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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Discussion Lost in a Good Fic -- The Well of Lost Plots Social Thread

Discussion in 'Non Star Wars Fan Fiction' started by NYCitygurl, May 31, 2010.

  1. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    Aww that sounds like fun (if challenging). And you're going to be an aunt! Congratulations [:D]

    Idri, that sounds like a good time :p And awesome to be invited to participate in the project!
     
  2. Idrelle_Miocovani

    Idrelle_Miocovani Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    It's on archival development for theatre. Which might sound really boring and not important, but it's actually really interesting because with all the developing technology we have available, it's baffling that theatres barely archive, or if they do archive their work, all they keep are pamphlets, photos and maybe the prompt script.

    And congrats, Mira! Sounds very hectic, but also lots of fun. I agree with you about the baby colours... let's kick down the gender stereotypes before they begin, shall we? :p
     
  3. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Thanks, guys! [:D] It was a blast, a fun, hectic blast, but a blast nonetheless. :p

    And that DOES sound interesting, Idri. I've always taken it for granted that theaters would keep copies of entire plays and what not - especially with the technology we have now, That seems a fascinating subject to delve into. [face_thinking]
     
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  4. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    That does sound quite fun! And I second Mira; I'm surprised their archives aren't better kept.
     
  5. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Hello everyone!

    Long time no see, I know...

    I was MIA/AWOL (take your pick) for the last six months, but for good reason. I had to tackle with about a gazillion issues in DRL (including - but not limited to - a total computer crash, an international move, and a death in the family), on top of finishing my Ph.D. and beginning yet another postgraduate programme all at once. So yeah, it was a lot to deal with and something had to give: in this instance, my internet presence.

    But things are beginning to be a lot more manageable from my end, so after a brief hiatus for Christmas (I will be away with extremely limited internet access), I will be back from New Year's onwards.

    On another note, I saw The Hobbit last night. I loved how Cate Blanchett kicked ass (not for nothing is she the granddaughter of the High King of the Noldor). But I have to say that Richard Armitage slew me utterly. Again.

    Cheers,

    Lauré :)
     
  6. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Gah, laurethiel1138!! I was so, so happy when I logged on and saw that you had checked in. Yes! That most certainly would result in a most understandable MIA. I am glad that things are finally settling down for you. [:D] Aaaand, could we even look forward to fic in the future? We have a wonderful prompt thread going if you need some quick and ready inspiration - or, I remember that you had quite the sentence collection going for the Children of Aulë. [face_batting] [face_dancing]

    I actually wasn't going to bring up The Hobbit unless someone else did, not wanting to just throw a rant at the poor, unsuspecting souls here. :p Buuut, now that it is mentioned . . . I went into the movie with an open mind, really, really hoping to like it - because I enjoyed AUJ immensely, warts and all, even if I did not much care for DOS, and yet . . .

    My biggest disappointments, once again, came with the few, amazing moments of heart and warmth the movie did have being pushed aside for two hours of one massive battle scene - complete with some of the most ridiculous stunts I've yet to see in a film (it got to the point that I cringed whenever Legolas came on screen, wondering what he would do next). Pacing really felt like the movie's main problem – Smaug's defeat, and then the White Council really felt rushed through to me. And, for all of the awe that came from seeing Galadriel in her full glory, don't get me started on Galadriel using her ring *alone*, or the odd Gandalf/Galadriel vibes that came with it. Even Galadriel's CGI-ing when she used Nenya felt . . . well, fake. The entire scene felt rushed and awkward to me, when it had the potential to be something wonderful. While those scenes felt shortened, the main battle seemingly dragged on forever - so much so that there was very little time for scenes of rebuilding and closure at the film's end - which I would have loved to see! We did not even get a funeral. (And, are you really trying to tell me that Sauron was defeated in sixty seconds, but Bolg and Azog took twenty minutes a piece to die? o_O) I understand the need for battle-scenes, and there was most definitely a need for an epic battle here, but there was more than enough screen-time to deal with *all* of the various plot-elements. Instead, I was sitting in my seat, ready for the movie to end while it dragged on and on . . . which is a horrible feeling to have during a movie portraying Tolkien's work. :(

    Speaking of - I did not expect the movie to follow canon (and I was hoping to see canon improved in some places), so that isn't even a complaint I'm going to bother with - but, easily fixable things like mixing up the Anduin river with the Celduin river, and, in particular, fudging up Aragorn's age and backstory really, really pressed my buttons in the face of the movie falling short on other fronts. The entire Angmar plotline – and, by extension, the plot with Legolas' mother, which I was so prepared to love - just felt shoehorned in, and made very little sense. Even in the context of the movie, it felt like a plot-thread that was started, but never fully explained or dealt with - and maybe that was because there was no time to explain anything properly in the film, not when there were so many Orcs to slay instead. o_O So, once again, tried and true elements were taken and twisted to fit Jackson's vision – which I don't mind if it still makes for a cohesive, powerful film - but here, it only managed to fall flat.

    So, basically, this movie once again felt like a way for Peter Jackson to play with his Orcs, rather than taking the time to create anything more substantial. Which hurts me, because the moments that were good were so, *so* good – like Thorin's gold-sickness, or any time Bilbo was allowed dialogue, really. Those two! [face_love] They ARE Thorin and Bilbo to me, and I really wish that they had a better movie built around them. Oh, and *Bard*. And *Thanduil*! (His drama with Legolas aside – which is a whole other rant of its own. [face_not_talking] ) - both were fantastic! Most of the actors were spot on, really . . . which makes my issues with the movie fall heavily on the shoulders of the writers and directors. Because, in the end, those twenty good minutes of film weren't enough to justify sitting through a two and a half hour movie with so much carnage and ridiculous elements. So . . . I am sad, and really missing how Peter Jackson used to portray Middle-earth. Because I do have such a love for that feeling of epic awe he was always able to inspire - along with his knack for portraying such heartwarming bonds between comrades. I miss it, and wish that BoFA had more of it.
     
  7. Idrelle_Miocovani

    Idrelle_Miocovani Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I'm not seeing it until next week - my boyfriend and I made a pact that we wouldn't watch it unless we could watch it together and be horrified (or elated) in tandem. But from what I've heard, book fans are not pleased... (I'm avoiding spoilers until I see it, so I'm not exactly sure what deviations the movie took).
     
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  8. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    laurethiel1138 I'm so glad to see you back! Congratulations on finishing your PhD -- that's incredible! And I second Mira: stories, please? [face_batting]

    I haven't read the Hobbit (I've been waiting for all the movies to be released). I went into this movie hoping it would be my favorite of the three. It was not.

    I agree with everything Mira said, particularly about the rushed end. I still have questions! What happened after Thorin's death? Who ruled in Erebor, since Fili and Kili were gone? (A very unpleasant surprise for me.) How did what's-his name (very early here I-)) end up in Moria to be surprisingly dead in Fellowship, and how did he defeat the Orcs there? (At least for a time.) Did Bard and his people stay in Dale? What happened to Thranduil, and why wasn't he a player in LOTR? How many years passed between the Hobbit and Fellowship--how was Aragorn alive? (And why would Thranduil finally just do a 180 in ten minutes and send Legolas to him?) If Sauron was such a big threat, why did the White Council just agree to let Saruman handle him and never ask follow-up questions?
     
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  9. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Answers to the above questions:
    Bilbo went home, the others started to rebuild their kingdoms.
    Dain becomes King Under the Mountain.
    Balin, took a bunch of dwarves there at some point during the gap between Hobbit and LotR. Things went well for a while, after the fighting (Balin came with enough people that he could be considered a Lord of Moria, so they had plenty of fighters to try to kick out the orcs...), until the Balrog showed up, and the rest...
    Yes, they rebuild and Bard's descendants are the rulers there, Kings of Dale.
    Thranduil is busy with the War in the North at the time, but he sends Legolas to the Council of Elrond. And the 180: because Jackson. Apparently thought it was a clever linking thing. Except that:
    Aragorn should be...(doing this from memory) maybe ten years old then? There's sixty years to the beginning of LotR, then seventeen years to the actual fellowship questing. Aragorn's in his eighties in LotR, but his lifespan is longer than a normal human's, as a man of Numenor.
    Because Jackson.
    It's kinda silly when a three-film adaptation (of a 320-ish page book) requires this much consulting the books to understand.
     
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  10. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Because Jackson. 'nuff said. :p Excellently answered, Random Comments

    I'm glad - and yet, sad - to see that the movie had its head-scratching moments, even through the lens of a fantasy movie - knowing how the books were not adhered to, aside. I just . . . it could have been so much better, and it was not. :(
     
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  11. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    I thought about just posting "because Jackson," but decided to be a bit more helpful. :p
     
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  12. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    NYCitygurl, Mira_Jade,
    Happy to be back!

    Mira_Jade
    I guess someone had to start the Tolkien discussion, so... glad to be of service.

    In all the talk about The Hobbit, I've noticed that people (in general) tend to hold the LOTR trilogy as a sort of ideal adaptation, and forget that it also took great liberties with the original book material. From the addition of key sequences (Elves at Helm's Deep, for one, with Haldir dying, for two) to the absence of beloved characters (no Glorfindel, no Imrahil, no Tom Bombadil) or relevant scenes (no Houses of Healing between Faramir and Eowyn except in the EE), there were a lot of modifications. I think it's slightly unfair to attack The Hobbit on that point, even though some of the most glaring changes (such as the addition of Legolas and Tauriel) could, admittedly, have been better handled.

    I also think that the movie audience has become much more demanding in terms of special effects, and much more apt to point out flaws than achievements. So while the key throne room sequence in the latest movie could have been perhaps done in a more tasteful manner (less akin to a 90s video), let's not forget how well the CGI team rendered the splendours of Erebor that was, or how completely terrifyingly Smaug was presented. In the LOTR trilogy, for example, it was pretty obvious when they used body doubles (for scenes where "big" and "small" people interacted), and yet it was a luxury they couldn't afford so much in The Hobbit, because of the 3D commitments (no matter what PJ says of his enthusiasm about HFR and everything, I'm sure there was a lot of pressure from the studios on that point).

    And from a story point of view, I think it's a lot easier to be forgiving of a work where everything is set to right, the King is crowned and he "gets the girl", as is the case at the end of the LOTR trilogy. Conversely, with a work with a downer ending such as The Hobbit, I think it's a lot easier to let the negative emotions left over from the story to taint our overall view of the films, because we would have liked for the story to end in a different way. We feel robbed of our happy ending (because even in Tolkien's works everybody can die, not unlike in Game of Thrones, though some would like to claim differently), and we accuse the film of being inferior instead of dealing with our emotions on our own. The performances of the cast were pretty stellar, and I was thrilled to see Thanduil as the epitome of the uncany Elvenking, reeling from all the layers to his psyche, as I was heartbroken by Thorin describing himself as "the poor and broken Thorin Oakenshield". And these are only a few examples amongst many.

    I'm sure I'll have other thoughts on the matter later on. I'll leave you with these to chew on for now.
     
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  13. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Excellent points all, laurethiel1138 . :)

    I have to agree with you on the acting – the characters were wonderfully presented, and there was not a weak link in the cast. When the actors were allowed moments to flex their muscles, so to speak, they shone, and their voices and faces are now what I hear and see in my mind's eye when I read . . . Which is why my issues with BoFA are all from a writing and directing standpoint.

    In my opinion, in LoTR it was easy to forgive many of the liberties taken with the plot for understanding the need to condense the massive amount of material to fit the framework of a film. While there are certainly things I wish were included or unaltered, I can sort of understand why Jackson chose to do so – Glorfindel was sacrificed in the interest of giving Arwen more screentime, and developing her character further than the mere glimpse of her you receive at that point in the books. (I'm more annoyed with the wishy-washyness of the rest of her plot-arc, but that is a rant for another time. :p) Haldir too you can understand for being included, since it was impossible to show the battles at Lothlórien and Mirkwood at the same time the Ring was being delivered to Mordor. You can understand a good deal of those changes as changes that benefit the film as a whole, and hold that course of canon-events separate in your mind.

    Now, when Jackson first made the decision to stretch the material of the Hobbit into three movies, you assumed he would do so by incorporating other events that were occurring in Middle-earth at the same time – which first seemed like a laudable goal. However, when that original plot was instead nipped and tucked in order to stretch the story over three films - mainly due to the inordinate length of the battle scenes - and the new plot elements were rushed and then left as loose ends from a writing standpoint (Sauron, the White Council, the Nazgûl, Angmar, Thranduil's backstory, to name a few), that's where Jackson's decisions start to bother me. I can forgive a lot of canon-altering so long as you keep the heart and soul of a thing intact, and this film fell flat for me on that front.

    Not to say that there was not the need for a few epic battles in this trilogy, because there most certainly was. I just wish that there was a better ratio of plot to battle – which would have helped Jackson present his version of canon better than he did. Even with the bitter end of the Hobbit, I would have loved to see a funeral, or Bard placing the Arkenstone on Thorin's chest as he was laid to rest. One of my favourite things about Jackson's RoTK is the length he allowed for the 'closure' of the trilogy; it really felt like a good-bye for everyone involved. In doing so, he would have had a great chance to portray *all* of the races coming together for the sake of all - a major point of the plot that was somewhat lost in all of the chaos and spectacle. "The Battle of the Five Armies" – if you are going to change that title from what it more fittingly first was, you may as well showcase the *people* involved in that title, rather than merely the 'battle' part. The wonderful thing about Dale and Erebor and Mirkwood is the symbiotic relationship between those three peoples – a relationship that continues into LoTR, and keeps the north-east from falling in the days to come. The start of that relationship could have been highlighted with more attention given to it at the aftermath, in my opinion, at least.

    Now, if Jackson made the choice to chop the end short out of some artistic decision to let us deal with our own emotions due to the tragedy of the plot, I will gladly let that point go. BUT, if the pacing of the movie was once again askew due to the length of the battle scenes, THAT is what gets me up and arms and annoyed out of principle.

    . . . funnily enough, I actually liked Tauriel's character better in the third film than I did in the second – perhaps because she was just there to add an emotional edge to the movie, rather than dominating the screentime. Her youth and vivacity were a great juxtaposition against Thranduil's ancientness, and the apathy his centuries and losses had inspired. At the very end, when he comforted her over Kili's death - that really touched me, and I wish that there were more scenes like that.

    (But Alfrid. *Alfrid*. Really?? o_O Are you telling me that Galadriel's great moment against Sauron was pared down to merely a *moment*, and Alfrid got that much screentime? It was not comedic relief, it was teeth-grinding, every time the camera once more turned to him.)

    As for stunts – I can see the need for explosive moments to keep an audience hooked in this day and age, especially with the amount of fighting occurring. That said, in my opinion, even LoTR erred on the 'too much for too long' when it came to battles, but that was forgiven for the plot and character development that was also occurring at the same time. To be fair, there were some ridiculous stunts in LoTR, but they helped break the monotone of the battles, and they were used sparingly – like Legolas 'surfing' on the shield down the stairs, or Aragorn throwing Gimli at Helm's Deep. In BoFA I found some things, like Thorin and Azog's fight involving the ice, creative and interesting, while other things – Thranduil beheading the group of Orcs stuck to his elk's antlers, or Legolas and the bridge, for example – were just bizarre, and even had the audience laughing around me. . . and not in a good way.

    And for an audience who isn't familiar with Tolkien's work, the movie has its flaws – I saw the movie with a group of friends, most who haven't read the books, and there were questions and confusion about what the plot skimmed and augmented. Most said that it could have been an hour film if the Orcs were cut out, and that restlessness from waiting for the battles to *finally* be over took away a lot of the emotional punch from the deaths when they did come – and that is sad for the depth of characters and threads of story that this world has going for it.

    Normally, I do applaud Jackson's efforts and thank him dearly for the world he has shown to us, but this time . . . it just wasn't the same, and that hurts me deeply to say. This is a beautiful world that he has had the honor of portraying on film, and I think that he got away from himself with this last effort. I am glad that others were satisfied with it, but this film held very little magic for me.



    . . . Now, that said, all I need is a Silmarillion set of films (twelve shall do. ;)) in my lifetime. Then life will be complete. :p [face_love]
     
  14. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    I just now took the time to listen properly to The Last Goodbye, the song recorded for TBOFA...



    The lyrics hit me hard, particulary in light of my recent personal loss, but in a more objective light I had to marvel at the genius of the film team. Beyond even the hiring of Billy Boyd to write the song, which is the ideal bridge between the trilogies, there were some interesting parallels in the lyrics, most especially with those of Into The West, which was the credit song for ROTK.

    For example, in TLG, we have this:
    Night is now falling
    So ends this day
    The road is now calling
    And I must away
    And then in ITW, there is that:
    Lay down,
    your sweet and weary head.
    Night is falling,
    You have come to journey’s end.
    Sleep now, dream
    of ones who came before.
    They are calling,
    from across a distant shore.

    And I may be wrong, but I think the songs are even written in the same key, just to unite them even more.

    At the same time, one must admit that the messages between the songs is rather different. TLG is more about trying to make peace with one's loss after going back home, whereas ITW has a more hopeful tone, singing about solace gained in a far away land.TLG, in a nutshell, tells the story of those who have been "there, and back again", and must deal with mourning their comrades in a place where sharing such feelings is all but impossible. To whom cam Bilbo tell of the roller-coaster that were his adventures, when all around him the Hobbits are concerned with more simple matters? To no one, except in the most light manner, as done at his birthday party. No wonder he went back to Rivendell with the Elves, who are equipped to deal with such matters. Which brings us back to ITW, which in hindsight can be about Bilbo finding closure at last even as to do so he must leave everything he has known behind him. There is no ideal solution to moving on, but all one can do is try, and get help when it becomes too much.

    Damn it. I blame it all on Richard Armitage, who was perfect as Thorin Oakenshield, and who made me cry as hard as Bilbo when his character passed away.
     
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  15. WarmNyota_SweetAyesha

    WarmNyota_SweetAyesha Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Mira_Jade - baby shower, huh? LOL Any intriguing names picked out? Do you and your fam like knowing the gender already? It makes shopping easier but sometimes couples like to be surprised. ;)

    laurethiel1138 - hi! Glad you're not submerged underneath DRL as much and yes, yes, we want Tolkien-esque fics from you. [face_batting]

    Love you and Mira's commentary on acting versus technical flaws of the adaptations. Very thoughtful on what was excluded versus not.
    I love also the parallel/contrasts you drew between the two songs. :cool:
    =D=

    The beauty of Tolkien's words and Mira_Jade's Taste of Shadow has spoilt me for anything purely visual though... Half of my Tolkien love besides the epicness of the stories themselves is sheer loveliness of the words! :) [face_sigh]
     
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  16. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    laurethiel1138 - That comparison just made my evening. The Last Goodbye was touching enough to match Into the West in every way, and you drew some great parallels between the two. Having Billy Boyd back to sing it was just the icing on the cake, to boot. There is no way to listen to that song without getting teary! [face_love]

    I also have to once more echo Deb's encouraging fics from you again. Have I mentioned how grateful I am that DRL has loosened its hold? [face_batting][:D]


    Nyota's Heart - I am going to be the proud aunt of a niece within the next few weeks now! [face_dancing] Her name is going to be Calionna, which I just love to pieces. My sister is hoping for a ginger baby, even, since there are strains of red hair in the family, which would be too cute for words! [face_love]

    I also have to thank you for the kind words, once again. Tolkien's universe is a breathtaking one, and its great to stand back and appreciate that beauty in any form. :)
     
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  17. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Thanks, laurethiel1138. Now I'll never get that song out of my head! :p
    I unambiguously love the end credits song for the new Hobbit. It's just so perfect...for the movies The Hobbit could have been. I've spoken before about my problems with the films, and I don't want anyone to interpret this as a backhanded compliment. It fits so well with the tone of the book, and as a lead-in to LotR, and I love it.
    In some parallel universe out there, Martin Freeman just gave his defining performance in the most-beloved and critically acclaimed film adaptation of a novel in history, noted for its restraint, its tasteful use of CGI, its superb supporting cast, and its fabulous end theme. Unfortunately, we aren't quite in that universe.
     
  18. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Random Comments, Nyota's Heart, Mira_Jade
    Thanks for the feedback on my short analysis. It's always great to know I'm not off in my interpretation of things.

    Thinking back on the film, I cannot say I do not understand your reservations. I am not blind to the film's flaws, and there were moments when I truly think PJ went overboard (Legolas on the tower comes to mind), but for me it had outstanding redeeming qualities that trumped everything else. Perhaps it's because I'm a Lit student and prone to beat a work into submission and analyse character motivations in the most minute details while at the same time seeking to understand intertextual references, perhaps it's because I tend to focus on human interaction over spectacle no matter how grandiose the setting, perhaps it's also because of my particular circumstances at the moment, but I coud not help but be moved by the film, in spite of some iffy moments.

    Even the interactions between Tauriel and Kili were fine, and did much to bring humanity to the whole experience. And in the end, I do not believe that they loved each other in a romantic way, but more in the way that the Greeks of old called "agape", which is "unconditionnal, universal love", as in each other they found a kindred spirit: young and free, and open to the wide world. Only Kili, who was awfully young and maybe brought up to look at women in one way (what with Dwarves seeking their One), may have confused his feelings for a more romantic bend. Losing a friend hurts no less than losing a family member or a life partner, depending on the depth of the connection, and Tauriel may have cried as much as she did without the need for more carnal thoughts on her part. I think that's what Thranduil recognised in the end, that isolation was not worth the emotional emptiness, and why he sought to rebuild his relationship with Legolas, extending the olive branch and giving him space to come to terms with recent events, while also giving him something useful to do. I like to think that eventually Legolas and Tauriel found each other again, and that she might have found with Gimli's friendship some solace, knowing she was right in the end.

    And do not start me on Thorin. I do not have time here to go into an in-depth analysis of his motivations. Suffice it to say, for now, that Richard Armitage could not have been more perfect a choice as far as casting is concerned, and that through him I grew interested in a race of Middle-Earth I had previously set aside. The Children of Aulë could not have had a better ambassador and advocate, and I thank him for his dedication to the role.

    As for the seeming lack of closure at the end, well, all I can say is that PJ can't do anything right, it seems. With ROTK, he was endlessly criticised for the ending fatigue, what with the numerous fade-outs, and with BOFA, when he tries to make it short and sweet, people want more. "Damned if I do, damned if I don't", it seems to me. At any rate, I truly think that there was a lot of studio interference with the editing, and for me the definitive version of the film is not the theatrical cut, but rather the extended edition, where PJ can put forward his true vision of the tale and add the quiet drama scenes that studios seem to think have no place in a blockbuster. So I will withold final judgment on the matter until next autumn, when I can see the trilogy as a whole. Then we will be able to debate its true value.
     
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  19. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    More wonderfully put thoughts, laurethiel1138.

    And I think that that is my issue with the film in a nutshell. There were some beautiful elements of character development and human interaction; but instead of focusing on those threads and giving them their due, the movie focused more on spectacle and the ridiculous. At least to me.

    That said, I can agree with you a hundred percent over Richard Armitage's portrayal of Thorin. He lent the role an amazing depth of majesty and tragic weight - something which even the books lacked, at times, and he was a true delight to watch. =D=

    --

    On a change of pace, I had the joy of seeing the touring production of Wicked last night. If anyone has the chance of seeing Laurel Harris as Elphaba, you should jump on it, because she was gold. [face_love]
     
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  20. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    So I saw The Hobbit once more last night, my second viewing. The theatre was small-ish but almost fully occupied, which tells me the film might yet have legs as far as box office is concerned.

    To change things up a bit, I saw it in 2D. I don't know if it's because of that (less chance to be distracted by egregious special effects), or because I knew the story and was able to take my time to appreciate every moment, but I found that the film actually improved as I revisited it. Though I was better prepared to face the emotional impact of the story, I still found myself shedding some tears at the end, which is telling for me, as I rarely cry at the movies. And on a second viewing, all the little, quiet scenes became more relevant, as I could examine the minute changes of expression brought by the nuances of the actors' voices and postures. The ensemble was truly top-notch, from Lee Pace's magistral Thranduil to Luke Evans' earnest Bard, from Martin Freeman's ever optimistic Bilbo to Ken Stott's sensitive Balin or Graham McTavish's stolid Dwalin, not to mention the superb (yet too brief) appearance of Hugo Weaving, Christopher Lee and Cate Blanchett as Elrond, Saruman and Galadriel.

    But the one person who carried the film on his soulders was not the eponymous hero, but Richard Armitage's Thorin. It was heartbreaking to see the Dwarven King's descent into madness, especially since there were still moments when we could see, hidden deep beneath the obsession with gold, the honourable Thorin lurking still. In his interactions with Bilbo, of course (the acorn scene and the mithril mail shirt scene come to mind), but also in his interactions with Bard (he knows he can't answer when Bard reminds him of his given word, because he knows that he is in the wrong) and with Dwalin (their confrontation in the throne room was especially moving, because we see how much the hundreds of years of loss, toil and scorn affected Thorin, he who was once a Prince of Durin's line). As I saw the movie, I took turns wanting to shake Thorin to bring him back to his senses or wanting to hug him to let him know he wasn't alone. It is a credit to Richard Armitage that he could bring Thorin to life in such a manner, giving such majestic gravitas to his portrayal of the character that even when he goes off the deep end we can't help but empathise with his plight. I think that for movie-Thorin, the trigger for the gold sickness was not knowing the fate of Fili and Kili in Esgaroth, knowing that he had sent the dragon there: he had nothing left, except for the gold, and not even his nephews' return was enough to reverse the fraying process in his mind. And that is why it was so moving, when he snaps out of it, to see him humble himself so as to say, "I have no right to ask this of of any of you, but will you follow me, one last time?". The Oakenshield was back, and the ghosts of Thror and Thrain banished. Which is why the end seems so bloody unfair. Why? Why? I knew it was coming, and yet...

    I guess that's what fanfiction is for, isn't it?

    If I may, here is a small selection of my favourite AU fix-fics, to assuage our grief:
    The Arkenstone series by Scribe of Erebor: https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4529347/Scribe-of-Erebor (so detailed and insightful, and a good one of you ever wondered how Thorin and Aragorn would deal together - read it and you'll know why)
    The Heart of Erebor: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9934628/1/The-Heart-of-Erebor (where much treachery is afoot, and events do not quite happen as expected)
    In Search of a Queen: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9674118/1/In-search-of-a-Queen (where an unlikely candidate is embroiled in the courtship of a certain Dwarven King - if you want Jane Austen in Middle-Earth, it's as good a take as any)

    One last word about Billy Boyd's song, in which Tolkien's concept of Applicability is yet another time employed. Listening to it again the other day, it struck me how it could also be about Thorin's life, as the phrase "And though where the road then takes me, I cannot tell" seems most especially apt to describe his fate. For the afterlife of the Children of Aulë is unknown, though it is thought that they have a section reserved for them in the Halls of Mandos. If one looks at the lyrics from Thorin's point of view, images of Thror, Train, Frerin and Dis come to mind (and perhaps a long-dead sweetheart, lost but not forgotten), along with images of the Company. Evocations of Erebor that was, of Moria and of Ered Luin, and of the years of hardship in exile. And Thorin's heart-wrenching longing for home, for the halls of his youth...

    And I'll stop here, because this is already quite a long-winded post. If there's anything else, you'll know.
     
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  21. Idrelle_Miocovani

    Idrelle_Miocovani Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I finally saw the movie last Friday. I felt like I was trapped in a mediocre fantasy RPG video game focused on grunt work fighting.

    I hate to say it, but I was... bored. The most satisfying part of the film was the soundtrack (thank you, Howard Shore). Poor pacing kills a film, TV show or theatrical event for me. The writing on this film was atrocious and poorly executed, the direction lacked a vision... while it had a great cast, even their remarkable acting skills were not enough to save the film for me. I have never felt quite so "meh" about a major character death before.
     
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  22. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    Mira, congrats on the niece! That is a gorgeous name, and not one I've heard before. Where did your sister get it? Also, as a ging, I'll cross my fingers on that front -- we need more of us in the world! :p
    /
    Thank you all for the answers to my Hobbit questions! I think this sums it up for my disatisfaction:

    That's it for me. The acting was AMAZING, but, as Mira said, I wish:

    there had been fewer battles and more character development/a longer ending.
     
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  23. Mira_Jade

    Mira_Jade The (FavoriteTM) Fanfic Mod With the Cape star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Aww, thanks! I'm hoping for a ginger too. I have such hair envy on that front. :p

    It's a made up name! Her husband wanted to be able to use 'Cali' as a nickname, so they played around with different sounding names from there, and that's what they ended up with. [face_love]
     
  24. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    An interesting bit of speculation regarding the EE, which I dearly hope we'll be able to see, because more Thorin is always a good thing (and not just because RA is such a splendid actor - though it does factor into it, of course):

    http://whatsnewwithkru.blogspot.fr/2015/01/extended-edition-predictions-whats-in.html

    I especially like that line: "Since Thorin isn't the most optimistic dwarf..." [face_laugh] Probably the understatement of the century!

    In all seriouness, though, it would fit in nicely with what Thorin said in the film about gold: "Beyond grief, beyond sorrow".
     
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  25. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    Mira, that's awesome! I love it :D

    laurethiel1138 that's very interesting! I would love to see more Thorin (and I'm actually particularly interested in any scenes after the battle). Do we have any info on when the release will be?