going from F to C, you subtract, then divide. [32, then 1.8.]

It's 97 now, but it should drop into the low 90s from tomorrow.



Today will probably be another go-nowhere day. Or maybe just to the store a block away.

EDIT: Sometime after I posted, it did get up to 100 out there, but it's dropped back since.

EDIT II: One annoying thing about Kids' Week on Jeopardy! is that I can't yell as, uh, vehemently when they blank on questions.

 

Jen - please do! You only need to do 65 points There's only one more day for signups, and Hufflepuff really, desperately needs more players to avoid being cancelled as a house

That's scary. What other books is the trend in? You've gotten me curious . . .

I totally agree about the dry heat, though my favorite is in the mid-high 60s. Cool enough to wear jeans/sweatpants/t-shirt, maybe a sweatshirt, but not cold enough to require a hat or gloves.

Drabbo - I like kids' week since I know more answers By the way, are you interested in joining the House Cup?

 

<--- Has learned something today.

I suppose with YA literature it's how the themes are used. You can teach that rape, stalking and all that is bad while still using it in a story. I honestly haven't looked at YA literature, other than Twilight, in years.

Even in "classic" work there are problems. "Romeo and Juliet," for example, is a piece of literature that could be accused of sending a harmful message. Suicide because you can't live without the other person? I remember reading this in freshman year and many people finding it romantic. I didn't understand it then and don't now. "New Moon" used that theme.

If current YA literature is portraying such harmful themes as good, there is a definitely a problem. If teens are basing their views strictly on what they read in fiction, there is an even bigger problem. It's the classic argument of how the media effects our beliefs and views. They are going to learn about all of that one way or another. Values and beliefs are learned from different areas than just literature.

 

I agree with you, Jen, about YA literature. Although part of me still feels that a) we're reading into it too far and b) most teenagers aren't really that idiotic (but there are exceptions) to completely base their lives on what they see in literature. Walk into a Twilight forum and they'll seem completely crazy, but a lot of people do act differently on online forums than they do in real life. The teens I know don't let fiction like Twilight dictate their lives. A lot of them love Twilight, but they see it as entertainment only, kind of like a literature version of a popcorn flick. Still for those who can't seem to tell the difference between fiction and real life, it is a very disconcerting problem. The masses of screaming fans freak me out. How fiction like Twilight got to be so popular in the first place still completely baffles me.

Nat, most of the vampire books that came out after Twilight started are in a similar vein. Heck, anything that is YA supernatural fiction is in a similar vein. And it's all pretty bad writing.

"Romeo and Juliet," for example, is a piece of literature that could be accused of sending a harmful message. Suicide because you can't live without the other person? I remember reading this in freshman year and many people finding it romantic. I didn't understand it then and don't now. "New Moon" used that theme.

*theatre student raises hand*

I wholly agree with the scholars (and I believe this is one of the theories that is in the majority when regarding Romeo and Juliet) who argue that Romeo and Juliet shows exactly what can go wrong with teen romance. There's a reason it's a tragedy. That reason is not "they both died in the end" (which is sadly often cited as the main reason why a play is a tragedy: the characters are dead by the end of it -- there is a lot more to the tragic form than merely the protagonist(s) dying at the end). It's "they were both tragically stupid and they let their romance get out of control." So much of what happens in that play is because Romeo is a hot-head and Juliet isn't thinking clearly. They throw everything to the wind, letting their passion override their lives. Remember that they are both very young teenagers (Juliet is thirteen, Romeo fourteen, I think - it's been a while since I've read it as it's not one of my favourites) and they probably didn't know better. Not to mention they probably got a kick out of disobeying their parents and having a secret (the last production of the play I saw played this idea up a lot). One of the major points of the tragic form is that the protagonist has a tragic flaw that ultimately leads to their downfall and/or death. What I see in Romeo and Juliet is hardly a romantic tale. It's a cautionary tale about the dangers of passionate love, specifically teenaged passionate love. To me, I don't see Shakespeare sending a harmful message, I see him sending a warning - and he's pretty blunt about it.

I do not understand those who see Romeo and Juliet as the ideal romantic tale. With New Moon, I had major issues with Meyer comparing Bella's story to the play. Trying to commit suicide by dangerously cliff-diving just to hear Edward's voice? My foot. This author does not understand Shakespeare and every mention to Romeo and Juliet in New Moon drives me crazy.

I studied Romeo and Juliet in highschool (and will jump at the opportunity to study it in university, but I probably won't be able to take the Shakespeare course until next summer term or fourth year). Many of my classmates found it romantic as well, which completely baffled me even then. It's my opinion that Shakespeare's not taught very well in high school, probably because the majority of the teachers don't really understand it themselves. I found an essay on Hamlet I wrote in grade 12. My teacher gave me 100% on it. If I was to mark my own work now, after two years studying dramatic arts, I would give myself a 75% at the most because I really utterly failed on what Hamlet is about (and I have studied that play in university).

<--- Has learned somet

 

I'm not saying Romeo and Juliet is a bad story or anything like that. My whole point is just that you can pull a harmful message out of anything. Meyers use of Romeo and Juliet in New Moon was weak; no argument there. That whole concept of doing stupid crap to hear his voice was just ridiculous.

I could be wrong about this, but doesn't Meyers attempt to draw parallels from "Wuthering Heights" in Eclipse? At least, she had Bella compare herself to Catherine. I haven't read the book in a year, so I'm not sure.

Give me 80 degrees and I'm a happy camper.

 

Oh yes, I completely and totally agree! Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was contradicting you, I was agreeing and adding on to what you had said. You really can pull a harmful message out of anything.

I got sick of Wuthering Heights after the second chapter (I'm not really one for 19th century literature - I can read Jane Austen, but that's about it), so I can't comment on its use in regards to Twilight. But I feel that all of Meyer's parallels to literature are kind of phony. The Pride and Prejudice one makes me *headdesk* just as much as the Romeo and Juliet one.

Apparently, Breaking Dawn is supposed to draw parallels to The Merchant and Venice (which I have read) and A Midsummer Night's Dream (which I studied in uni). Frankly, I'm totally confused by Meyer saying that because I don't see any distinct parallels at all. Possibly with the "and they're all married/set up with someone in the end, yay!" ending, but that's a trademark of comedic theatre from Shakespeare's era, not just A Midsummer Night's Dream.

 

Nah, it didn't seem like that.

Never read Wuthering Heights. I remember Bella talking about it and reading some passage from it. I thought she linked it to her behavior with Edward and Jacob.

A Midsummer's Night Dream? Where did she come up with that?

 

I really, really, really don't know. As someone who has a) studied the play b) seen the play in a professional production and c) really loves the play (it is HILARIOUS especially because it is so ridiculously metatheatrical ), I am... confused. Really confused. It seems like a "oh, see how my writing is linked to older pieces that are considered literature, therefore making mine good?" thing, which, frankly, bothers me... especially when said work has no noticeable links to said piece of literature.

I suppose... maybe... it's trying to play off of the Hermia/Lysander/Helena/Demetrius love - er - square by trying to parallel Edward and Bella being the couple in love with Jacob trying to love Bella, and then Renesmee comes along and changes his mind... UGH! Ack! I can't even figure this one out, it's giving me a huge headache!

Okay, I'm just going to go back to being confused by that Meyer reference and will politely ignore the fact that she claims Breaking Dawn has anything to do A Midsummer Night's Dream.

 

See? I'm entertaining and educational! Like television, or old people.

I doubt it. Even when we know exactly what you mean, why should we ever let that stand in the way of the joke? I've been known to intentionally mix-and-match the two scales just for a laugh, but usually I just wind up confusing people.

"Dude, it's forty degrees out here! Why aren't you wearing a coat?"
"Forty degrees isn't cold. Human body temperature's only thirty-seven degrees."

 

I read and really liked Wuthering Heights, though I thought Catherine and Heathcliff acted like idiots. I read Eclipse years ago, before WH, so I can't remember if the parallels SM drew were any good, just that she did it.

 

Can I borrow that one for the next time I visit the States?

 

Oh my. I just realized today that I'm getting close to my 400th Doctor Who drabble, and I need to set aside my UDC writing so that drabbles 390-400 can be a unified set. Of course, I've been having trouble keeping up on my tracker; I may be into that already. Oh, I hope not. Well, all the organizing and checking and rechecking will keep me busy tonight.

 

Wow! That's pretty impressive.

 

Well, I finished the first hundred, all the way back in 1998, with nine drabbles (one for each Doctor and a final multi-Doctor one) set at various kinds of parties. For the second hundred, in 2001, I wrote ten drabbles (one each for the eight canonical, plus Nine and Thirteen from "Curse of Fatal Death") that were crossovers with properties I'd never done before that were also contemporary to each Doctor's era. After a few years off, I finished the third century in 2007, with ten (one for each Doctor, with the new series Nine and Ten instead of the CoFD pair) on the theme of passings.

So now I need to come up with something new for a hook, figure out where I am, write a couple standalones if necessary -- I know I can't post a full UDC set -- then write the eleven drabbles, post them, and then try to get caught up with UDC 5.

 

Wow. 400? That's neat.