Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by King Terak, May 25, 2013.
Agreed. We didn't get enough of him in the films. I absolutely loved Dooku's character as we got to know him more and more in the EU.
I wish they would have explained more of his personal agendas, especially why he sided with Darth Sidious and became a Sith.
Can't go wrong with anger, greed and lust for power.
Please, Episode VI Palpatine is the ****
Yeah, but he was supposed to be a good man at one time. Why he left the order isn't explained on film and it comes off as weak. Just saying...
Palpatine/Sidious is one of my favourite aspects of TPM. It's fun to remember when I didn't realise it was the same character (I wasn't really a fan at that stage). The character is easily a high point of the movie, and you can see the foreshadowing of ROTJ's Emperor, and get a sense of nostalgia (for lack of a better word) viewing how everything fell into place. It's just interesting seeing him working behind the scenes before he gets cocky and doesn't have to hide it by the time of the OT.
Sidious Episode I = Noah Cross...Awesome!
Personally I think he's AWESOME in Episode I. Absolutely fantastic....so cold and evil. For the most part you can pretend Sidious and Palpatine are two separate characters.
Sidious is good in episode III and not really in Episode II.
I actually much prefer the EPI Sidious to all other versions of him/Emperor. I thought that he was a bit meh in EPII, I thought some of his actions were to erratic in EPIII, and in EPVI I thought he was ok, but too old and cocky. I thought he was very cold, calculating and ruthless in EPI, and that was what I loved about the character.
I have actually been thinking about this recently. Indeed, the appearance of Sidious in Episode I makes me feel earie, even when I know that he is actually Palpatine. There is such a big contrast between Palpatine and his alter-ego (Sidious) in Episode I than there is in Episode III, which I appreciate. His holographic appearances and hooded face indeed manifest him as a 'phantom menace'. In essence, Sidious orchestrates all the political events in Episode I as a means of reaching his ultimate goal and I feel that in Episode III this is made more explicit and obvious i.e. we already know too much. Also in Episode I, very few of the scenes show Sidious, when in reality his power and influence is implicit in many of the scenes e.g. he orders the Trade Federation of Naboo. Whereas in Episode III he is very central to the film.
So I agree that his appearance in Episode I is short and sweet, though his Episode III role is also effective in its own way.
Well, he only makes a couple of appearances in Episode II, though I admit that he doesn't appear as menacing.
I think he's excellent in all of them, although there are a few iffy moments in ROTS, but other then that I think he nailed it in all of them.
Yeah he goes a bit strong with the deep voice after Anakin's conversion, though maybe that's exactly what Lucas wanted.
Dooku left the Order because he was disillusioned with the political corruption and squabbling within the Republic, and he probably saw the Jedi as a party to that crime. So I think he had a good motive in leaving the Jedi and he certainly had some faith in the Confederacy's agenda, even if his primary aim was to use it as a stepping stone for the Empire that his master said he would be part of.
Indeed, he was a good man and, if he had not joined the Sith when he left, you could probably still call him a good man. He is one of the 'lost twenty' of the Jedi Order who have a plaque of themselves in the Jedi Archives, which can be seen in Attack of The Clones. Obi-Wan described Dooku's loss as the most painful.
There are some hints in other sources that he wasn't all that good. Even before he left outright, he was voicing an interest to Palpatine in finding the Sith, and joining them, in Darth Plagueis. And a book showing scenes from Dooku's early career (as a Padawan, and with Qui-Gon) - Legacy of the Jedi, suggest he was pretty cold and ruthless even then.
As does the RoTS novelization.
If you only go by the films, and only the films, there is no explanation of why he (a Jedi Master) fell to the dark side. Yeah, all this might have been explained in books, but it should have been stated in the films, too.
Here's what we know about him from the films: he was a student of Yoda's — this is probably the case with a lot of Padawan younglings, anyway. Like Obi-Wan was in his adolescence, most of the Jedi that we've come to know on screen were probably Yoda's apprentice, too. So that means that what ever happened to Dooku falling from grace had something to do with the failed teachings of his second master — whoever that may be. It also makes sense that this is what happened since we know from the OT that Obi-Wan failed as a master but there was no mention of Yoda doing so, too. Dooku later became a Jedi Master and taught Qui-Gon Jinn, sometime after the young Jinn was taught by Yoda I assume. Going by the coversation he had with Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon's death seemed to bother him, and that curruption in the Senate was something he wasn't going to tolerate any longer. He also tells us that hundreds of Senators are now under the control of Darth Sidious, and that the TF were betrayed by him ten years prior, which clearly corroborates the events that occurred in TPM.
The books tell us so much more, yes, but why wasn't it put in the films? I'm sure his ideals and vision of a newly structured Jedi Order would have been fascinating to hear about, and I'm sure it wouldn't have taken much screen time to convey all this in the film, too. Uh, well.
I thought the reason Dooku left the order was not only because of the corruption in the senate but also because of Qui-Gon's death. He believed the the Jedi cost Qui-Gon his life because they didn't listen to him and take him seriously about the Sith returning.
That was part of it. In Darth Plagueis, he says "If one more Jedi dies because of the incompetence of the Senate, I will leave and never look back" - and shortly after, Qui-Gon dies.
So in protest to a Sith killing his pupil, he became a Sith himself?
I always thought interpreted that as simply being a cover story - the version of Dooku talking to Obi-Wan that pretended he was merely a principled separatist before anyone knew he was actually a Sith.
I didn't mean because Qui-Gon was killed by a Sith, Dooku became a Sith. What I meant was that he left the Jedi because his mentor Qui-Gon had been killed because the Jedi failed to act. They didn't believe Qui-Gon and didn't investigate the issue and because of that, Qui-Gon was needlessly killed.
Dooku then quit the Jedi Order because he felt that the Jedi were ignorant, stubborn, set in there old ways and too slow to act, and along with the corruption of the Senate he thought it was time to move on, as he did.
Yes but he still became a Sith which makes such apparent upset around Qui-Gon's death seem a little implausible. And pretty soon after as well, considering he ordered the clone army 10 years prior to AOTC and directly replaced Maul. Then again, is there anything to say Dooku didn't leave the order long before Qui-Gon was killed? I think it's fairly open to individual interpretation. I simply see him as a disaffected Jedi who, at one stage, left the order and was probably recruited by Sidious as soon as Maul was killed (the gap between those two events isn't mentioned in the film). All this "I'm doing this because of the corruption in the senate" stuff seems to simply be a cover... unless he doesn't know that Palpatine is Sidious (which, from what we see in ROTS, he surely does).
Yes. The novels. And I think possibly movie novelizations and Visual Guides as well.
Well whether the novels are acceptable evidence in-universe is a matter up to any one individual. Personally, I don't consider them canon.
Lucas had a certain amount of involvement with some of the novels- and especially with the movie novelizations. All the stuff in the TPM novel about Darth Bane, who is never mentioned in the movies- came from him.