LOTR-FOTR - NOW DISCUSSING Chapter 28: Gilraen's Memorial*

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Moleman1138, Mar 12, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 6
    the flashback was my favorite part of this chapter. especially when Gandalf jumps on to the bird to escape Sauramon
  2. CaptainBinaca Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2005
    star 3
    My favorite part of this scene was the look on Gandalf's face just as he says the line, "Oh... I was delayed." Clearly the loss of his old friend and fellow Istar (to the Dark Side, if you will)had taken a great emotional toll, but he knows it's not for Frodo to have to be burdened with this as well so he hides his grief as best he can. Yet another bit of perfection from MacKellen
  3. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    It's an odd decision to show Gandalf's escape in flashback like that, rather than just showing it when it happens, but I like it a lot.
  4. Bacon164 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    Maybe it's another homage to Bakshi? He did a bit of the same thing in his cartoon, although it didn't seem as if Gandalf actually told Frodo anything in Jackson's version, whereas Gandalf in the cartoon recounted it as a narrative and a flashback, relating what happened at Isengard to the current situation with the ring. I think both Christopher and Ian did some fine acting in this scene and I also love the shots with Gwaihir and Saruman's foreshadowment of Gandalf's fall as mentioned earlier. Rivendell really doesn't seem to be the focus of this scene. Instead, it is focused on getting caught up with the characters and their stories.
  5. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I wonder why they would call the chapter Rivendell in the first place? Should be like Gandalf's Escape From Isengard or something to that nature.
  6. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    But that would blow the whole chapter right there in the title!! :p
  7. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah but they're known for such revelation.
  8. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). LOTR-FOTR Chapter 23: Many Meetings DISCUSSION will be made available 11:30 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  9. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Due to the success of the PT and CT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss LOTR: FOTR (The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring ? Extended Edition) chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 46 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 47: Credits and Chapter 48: Official Fan Club Credits*

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 23: Many Meetings
    DISCUSSION: August 29, 2006 ? September 2, 2006
    DVD TIME INDEX: 86:05 ? 89:33

    Synopsis:
    After the flashback, Sam enters the room seeing that Frodo is on the mends. Sam has been by Frodo?s bedside refusing to leave. Elrond of Rivendell enters the room welcoming Frodo to Rivendell. Frodo and Sam go outside and embrace their friends Merry and Pippin. Frodo then sees a quickly aging Bilbo who shows Frodo his book. Later Frodo and Sam are on a balcony and Sam is ready packing. Frodo questions what he is doing since he wanted to see the elves. They did the task. They are ready to go home. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    This is definitely a scene to gather your strength and at the same time create an emotional reunion that has a running theme in the series. It really has a lot to say about the four hobbits, five if you count Bilbo. There is this tight bond and it shows.

    The introduction of Elrond is pretty cool, well reintroduction because know we know that he was at the battle at the beginning of the movie as referenced in the next chapter. Also good to see Bilbo again and the Hobbit. I love the art direction of the Hobbit book and the use of makeup on Ian Holm. Without the ring, Bilbo does age quite a bit and it shows.

    A scene like this shows that you don?t need action to have a good scene. This works so well and since Rivendell is like a big break, it?s just amazing in the long run. When Frodo says he?s ready to go home, it honestly seems like the movie is over. Luckily the voice over that runs into the next chapter comes soon enough for people not to get the wrong impression.

    I also like that the Hobbits have an interest in the elves. This was said earlier when they saw the Elves pass to the Grey Havens in the new scene. Great chapter that focuses more on the actual title before the Fellowship becomes a fellowship.
  10. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
  11. DarthPhelps Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    It's a nice little break from the drama that has transpired up to this point: Gandalf is back, Frodo is better and the four friends are together.

    It gives a respite for the upcoming Council scene, where the mission is set that drives the drama & events for the rest of this movie, and the other two as well.
  12. Bacon164 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    I love all the Rivendell scenes, but the Bilbo scene here is magnificent.
  13. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    Put Ian Holm in a scene and you'd be hard pressed to have a bad scene.

    But, yeah, this is great and it's quite amazing, knowing the story, to hear Frodo hope that his journey is over now. It just gives you cold chills, knowing just how incredibly far he still has to go.

    And it underlines his basic unwillingness to go, which makes his acceptance of the burden in the council of Elrond just that much more moving.

    Great scene.
  14. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Even though Frodo wants to go home, he doesn't take the easy way out because even though he has to test himself through the trials and tribulations of the journey, the reward to heaven at the end is worth it.
  15. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). LOTR-FOTR Chapter 24: The Fate of the Ring DISCUSSION will be made available 8:20 PM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  16. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Due to the success of the PT and CT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss LOTR: FOTR (The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring ? Extended Edition) chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 46 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 47: Credits and Chapter 48: Official Fan Club Credits*

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 24: The Fate of the Ring
    DISCUSSION: September 13, 2006 ? September 17, 2006
    DVD TIME INDEX: 89:34 ? 93:06

    Synopsis:
    Elrond is surprised to see how fast Frodo is recuperating. Gandalf says that he should have never bore this quest to Rivendell. Elrond says the One Ring cannot stay in Rivendell. The elves are leaving Middle-Earth. They talk about who to put their hopes into. Elrond dismisses dwarves. Gandalf says men, but Elrond knows that men are weak. Elrond was present when the ring left its master. In the chasm of Mount Doom, Elrond told Isildur to throw it into the fire, but he refused. Gandalf says there is one who can reclaim the throne of Gondor, but has chosen exile. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    This chapter does so much in so little time. First of all it reestablishes that Elrond was at the Battle of Dagorlad and he knows quite a bit about the Ring and everything. Like the Saruman escape a chapter or so ago, this needs a flashback and rounds the prologue quite well. I can?t tell you how many times I thought Isildur at Mt. Doom was in the prologue and not here.

    Also you see a distrust of elves and dwarves, which is foreshadowed at the council before the break. Elrond?s comments make the dwarves quite stereotypical characters, though the dissing of men is unexpected, but believable with the Isildur incident. Elrond?s cynical view on Middle-Earth has quite some effect.

    I actually like the Mt. Doom scene as it foreshadows the Frodo, Sam and Gollum scene in Return of the King. Frodo like Isildur strays from its destruction in almost the same fashion. If Elrond wanted to be rash, he could have pushed Isildur into the lava and Lord of the Rings would?ve never happened. But can the elf do murder of that kind? I don?t think so.

    The editing at the finale here is great because Gandalf speaks about the exiled King of Gondor and in the next shot, Aragorn looks at the screen giving it away. It?s right on the borderline, but can be talked about in both chapters. Good chapter.
  17. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
  18. Bacon164 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    I don't really like how Elrond is written in the filmed trilogy. He's ridiculously pessimistic. I suppose it makes sense because the elves apparently are quite pessimistic, leaving Middle-Earth and all but it didn't really fit for me. Weaving did play the written character quite well, however.
  19. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I think he has high expectations of Middle-Earth. He and Galadriel pretty much crafted the world in the Third Age and he knows the failures of men and doesn't want to it happen again.
  20. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    I think if you had lived for thousands of years or whatever, you would be pessimistic. :p But, seriously, yeah, he sees Middle Earth slipping away; it's the age of men and men are, well, deeply, seriously and tragically flawed in a way that the elves are not.

    Weaving certainly is brilliant; this bit is his first real showcase and Isildur's Bane is particularly well done.
  21. severian28 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5


    I always thought that logic to be reversed, that the elves ( like the angels in the bible ) were partly envious of men, as well as parental to their phlight, that the mortality of man was not actually a tragedy but a sort of harmony and closure that the elves didnt have, that the unknown fate of men was infinetely more desirable than the eternity of elves - an eternity that gives alternate definitions to concepts like time and sorrow. The flaws of men in Middle Earth were just footnotes to the REALLY tragic flaws of the elves as illustrated in The Silmarillion. Isildurs Bane is, in alot of ways, not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning. LotR is a fantasized history of pre-historic man whose fourth age is us, here and now. The story isnt really over.
  22. DarthPhelps Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    In the preface of my copy of Silmarillion, there is printed a letter from Tolkien to a Milton Waldman. Within that he states the following regarding Man's mortality:

    ?Since the point of view of the whole cycle is the Elvish, mortality is not explained mythically; it is a mystery of God of which no more is known than that ?what God has purposed for Men is hidden?: a grief and an envy to the immortal Elves.?

    So there is likely a little of both from Elrond: grief and envy.



    I also like the tie-in to the prologue; how we again see how old Elrond is, and that his knowledge of the ring and its power can be in part attributed to having experienced the effects firsthand.

    Isuldur?s claiming of the ring ? very sinister. I loved it.
  23. Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 6
    great lead in to the next chapter. Hugo Weaving was a great choice for Elrond
  24. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). LOTR-FOTR Chapter 25: The Sword That Was Broken** DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  25. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Due to the success of the PT and CT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss LOTR: FOTR (The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring ? Extended Edition) chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 46 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 47: Credits and Chapter 48: Official Fan Club Credits*

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 25: The Sword That Was Broken**
    DISCUSSION: January 1, 2007 ? January 5, 2007
    DVD TIME INDEX: 93:07 ? 95:45

    Synopsis:
    Aragorn is reading a book when sees Boromir looking at a painting of the Battle of Dagorlad. Aragorn catches Boromir?s attention, asking who he is. He says he is a friend of Gandalf the Grey. Boromir then goes over to the Shards of Narsil, picking it up and feeling the weight of the sword. He cuts his finger on the blade, dropping it when he puts it back. He doesn?t pick it up and leaves. Aragorn picks it up and puts it back in its rightful spot. Arwen comes into the chamber telling Aragorn that he is not bound to his ancestor?s fate. She assures Aragorn that his time will come, even though he feels the weakness of man running through his veins. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    This is a great real introduction to Boromir and the revelation that Aragorn is the heir to Isildur. This scene was extended a bit and I think it works for the better in the long run even though it?s just a few seconds.

    I like how Aragorn acknowledges his relationship to Gandalf, even though the collaborative hunting expedition for Gollum is not referenced. There is this subtle hostility from Boromir. He has an idea that Aragorn is the heir, which in my opinion contradicts his reaction at the Council of Elrond. It?s hard to say, but I think Boromir feels intimidated and aroused by the Shards of Narsil.

    Arwen does add well in this scene, allowing her to be a rock to Aragorn. Fellowship is the only time I actually like Arwen, because in Two Towers and Return of the King the feeling changes drastically, especially with a better woman in Eowyn on the scene. She is actually the one who reveals Aragorn?s lineage. I think it was better her at first than Legolas at the Council of Elrond.

    Aragorn feels vulnerability developing his character quite a bit. The inner struggle through these three films with Aragorn really starts here as we learn the backstory. We couldn?t tell in Bree or on the road, but now it works and makes more sense. Good chapter.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.