Lots of people hate AOTC and PT in general because it requires you to have a shred of intelligence

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthCaulfield, Jun 14, 2002.

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  1. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I was really excited when I read the Graphic Novel. But what started the dislike was that they left out key scenes were dropped. Palpatine's annoucement of Padme's death, Anakin's extended confession, the mission into the core ship. Instead we were treated to childish C3PO antics.

    And that's your problem. You are criticizing the movie for something that was not in the movie. I hope you read the entire script, novelization, and comic for Episode 3 so you hate it just as much.
    BTW, did you forget all of the "childish C3PO antics" from the OT???
  2. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Its true that Bashers in general are older and more educated. more or less intelligent? who knows.

    This is a pretty stupid thread, but i believe turnabout is fair play. I understand perfectly that Gushers are tired of being made to feel stupid for loving such a lousy movie (TPM). So by all means say whatever you have to if it makes you feel better.

    quote:

    BTW, did you forget all of the "childish C3PO antics" from the OT???

    I guess its his use of really bad puns that makes people cringe. His complaining in the OT was either innocuous or amusing depending on who you ask. His little quips in AOTC were terribly self-conscious and unfunny. Still, it was hardly the worst dialogue in the PT.
  3. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    A section of the review linked to above:

    George Lucas and Jonathan Hales' screenplay for Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones is very close to the most inept piece of hubristic garbage I've ever had the alarming misfortune to see realized. The resultant film is 140 minutes of pure treacle: such words as "awkward swill" or "excrescence" do not begin to suggest the stink of it. While Lucas has always been a poor filmmaker

    Riiiiiiiiight.
  4. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Gushers are tired of being made to feel stupid for loving such a lousy movie (TPM).

    I don't love TPM at all. I love AOTC, but at least half of TPM was utter crap.
  5. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    i wasnt talking to you directly foxbat. But frankly loving half a piece of crap is no different than loving the whole thing. And believe it or not, AOTC, while more entertaining, had many of the same faults as AOTC. Its not like Lucas transformed himself into a different filmmaker between then and now.
  6. obioneinchkenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 1
    For the record, let me first say that I really like the PT, but I think the reason a lot of people don't like it or don't think it has the character development is because............................how do I put this, I'll use a novel as a comaprison, if the OT is the meat of the novel, then the PT is just the prologue. It's all meant to be set up, not that it isn't interesting, but it is different intentionally. Remember, the PT covers so many more years than the OT, but only using three films. In that sense it is understandable why relationships may seem rushed, or character development lacking. Am I making sense? I hope I am at least a little.

    P.S. - I still don't like any of the PT films as much as the OT, but I've lived with the OT for 20 years.
  7. Brodie123 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2002
    star 1
    Thanks for the review, Rikalonius. I couldn't agree with it more. Here is the line he wrote that sums it up for me:

    "Episode II, you see, is more a sequence of events related to an assumed knowledge of the Star Wars universe than a proper narrative."

    That sums up the movie pretty well for me.

    AotC a movie for the intelligent, I hear many PT sympathisers crying? It is quite the opposite. It is a flashy movie for the dull witted. The backbone of the movie is Special Effects and half finished plot lines that ultimately lead to questions unanswered. That is not a properly constructed narrative, it is a poorly derived hodge-podge of confusing antics. Hardly something for the "intellects" to appreciate.

    I cannot believe the insults that are thrown at critics of AotC, like myself, who have every reason to dislike it (i'll list them some time, if need be) are now being taken out and beaten because, in the eyes of most of the Star Wars fanatics here, anything George Lucas is a divine piece of art that shall not be criticised in any way, and only praised in all it's glory.

    Well unfortunately people, I'm not a sheep that follows and likes every one of Lucas' commands. I use my intellect to my own advantage and derive conclusions about the movies I like and dislike.

    People who don't like Star War AotC are dull witted because they don't understand the plot? No. George Lucas is dull witted because he can't write a competent narrative.
  8. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Wow, I didn't know I was "dull-witted" because I thought AOTC was a good movie. I guess I should give up my pilot's license and never fly again...
  9. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    ((Why do people think the Han/Leia romance is more interesting or believable that the Anakin/Padme one? It's basically the same relationship. The straight-laced politician girl and the poor bad boy. The AOTC relationship is actually more believable because Padme is younger than Leia and Anakin has been thinking about Padme for 10 years.))

    Nope, Leia is younger than Padme, and Han is, of course, older than Anakin and Leia. An older "rebel" getting a straight-edge woman is common sense. It would be different if Han whined about how Jabba treated him and strarted tossing things every time he was in Leia's presence, broken up by brief mentions of I LOVE YOU YOU SOFT, SOFT WOMAN in between the whining, but this was not the case. Sorry.

    I guess you're one of those bashers that don't understand the plot of the movie! Oh, wait...you liked it, didn't you? :)
  10. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    SWfan2002


    That is point. I really shouldn't even get on this thread because of its arrogant assumption.

    There are plenty of smart people who like and don't like AOTC. The fact that both sides tell eachother they have no righ to their opinion is stupid. We are here because we want to talk about Star Wars and how it relates to our lives.

    I'm here cause I'm either at work or rendering something, so I like to pass the time here.

    I thought the movie was decent, but I like to debate it's merrits or how it could have been better.
  11. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    funny poll in OT forum!

    haahahahaahahah go see
  12. Qui Gon Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 1
    What criticism! A Star Wars film accused of being flashy and for dull-witted people!!

    I heard the critical elite say the same thing of the original Star Wars.
  13. Darth_Mohel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Great thread. I definitely agree with the premise.
    I love the political manuevering of the PT.
    And it does help to have some bit of intelligence to understand what's going on.
    Although I think you can enjoy half the movie if you don't.

    (BTW I have a PhD in Molecular Microbiology)
  14. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    So waitaminute, is this movie "for the kids and for the general public" or not? Because I saw a whole lot of people who defend the movie saying that you have to "dumb yourself down" to appreciate it.

    Perhaps the author of this thread should confer with the fans that use this defense before he creates a topic such as this, eh?
  15. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    I hate when people don't listen to what people say and then try to use their own misunderstanding as a defense. Yes TPM seems very simple on the outside with a complicated under story. Now AotC is complicated on the inside and outside with several things that are subtle political manipulations of Palpatine and some things that do not come to frutition until further episodes. So please pay attention and don't come up with your own version of what people have said.
  16. DarthCaulfield Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    I would say this movie is not specifically aimed at kids. Just because kids like a film doesn't mean they are its main audience. For example, I LOVED Ghostbusters when I was a little kid - but I thought it was meant to be serious. I loved the proton packs, but being a little kid I didn't understand 99% of the jokes, nor did I udnerstand that it was a comedy. But I still enjoyed. Likewise, I think AOTC can be enjoyed by children for its special effects and action, while adults can enjoy it for these things AND the more complex political/military/power issues as well.
  17. Qui Gon Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 1
    The movie is for the general public. Don't you guys think GL wants as many to go see it as possible. It's not just for kids and the "fans". By the way, I always believed Star Wars fans were the general public, not some fringe group that hangs out on message boards. A lot of people see the Star Wars films, love them to death, and never visit these sites.

    Star Wars and AOTC are meant to be seen by as many people as possible.
  18. digitalyodarules Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    How can someone think Han/Leia is better than Padme/Annakin? Remember this word from Kindergarten folks:TRIANGLE. Let's face it Leia had the hots for two men - Han and Luke - and Han, the loner really had one human friend in the whole galaxy - Luke Skywalker - who he thought had the inside track to getting the woman of his dreams, Princess Leia. Now, remember the end of Return of the Jedi, when Leia tells Han Luke's her brother, and gets out of the TRIANGLE, there was some suspense to see who she'd pick. But Padme and Annakin; she's a serious leader of an opposition movement to the biggest peace of legislation about to hit the galaxy and what does she do, instead of worrying about the vote and being in constant contact with her allies in the Senate she takes long picnics with Annakin. I'm not too impressed with the political stuff either, since the only other opposiiton leader (remember Dooku get's hundreds of systems to join him, so I figure there lots of people in the Republic Senate - aids, droids, Senators, secrataries etc.), who has the guts to say what's on his mind our trusty Conquistador, Bail Organa, but he only talks to the Chancellor, and not to his allies or potential neutrals in the Senate. The plot/politics are glossed over so we can have lightsaber duels and picnics. How lame can the Jedi be, if they think they can't protect some one on their own turf. Courscant is crawling with Jedi and other security. Wouldn't assassination attempts gain sympathy for her in the Senate? Swing some neutrals her way? Change the minds of people not under Palpatine's spell, who really don't want war, but see no alternative? Or is the Senate so greedy and corrupt assassination is just politics as usual? Questions we'll never no the answers to, too bad.
  19. tooltre Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2000
    star 3
    AOTC's plot wasn't complex...It wasn't thought out too well, is all. Think about it. Jango tells obi that dooku commissioned him to be the foundation of the clone army, while dooku is leading the separatists against the republic...think about it...HOW COULD OBI WAN HEAR THIS, report it to the council and yoda not say "wtf!!!". Seriously...by introducing the fett crap into the movie he completely moronized the story.

    I think the real reason why people hate the PT is because of the cgi. From people that didn't grow up with cgi movies and effects, I can say that in the star wars universe it really detracts from the magic. Sure we're glad to see massive wars and whatnot other-wise thought to not be able to be made without cgi...but the total absence of human characters and the humanity of the human characters lead people to dislike what is nothing like the original trilogy. If that's not intelligent I don't know what is. Maybe you all should watch the real trilogy without all the added special fx crap the special editions tacked on and see what the real magic of star wars is.
  20. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think the real reason why people hate the PT is because of the cgi.

    [sarcasm]Yeah I think we should go back to horrible matte lines, pathetic looking explosions, and aliens that look stiff and move awkwardly...[/sarcasm]
  21. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    Yeah that isn't the brightest statment in the world. The CGI was fantastic. I do disagree when people say the characters looked faked. I think ILM did a fabulous job on say Yoda. I did think the Rek (spelling) was a little shakey, only after Anakin started riding it, it didn't look natural, but hey, it was a valliant effort

  22. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I can accept the fact that some people dislike the movie because they didn't like the characters, the story, the dialogue, etc...but when people complain about CGI I just don't know what to tell them. What did they expect?
  23. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:

    (BTW I have a PhD in Molecular Microbiology)

    no one asked for your "resume" dumass.
  24. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Dahveed,

    You're an angry person. If trained properly, you could be an assest to some decrepit rich guy. hehe. Seriously, you're rather funny sometimes. I know you are serious atm, or at least half way, but you should always include your disclaimer:

    "Don't mind me. I'm just an old codger with a foul temper, who needs to blow off some steam every once in awhile."

    Or something to that effect. :D I mean, that's what you told me. (BTW, I'm only 17 *lie* don't curse, I can't handle it *lie*.)
  25. Jedi Chikara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 1999
    star 4
    Isn't it the height of egotism to say that you're more intelligent than someone else because you don't like a movie they do? Please, express your opinions but don't try to make yourself out as better than someone else when all we're discussing are opinions. And this goes for both sides of the debate.

    For the record, I really like AOTC. And I also love classic, artistic cinema. Let's not try to come off as cultural elitists, when we're disussing a movie with syntax-challenged green gnomes, gay droids and people running around with glowsticks and spouting dialogue about some mystical power called "The Force".
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