LOTR, The Matrix, and the Star Wars PT: Which trilogy will stand the test of time?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by ElfStar, Oct 7, 2002.

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  1. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Of people I've talked to about SW... there's some bona fide bashers, a vast majority of the "TPM sucked but AOTC was great so it worked out okay I guess, but you'd better not drop the ball on Episode III, George" type, and only a few bona fide bashers.

    But the vast majority out there in my experience is people who have never given a crap about SW... who might not even have seen an SW movie, or tried to watch one of the OT and wasn't impressed.

    Hey, to each his own.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  2. DarthCartman1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2003
    Jake was trying? Well maybe he should have tried a little more. I'll give you that he was only a kid, and I don't beleive the right kid for the job but we were stuck wiht him. I just relate more to Reeves becasue he is older and his roles were more dynamic. Reeves isn't really used to playing parts like his in the Matrix. He is more suitable in roles like Bill and Teds, Pointbreak, The Replacements, and other horrid movies. I think that he is stiff and not very flexable, but he is not horrible. Jake's character just was not very convinving to me. But hey you may be right I may be crazy but I just may be...
  3. Jedi-Monkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2002
    star 4
    I'm not gonna try and say that all of my friends think TPM and AOTC are superior to, or even equal to the earlier three movies. BUT, the vast majority of them don't really see a huge difference between them. Of course not all of them are die-hard SW fans, but those are the ones that simply don't see the differences. When I tell them about some of the things I have heard people complain about on here, they give me a puzzled look and say but aren't ALL the movies like that? A lot of the people I know, the only difference they see between the older ones and the newer ones is that the newer ones have better-looking effects.

    And about Keanu Reeves, I have to agree with whoever said he was worse than Jake Lloyd. Jake Lloyd was a kid who was acting like a kid. Keanu Reeves is, (supposedly,) a professional actor who isn't much better at the craft than a department store mannequin. I have seen way too many of Reeves' movies, and he has yet to turn in a single decent performance. Give me Jake Lloyd any day.
  4. DarthCartman1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2003
    Ok you win Jake for best actor...
  5. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Why pretend that the critical response won't effect the legacy of TPM? It was slammed routinely in reviews as a poor film. A letdown in the saga. It stirred up hate and disgust. TPM created hated character ever. All these things will be a major part of the recollection of the PT. Whether you like it or not, the media has a huge impact.
  6. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "Why is it that I never meet ONE person who has something positive to say about the films?"

    Dare I say it, but do people fear your communication skills and the passion you have explaining the Prequels? You'd slice me up and convert me if we met in real life. I wouldn't be able to match your debate skills, I'm sure. [face_mischief] 8-}
  7. DarthBane93 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 1999
    star 4
    Anyone want to comment (if it has already I apologize) on the fact that no LOTR or Matrix characters made it onto that AFI heroes and villians list? Does this affect the way those movies will "stand with time" and be as memorable?
  8. Grizham1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 2
    Hmmm, anyone notice that the matrix website has a huge section in it that only goes along with the philosophy involved in the matrix movies? I"m sure most of you have seen this if not you should take a look at it. Lord of the Rings doesn't have nor does it need a website like this, people have written about the symbolism (or applicability, not allegory mind you) in the Lord of the Rings for the past 50 years. The new starwars movies don't have anything like this except for these boards. Of course I forgot to mention that the philosophy section at the matrix website is only essays by Dr.'s of science, philosophy, psychology, etc., which lends credence to their essays and content. So what does this mean? Lord of the Rings gets a point, Matrix a point, and The new starwars movies are left with a big 0.
  9. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Anyone want to comment (if it has already I apologize) on the fact that no LOTR or Matrix characters made it onto that AFI heroes and villians list? Does this affect the way those movies will "stand with time" and be as memorable?

    Not keen on AFI, they are one of the few Lucas supporters. Lucas has obviously bought them.
    (This will NEVER get old.)


    Rick McCallum loves you!
  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    So what does this mean? Lord of the Rings gets a point, Matrix a point, and The new starwars movies are left with a big 0.

    Hey, if the first thing you look for in a film is philosophical junk professors can write about, then by all means, go nuts over LOTR and The Matrix.

    Me? I prefer to have fun and be entertained by films. Crazy, yes, but that's just me. The Star Wars movies did that better for me than TM or LOTR.

    Star Wars gets five for me, the others get a big zero! :)
  11. DarthCartman1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2003
    StarWars has stuff written on it too, almost everything has stuff written on it, to go out and say that prof. have written analysis on movies does not really say much. If you try hard you can probably find something worth while written on Jake Lloyd...
  12. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I never saw much philosophical in LOTR. Heck, potentially the most symbolic bit in the whole thing (Gandalf's sacrifice and rebirth) got shot down 'cause Tolkien said he didn't want Gandalf interpreted as a Christ figure.

    I see the LOTR books as a wonderful journey of heroes in a magical world. It may be a deeper story than SW, but then SW focuses on pure fun, not describing the ancestry of every single leaf as Tolkien does.

    I'll give the Matrix the most points for deepness. Too bad I didn't find it particularly amusing.

    If I want to see a good, deep "genre" film that is also entertaining, I'll watch Dark City. Or (this is stepping a bit outside sci-fi/fantasy) Brazil or Being John Malkovich.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  13. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    JediMonkey -

    I hear ya. ;)

    As I've said, if you post your opinions as 'fact', don't be surprised if someone challenges you on it.

    As for God - he don't post here.

    Better luck next time.

    g
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    "Why is it that I never meet ONE person who has something positive to say about the films?"

    Birds of a feather flock together, I suppose.
  15. appleseed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 4
    Of all the people I know and discuss the prequels with, I know one person who likes them but likes the OT a little more. Everyone else I know likes the prequels quite a bit. It's just who you know and get along with. I've known people who have whined about and bashed SW since Empire. Then there's some people who just don't like anything.

    Of course, all of us who do like the prequels are just lying to ourselves, and are delusional. Remember that.
  16. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    Dare I say it, but do people fear your communication skills and the passion you have explaining the Prequels? You'd slice me up and convert me if we met in real life. I wouldn't be able to match your debate skills, I'm sure.

    I don't need to tell people the prequels are bad, they can see that themselves. And I don't think I would have converted you, or the other way around. We're frozen in time you see.

    Ooh, and the bird thing. What a comment. Do you really believe people who do not like a film flock together? Because of a movie? Friends are friends beyond the quality of a movie, I would think...not that we ever talk about SW anymore.
  17. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    another excellent reason to boycott episode III!

    Yes please do. Because I don't really want to hear you whine about it afterward.


    Oh and what I gather from people who supposedly know people that all hate the films or the people that know people that all love the films. It's a matter of selective perception. You see what you want to see. You want to think others have the same opinion as you and both sides percieve that to be the case. Just like the people that at every showing of TPM the crowd was booing and hissing while there are the others where the crowds were cheering the whole time. How could this be? Most likely it was a little of both but due to your own perception of what is the "true" reality then you see what you want to see to enforce that reality. Myself the people I surround myself with like the prequels. They feel that it's more Star Wars and that's a good thing. They feel that overall more Star Wars is good, the films are exciting and it's all good fun. So when we talk about the prequels we talk about the positive things. I only really see and hear negative things on message boards and occasionally from the media.
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Ooh, and the bird thing. What a comment. Do you really believe people who do not like a film flock together?

    How could you possibly take offense at that? I was merely stating that most folks generally choose to associate with like-minded people. All I'm saying is that whatever qualities attract you and your friends to each other are the same qualities that lead you to arrive at a similiar conclussion about Star Wars. Just like the friends I hang out with love the prequels and the originals about equally. In other words, your circle of friends aren't exactly representative of society at large as the sample size is too small and non-random.
  19. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    another excellent reason to boycott episode III!

    Yes please do. Because I don't really want to hear you whine about it afterward.


    If only we could be so lucky. I have a feeling that Dr. E already knows which theater he's going to see the film in.
  20. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    For what its worth, I dont care for any of these trilogies. I DID care about the matrix until I saw reloaded. LOTR are very good films, but I find them a bit humourless and pretentious for my tastes. I prefer the books. Episode III might be good, although I'm not banking on it.
  21. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    How could you possibly take offense at that? I was merely stating that most folks generally choose to associate with like-minded people. All I'm saying is that whatever qualities attract you and your friends to each other are the same qualities that lead you to arrive at a similiar conclussion about Star Wars. Just like the friends I hang out with love the prequels and the originals about equally. In other words, your circle of friends aren't exactly representative of society at large as the sample size is too small and non-random.

    He knows what you were saying. He just thought it was stupid that you would think that the PT hatred would be a major factor contributing to their friendship. And, yes, suggesting that their common interests would somehow lead them to like and dislike the same films is a huge stretch. You are over-simplifying the notion of friendship between two people by stating that people who are friends will have the same tastes in SPECIFIC areas.
  22. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    For what its worth, I dont care for any of these trilogies.

    Hey, to each his own. :D Out of curiosity, IS there a modern movie franchise you're big on at present? (X-Men? Spider-Man?... The Fast and the Furious? ;) )



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  23. Jedi-Monkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2002
    star 4
    JediMonkey -

    I hear ya.

    As I've said, if you post your opinions as 'fact', don't be surprised if someone challenges you on it.

    As for God - he don't post here.

    Better luck next time.


    Gez,

    No, I don't think you hear me at all. But that's your choice and your right and not my problem. And congratulations on whatever "victory" you think you have achieved here. Enjoy it in good health.
  24. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    I know what theater I will be seeing Ep. III in. Opening night.

    Just like I knew exactly where I was going to go to watch Jordan's "official" last game this past NBA season. He was not spectacular (the crowd erupted when he made a free throw in the 4th quarter) and they did not win, but it was just something after all the past years of wonder and amazement, that I had to see.
  25. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    He just thought it was stupid that you would think that the PT hatred would be a major factor contributing to their friendship.

    That would be stupid say, which is why I never said it.
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