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Lots of people hate AOTC and PT in general because it requires you to have a shred of intelligence

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthCaulfield, Jun 14, 2002.

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  1. DarthCaulfield

    DarthCaulfield Jedi Youngling

    May 27, 2002
    Have patience with me, I'm relatively new, but I wanted to discuss something I've been thinking about. I've noticed a lot of critics complaining that AOTC's plot is "incomprehensible." I don't know about everyone else, but it was crystal clear to me, and it was incredibly satisying. The way Palpatine was manipulating everyone was great. I think one big reason that many people have responded negatively to the PT is because they - and I'm trying not to sound too pompous - quite frankly cannot think on a complex level. The PT requires an understanding of political maneuvering, the use of military force to consolidate power, the ways in which great civilizations rise and fall, and - more importantly - it requires an INTEREST in such things on the part of the viewer. For instance, I've noticed that some people, even on these boards, don't understand that the Republic TURNS INTO the Empire. They think the Empire is some outside force that takes over. If one were to think this, the entire point of Sidious/Palpatine character is lost! Not understanding the decay of this once great galaxy seriously takes away from one's enjoyment of the PT. I am not referring only to the people on these boards; I'm thinking this may be the reason for the dislike toward the PT from casual viewers and the general public as well.

    Became a basher/gusher thread
  2. Spike_Spiegal

    Spike_Spiegal Jedi Youngling star 5

    Mar 11, 2002
    Where do the ducks go in winter? :(
  3. sdj

    sdj Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jan 3, 2002
    What's the Empire? I miss Han Solo. I see Luke, but no Han.
  4. rsterling78

    rsterling78 Jedi Knight star 5

    May 26, 2002
    the Republic TURNS INTO the Empire

    Hey, pal, how about moving this to the Episode III spoiler board! You've just ruined Star Wars for me. And just when I thought I understood why those robots were fighting those guys in the white armor.

  5. woody_1138

    woody_1138 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 17, 2000
    S..tar? Wars?
  6. DarthCaulfield

    DarthCaulfield Jedi Youngling

    May 27, 2002
    I only emphasized that because I'm so suprised that some people really didn't get it.
  7. woody_1138

    woody_1138 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 17, 2000
    In all seriousness, I agree with you.

    I still have to explain what's going on to my girlfriend when we watch TPM or AOTC. She loves the action and the cute things. But the politics?? VROOOOOOM!!!!!!

    Some folk lack the ability to pay attention to detail and exposition. And it helps to know the OT like the back of your hand.

  8. maul_grrrl

    maul_grrrl Jedi Youngling

    May 28, 2002
    DarthCaulfield, I have found your observation to be true. I know a couple of people (obviously not big SW fans) who didn't like AOTC (or TPM) because they have such short attention spans and showed impatience towards the plot. An explosion every minute - that's what they wanted. God forbid they have to watch a movie that causes them to think. Sheesh!
  9. Darth_OlsenTwins

    Darth_OlsenTwins Jedi Master star 5

    May 18, 2002
    I think that this problem is huge on this board. All I've seen in the last week is "I should've seen this" or "he should've did that". People do not seem to understand that somebody is trying to tell you something. They are trying to complete a wonderful story and the most prevalant thing that I've seen lately is this ridiculous nit-picking. People need to quiet their minds and realize that there is a tragically inspirational story in front of them...

    Anyway, I'm rambling and I'm drunk and a little pissed about half of the threads...

    Sorry and thanks for letting me vent a bit...
  10. sdj

    sdj Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jan 3, 2002
    Your focus determines your reality.
  11. Christovsky

    Christovsky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jan 28, 2002

    Ouch! It's 3:00 in the morning and I just woke up to this. Look man, I love STAR WARS, but I HATE the PT -- and I HAVE half a brain.

    The story is fine...all the ideas for the PT are's just that George Lucas doesn't provide proper...presentation; he's a weak director. He gets so caught up in War Scenes, and Animation and all sorts of all stuff that he doesn't give good build-up and what not.

    Geez, don't you 'basher-hating' gushers, get it?! People don't like the story because they are dumb...(GL isn't that brilliant)

    ...they don't like the story because Lucas can't tell his stories with inspiring and original filmmaking!
  12. skillmatic

    skillmatic Jedi Youngling

    Jun 3, 2002
    the problem i have with AOTC's complexities is the fact that you need knowledge outside of the movie in order to understand it. the prime example of this being sifo-dyas. i shouldn't have to read the novelization in order to understand who he is and what his role in the creation of the clone army was (i still don't know). it was never fully explained in the film.

    along those same lines, another reason AOTC is getting bashed in reviews is because the line between good and evil is too blurred. you have dooku who is the leader of a possibly legitimate separatist movement (why should we believe this movement is any less legitimate than the rebellion in the OT?) against a republic led by palpatine who we know from the OT to be evil. so you can't really cheer for the republic but at the same time, for most of the film you don't know enough about the separatists to form a solid opinion of them. to contrast that, in the OT the line between good and evil was very distinct and that was one of the trilogy's strengths IMO. was there ever any real ambiguities as to the loyalties and motives of a character in the OT? was there ever any confusion as to which side vader was on, or which army the emperor was controlling?

    i don't know. part of me says that a complex plot is a good thing, but part of me thinks that all these politics and ambiguities make the stories a little too slick for their own good. there's a little too much going on in the films. somebody said watching AOTC is like reading cliff notes and i agree. lucas seems to be painting too broadly in this trilogy. like he wants to show us everything he's ever thought of about this universe he's created, including the politics, which... i mean, does anybody really care to know the nitty gritty political details of how the empire came to power? or would we rather see more of an "adventures of (grown up!) anakin and obi-wan" type trilogy? more detail about the characters, less about their surroundings. i don't know. maybe that's a personal preference of mine, but it seems like other people are getting hung up with the politics as well.
  13. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    May 26, 2002
    the problem i have with AOTC's complexities is the fact that you need knowledge outside of the movie in order to understand it

    Indeed! Same with TPM. My sis who doesn't read SW novels kept asking me "What are the origins of the Sith?? Why the rule of two???"

    When I told her it was all in the TPM novelization, she did a very good impersonation of an anti-EU person :p and said "The books don't count! I want stuff from the movies!"

    And sadly, I can't provide that.

  14. Darth-Jedi

    Darth-Jedi Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 21, 2002
    Alot of people think convoluted(I think that's the right word)plots that require paying a good deal of attention and sometimes wtahcing the movie more than once, are not good. Particularly critics, they want to watch it once and write a review. And let's face it, if you aren't a Star Wars fan alot of stuff in AOTC won't make much sense(The Force is not explained in AOTC). Lucas is making these films for the fans not the critics.
  15. JediTidus

    JediTidus Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 5, 2002
    I think that Darth-Jedi brings up an excellent point, to the casual movie goers, a lot of the stuff in AOTC goes right over their head. Some parts of the story and many of the jokes. I've had numerous people ask me questions about the movie after watching it simply because they don't understand. On the other hand, die hard fans like ourselves understand everything, so the experience is going to be different.

    Another point that someone brought up is that he would rather see character development rather than politics. I feel that this merely a matter of preference. I enjoy politics, so I enjoyed the plot of AOTC a lot.
  16. darthsidious32

    darthsidious32 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Nov 26, 2000
    Well, I agree with you too, DarthCaufield. There are a lot of people who don't like these new movies because they're totally different than the OT. They grew up on the OT, understanding each and every little detail. But when viewing the PT, one has to realize that the details of these movies are MUCH more complex than the OT. The OT is about good vs. evil, whereas the PT is about HOW that good and evil came to be - proving to be a much more complicated story in the process. They should just watch the PT altogether when they're all released onto video/DVD. The problem is that they already have the preconceived notions that they suck.

    But of course, there are the people who DO understand the complexities of the PT, and yet they still hate these movies. WHY?!!!! These movies are totally Star Wars!

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In THOSE people's minds, they have an "OT Standard" for grading the prequels. They say, "Oh, it's not as good as ESB," or "TPM and AOTC are so terrible - they never measure up to the OT." The flaw in this way of thinking is that in twenty years, there will BE no "OT Standard" to the new generations that view these movies. It'll all be one saga, with each movie being graded individually. Sure, the new generations will have favorites out of the saga, but I'm sure that you won't see them saying, "The prequels aren't nearly as good as the OT!" They won't hold the last three movies as the standard for which all the movies should be. There'll be NO prequels. There'll be no OT. Therefore, the OT Standard most of us use will be irrelevant - and it will make for a much better way for viewing these movies IMHO. People won't be so jaded then.
  17. Sithchilde

    Sithchilde Jedi Youngling star 1

    Feb 14, 2002
    Ok, now I'm confused.

    Are we saying critics didn't like AOTC because it was too complicated, or are we saying that critics didn't like AOTC because it's a old fashioned Sci-fi adventure serial, and not some complicated art flick?

    Are we saying that fans who didn't like AOTC because it isn't like the OT, or because it isn't as good as the OT?

    How about, instead of trying to come up with reasons why the people who didn't like AOTC are jaded/cynical/incapable of grasping the complex politics/looking for depth instead of treating it like a popcorn movie, we just accept that it is possible for intelligent people with their "childhood sense of wonder" intact to dislike AOTC?

    I don't get why we have to question the intellectual capacities of people who don't like a film.

  18. Padme Bra

    Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 2, 1999
    I agree. I think some people don't know what they want. They like their big budget FX movies to be simple and stupid so they can gaze at the FX and then complain later that it had no plot. Then AOTC comes around and they don't know how to act. ANH was simple, that was its charm. The good guys and bad guys were clear cut and everything was straight foreward. The PT is a different story. And I think it's a better one.
  19. GrandMoffTarkin

    GrandMoffTarkin Jedi Knight star 5

    Jun 22, 2001
    To be honest, I think the thread's angle is a bit harsh. I think it comes down to personal opinion and nothing more.

    That's for the general public at least. Lots of critics walk in to the cinema and hate the film because it isn't about a bunch of people wearing dark shades and killing innocent bystanders, or some complicated love triangle with the mafia involved. And besides, they do hate Lucas.

    But the hatred between prequel bashers and gushers has to stop. I've had a "friend" who has not said anything to me in the last month other than "Star Wars is ****!" This did bother me intensly, and I began to really hate him. But I've cooled down now and I just ignore him.

    Bashers, leave us in peace to enjoy our film and accept that we do. Gushers, admit they aren't the greatest movies ever and accept that some people simply don't like them.

    Sorry if I got a bit carried away there...
  20. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 4, 2002
    I picked up a copy of "Total Film" (it's an English publication that you can pay through the nose for over here.... ) and it sumed up AOTC perfectly for me....(paraphazing the quote) "Like it's central character, Anakin Skywalker in AOTC, the Star Wars series grows up..."

    It's NOT the OT, (which I grew up with and love) but a part in the over all picture.
    I LOVE the fact that things are no longer black and white, no definative good vs evil... I LOVE the fact that GL is messing with my perceptions of beloved characters!
    I agree w/ Darth Olson twins ( [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] you KILL me with tha name!) a lot of the post on these BB are just plain silly ("would you be in a coma for the next 3 years?")... thank GAWD for the scroll bar hu DOT?
  21. Rikalonius

    Rikalonius Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jul 26, 2001
    Ever notice that the people who dislike AOTC the most are people who list much more complex movies top 10 lists. Oh, you probably didn't since you just got here in May.

    I liked AOTC, but it was very shallow, very cliche, and depended on to many special effects instead of a good story telling. Now I will 10 movies I really loved and can think of right off the top of my head.

    Ben Hur
    Seven Samurai
    to name a few newer:
    Lord of the Rings (Fellowship)
    Beautiful Mind
    Mystery Alaska
    The Empire Strikes Back (although it wouldn't really make the top 10 if I thought about it hard)

    So, listing those movies, your going to tell me I'm stupid and have no attention span. Ok...
  22. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Apr 6, 2000
    So, listing those movies, your going to tell me I'm stupid and have no attention span. Ok...

    The ability to watch a movie doesnt make you intellegent ;) :p

    Lots of people hate AOTC and PT in general because it requires you to have a shred of intelligence

    I must say, anyone who hates any film, needs to re-think their life. Hate is such a strong word.
  23. Rikalonius

    Rikalonius Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jul 26, 2001
    Mesa no likin that movie....mesa thinks Lucus writing terrribbbbblle.
  24. TokyoXtreme

    TokyoXtreme Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 24, 2001
    Hey SLAVE2, I was at the dictionary the other day, and I picked up something for you. It's the second entry for the word "hate":

    extreme dislike or antipathy : LOATHING <had a great hate of hard work>

    Is everything clear now?
  25. TokyoXtreme

    TokyoXtreme Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 24, 2001
    And I thought AOTC was a children's movie (like all SW films)? Why should the plot be so complex then, if it's for kids?
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