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LOTR-FOTR - NOW DISCUSSING Chapter 28: Gilraen's Memorial*

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Moleman1138, Mar 12, 2006.

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  1. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    The births are pretty disturbing. A little nod to Jackson's background in horror, I think.
     
  2. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    I love everything about this scene. The Isengard theme is awesome (love playing what I can by ear on the piano), and the first shot sells the whole scene. More Gandalf is cool, and Lurtz is a badass villain. I like how Saruman holds backs the orcs from saving the other orc dude from Lurtz so that the first thing he does in life is to kill. Not that I felt sorry for the orc, though.
     
  3. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    best thing about this chapter is the birth of The Moth Theme [face_love]


    although, sadly, it got a lame official title in the meantime... something with Nature... meh
     
  4. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 18, 2004
    The moth cue is subtly beautiful and works in the latter scene in ROTK.
     
  5. Zizz

    Zizz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Is the Moth Theme the same music that is playing during the marching of the Ents and the ride of the Rohirrim?
     
  6. Boba_Fett_123

    Boba_Fett_123 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2002
    It plays when the Ents storm Isengard, and again when the eagles arrive.
     
  7. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    And the Charge of the Rohirrim (actually, before the actual charge) and when they leave Edoras [face_love]
     
  8. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 18, 2004
    It's practically blaring during the non-moth scenes. But it still has that feel of Rohan since the once beauty of Fangorn and Isengard are both in the Kingdom of Rohan
     
  9. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 18, 2004
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). LOTR-FOTR Chapter 21: Flight to the Ford DISCUSSION will be made available 2:45 PM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
     
  10. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 18, 2004
    Due to the success of the PT and CT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss LOTR: FOTR (The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring ? Extended Edition) chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 46 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 47: Credits and Chapter 48: Official Fan Club Credits*

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 21: Flight to the Ford**
    DISCUSSION: August 4, 2006 ? August 8, 2006
    DVD TIME INDEX: 77:39 ? 84:04

    Synopsis:
    Frodo is lying in the grass. Sam says that Mr. Bilbo?s trolls are overhead. Strider says that Frodo is passing into shadow and needs attention. He wants Sam to find the Athelas plant. Sam doesn?t understand. Strider calls it by its other name, Kingsfoil. Sam knows that and goes looking for the weed. Aragorn goes out and tries to cut a plant. A blade is put up against his neck. It is Arwen. Frodo sees her in a distance. Light shines around her. The hobbits wonder who she is, then realize that she?s an elf. Strider says for Arwen to watch the hobbits as he goes to Rivendell. Arwen says that she is the fastest rider. She takes Frodo on horseback and they ride into the plains. The next morning, Arwen confronts some Nazgul, trying to avoid them at every turn. They come to ford. For a second, the Nazgul are hesitant to cross, but they do. Arwen calls upon the spirit of the elves, who flood the ford. Frodo is fading. Arwen is ready to sacrifice what grace has been bestowed on her for Frodo?s sake. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    In the books this is the end of Book One. It is ultimately a cliffhanger because Frodo is passing into shadow. This is the first of many times where Frodo is near death. Of course he cheats it for the story to go on, but still it is still a powerful scene that complements those similar to this down the road.

    The Extended Edition addition here is the acknowledgement of Mr. Bilbo?s trolls from The Hobbit. It?s great to have that in there because fans of that book will really keen to it. Honestly I thought the trolls were closer to Bree or the Old Forest, but this is good. I like the recurring theme that nature is a transcendental sub-savior. The Kingsfoil is supposed to help Frodo and this is later brought back in the Houses of Healing, though never mentioned.

    The introduction of Arwen is pretty much her best moments in the entire trilogy. After this I can?t stand her character since she?s replaced by Eowyn who is way better than she is. This is where Arwen really kicks butt, but in the actual book, the character to does all of her deeds in Flight to the Ford is Glorfindel. I can understand from Jackson?s POV that Arwen needed a larger role and it works only here.

    The actual flight is pretty cool. I love when the tree scratches her and when they get to the ford, it?s just great cinema here. Liv pulls off the ?If you want him come and claim him really well? and the Nazgul charge is chilling. Love the CG water horses and flooding of the ford. Great chapter.
     
  11. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    For those who are just joining us or would like to review past discussions:

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23397931]Chapter 1: Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All?**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23447369]Chapter 2: Concerning Hobbits*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23487104]Chapter 3: The Shire**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 4: Very Old Friends**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 5: A Long-expected Party**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 6: Farewell, Dear Bilbo[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23632196]Chapter 7: Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23632196]Chapter 8: The Account of Isildur[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p5]Chapter 9: At the Green Dragon*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23753499]Chapter 10: The Shadow of the Past[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23792147]Chapter 11: The Passing of the Elves*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p6/?126]Chapter 12: Saruman the White[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23866487]Chapter 13: A Short Cut to Mushrooms[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23866487]Chapter 14: Buckleberry Ferry[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23941583]Chapter 15: At the Sign of the Prancing Pony[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23941583]Chapter 16: The Nazgul**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24154043]Chapter 17: The Midgewater Marshes*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24233719]Chapter 18: The Spoiling of Isengard[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24233719]Chapter 19: A Knife in the Dark[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24468076]Chapter 20: The Caverns of Isengard[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24568512]Chapter 21: Flight to the Ford**[/link]

    Don't forget we are still discussing [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=24568477&brd=10669]ROTS[/link] and [link=http://boards.theforce.net/classic_trilogy/b10002/23829021/p1/?0]HP-TSS[/link] in the [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Board.aspx?brd=10669]PT forum[/link] and [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Board.aspx?brd=10748]SFF Film and Television forum[/link]
     
  12. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    I agree that it's a great introduction for Arwen, even though poor Glorfindel was axed because of it - but then again, why have an otherwise unimportant character save the hero?
    The flight is wonderful (esp. since at this point there haven't been dozens of helicopter shots yet ;)) and a good amount of tension before the quieter Rivendell sequence.

    And again, one of my favorite pieces of LotR music.


    On a side note, I really like Arwen's sword.
     
  13. jag29

    jag29 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2002
    I believe it would have been OK to introduce Glorfindel in this scene. As far as the movie goes I mean why would Elrond send his daughter out into the wilderness to bring back Frodo. With Elrond's gift of foresight he knew that the Nazgul were out there. Why not send one of his bodyguards so to speak to bring back the Hobbits. In the scenes to come they could just have had Glorfindel follow Elrond around, showing that he was a soldier of some kind.

    Even though I like the introduction of Arwen in that scene, it would have been OK if it was someone else.

    On a side note. Was the Witch-King present up on the watch tower the scene before? I don't remember the book saying he was. Its been a while since I read the book.

    Jag29

     
  14. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    In the third movie, Gandalf says he was the one who stabbed Frodo at Weathertop. Not entirely sure if it was in the book, but since all 9 were looking for the Ring, why not have him be there?
     
  15. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Glorfindel would've been a one-trick pony if used here. Anyways I think Elrond with his foresight knew Arwen's capabilities and it shouldn't been a problem since the power of the elves at the ford would've protected her and Frodo.
     
  16. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Lovely head-nod to the Trolls.

    Arwen is great here. I think this was a wise move of Jackson to replace Glorfindel with Arwen. In the books, where dozens of characters rotate in and out, never (or briefly) to be seen again, it's alright for Glorfindel to step in here. But a movie is more limited. Same goes for Arwen in general: in the books, she can afford to be kept to the sidelines and be a meaningful and important character - but for the films, which don't have the time and ability for all the subtleties of a novel, we need to see her more active.

    The scene itself was also well done IMHO. I love how Arwen and Strider are right down to business planning, while the Hobbits are left in the dark - it really shows how well they know each other from the start. Also like Arwen's "I do not fear them" - there's something ethereal and haunting in it.

    And I lurve the camera shots and music of the flight itself. There's something about the aerial shot of the riders behind Arwen that I love.
     
  17. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    This scene was ruined by Jackson's move to incorporate Arwen as a "warrior princess" type of figure. I'm fine with Arwen replacing Glorfindel, that was actually a great move. I think it was a horrible decision to have her escort Frodo to the Ford, however. This is probably my number one annoyance with FOTR, if there are any others. In the books, Frodo's (not Arwen's) flight to the Ford was a scene of character development on the part of Frodo. It showed a bit of his continual progression from a hobbit of the Shire to a hero of Middle-Earth. In the film, this is basically reduced entirely. I mean, from a film's standpoint ONLY, the scene works really well, but just knowing the books makes me not a big fan of this scene. IMO of course. FOTR is my favorite piece of the trilogy in both book and film forms, but if one scene wasn't given justice from the book, the Flight to the Ford is it. The music and camera choreography is lovely, though. I guess I like everything about the scene except Arwen's involvement.
     
  18. Jedi_Master_Conor

    Jedi_Master_Conor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 24, 2005
    good chapter. i like the nazgul chasing Arwen and when they get washed away. good CGI effects
     
  19. jag29

    jag29 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2002

    Reason I was asking because since no man can kill the Witch-King, why would he take off and not fight Aragorn on Weathertop? Sauron wanted the ring and I don't understand the reasoning of the Nazgul leaving in such a hurry because of one man.


    Jag29
     
  20. DarthPhelps

    DarthPhelps Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2002
    The addition of "Bilbo's trolls" was a wonderful thing for me. I love all tie-ins to Hobbit & Silmarillion (Legolas' reference in a later chapter to "a Balrog of Morgoth", for example).

    The chase was fantastic, a very dramatic moment, and the payoff with the horse-headed rush of water was very well done. An excellent chapter.
     
  21. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 2, 2000
    Like most, I loved the nod to Bilbo's trolls in the EE.

    One bit I don't like is when they get across the ford and Arwen gets down off the horse and starts crying over Frodo for a few minutes and then gets back on the horse to take him to Rivendell. I mean, just, let's go, okay? :p
     
  22. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    she had to pass her grace onto him or whatever she's saying :D I'm sure it was highly important tending and it was actually Glorfindel who brought Frodo from there to The House of Elrond, leaving an exhausted Arwen behind [face_peace]
     
  23. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 18, 2004
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). LOTR-FOTR Chapter 22: Rivendell DISCUSSION will be made available 9:00 PM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
     
  24. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Due to the success of the PT and CT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss LOTR: FOTR (The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring ? Extended Edition) chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 46 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 47: Credits and Chapter 48: Official Fan Club Credits*

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 22: Rivendell
    DISCUSSION: August 14, 2006 ? August 18, 2006
    DVD TIME INDEX: 84:05 ? 86:04

    Synopsis:
    Frodo groggily wakes up hearing the voice of Gandalf. He is glad to see him but wonder why he never fulfilled his promise to meet them at Bree. Gandalf says that he was delayed by Saruman's betrayal. Flashback to Orthanc Tower where Saruman is putting Gandalf through several tests of near death experiences. Gandalf seeing Gwahir the Windlord decides to tell Saruman that Sauron will not share power. He is the Lord of the Rings. Gandalf jumps on the eagle and flies over the Misty Mountains. Frodo looks at Gandalf concerned. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    Even though this chapter is called Rivendell, we don?t see an exterior shot of this city of the elves. However it is a beautiful chapter that definitely sets up a twenty minute period of catch up in terms of holding back on the action.

    The opening definitely parallels the shot of Frodo in the Houses of Healing at the end of Return of the King, just in a reverse angle. Here it is so serene and heavenly that it almost seems that Frodo has died, but you know from the last chapter and healing scene that it is not. This establishes so much in so little time.

    We also bring the audience back to the Gandalf and Saruman confrontation because the last time we saw Gandalf, he was at the mercy of his ex-friend and wizard Saruman the White. This totally wraps this up well for now. I like that Gandalf says Lord of the Ring, just like in every other film they say the film?s title.

    Saruman also says that Gandalf has chosen death and it is a foreshadowing of what is to happen in Moria. The shots with Gwahir and over the Misty Mountains are great additions as well as the music. Great chapter.
     
  25. Moleman1138

    Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2004
    For those who are just joining us or would like to review past discussions:

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23397931]Chapter 1: Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All?**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23447369]Chapter 2: Concerning Hobbits*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23487104]Chapter 3: The Shire**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 4: Very Old Friends**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 5: A Long-expected Party**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p3]Chapter 6: Farewell, Dear Bilbo[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23632196]Chapter 7: Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23632196]Chapter 8: The Account of Isildur[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p5]Chapter 9: At the Green Dragon*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23753499]Chapter 10: The Shadow of the Past[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23792147]Chapter 11: The Passing of the Elves*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/science_fiction_and_fantasy_films_and_television/b10748/23397899/p6/?126]Chapter 12: Saruman the White[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23866487]Chapter 13: A Short Cut to Mushrooms[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23866487]Chapter 14: Buckleberry Ferry[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23941583]Chapter 15: At the Sign of the Prancing Pony[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=23941583]Chapter 16: The Nazgul**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24154043]Chapter 17: The Midgewater Marshes*[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24233719]Chapter 18: The Spoiling of Isengard[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24233719]Chapter 19: A Knife in the Dark[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24468076]Chapter 20: The Caverns of Isengard[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24568512]Chapter 21: Flight to the Ford**[/link]
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23397899&brd=10748&start=24568512]Chapter 22: Rivendell[/link]

    Don't forget we are still discussing [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=24678536&brd=10669]ROTS[/link] and [link=http://boards.theforce.net/classic_trilogy/b10002/23829021/p1/?0]HP-TSS[/link] in the [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Board.aspx?brd=10669]PT forum[/link] and [link=http://boards.theforce.net/Board.aspx?brd=10748]SFF Film and Television forum[/link]
     
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