Lucas and his right to make TPM (and the rest) his way.

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Go-Mer-Tonic, Sep 10, 2002.

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  1. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I don't know what to say. Your initial view of ANH (Star Wars) was awful? Well I guess you are in good company. Go-Mer didn't care for a lot of the OT when he first saw it too. But it explains a lot though...
  2. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Go-Mer-Tonic

    Call it losing your inner child, call it growing more cynical, call it being better versed in the way movies are made, but the bottom line is we didn't get hung up on every little thing in the classic trilogy and so we accepted it into our hearts and never asked it to leave. Since then, our "better taste" went on duty, and now some of us can't get into a new SW movie if our very lives depended on it.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but it's not "the little details" that stop me from liking TPM and AOTC; it's the stonking great big ones like lousy dialogue, clumsy directing, terrible pacing, appallingly bad editting, bad plotting etc, etc, etc.

    Now, IN MY OPINION, the acting, directing, dialogue, plotting, pacing, characterisation, editting and a whole host of other things are better in ANH, TESB and (to a lesser extent) ROTJ then in TPM and AOTC. You disagree? fine. But don't tell me that I am "overlooking" the flaws in the OT. I'm not. I'm aware of them, but the positive FAR outweighs the negative.



    DarthTerrious

    Nevermind the bad dialogue, some bad acting etc. You grew up loving it and convincing yourself that Star Wars was higher than it actually was

    OMG, what the heck is that about? Do you have some kind of magic eight ball that allows you to read the minds of others?

    Now you have seen 2 prequels and are bought back down to earth to view what Star Wars really is. Bad dialogue, bad acting etc. And you don't like it. Thats too bad.

    So, let me get this straight. You think that the acting, dialogue etc in the two prequels are bad...but that's ok because you think the dialogue and acting in the OT is just as bad?? And you are a fan of SW???? Ok, well, good for you.

    I, on the other hand, am a SW fan because I consider the majority of the films to have great acting, great dialogue etc.
  3. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    >>>I wanted something similar in terms of filmmaking quality and character development. I've not seen that so far. The PT has either focused too much on the incidental (Anakin's early childhood, Jar Jar Binks) or not enough on the important (The real strength or presence of the Sith, Obi-Wan's and Anakin's "friendship", Shmi's death and it's impact, the love story of Anakin and Padme, etc.)

    Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship seems to have developed between TPM and AOTC. Just like Han and Lukes.
    Half of ROTJ focussed on the irrelevant Jabba the Hutt.
    Luke's foster parents death was completely ignored after he'd looked moodily at the binary sunset.

    Check your benchmarks.


    >>>He's gotten older and disconnected from the medium of film. He hasn't practiced in 16 years.

    I liked this comment, mainly because Lucas has probably done more to shape the medium than anyone else in the last 16 years (see AVID [originally "EditDroid"], ILM, THX, etc. etc.)
  4. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship seems to have developed between TPM and AOTC. Just like Han and Lukes.

    Not really. The fact is we already saw Han and Luke's friendship develop in ANH. The fact that it has further developed inbetween ANH and TESB is different to the uttter lack of friendship shown between Obi-Wan and Anakin in TPM and the one friendly conversation they had in a lift in AOTC.


    Half of ROTJ focussed on the irrelevant Jabba the Hutt.

    Err...don't understand this one. Jabba is mentioned in ANH as being after Han, and a bounty hunter captures Han to take him to Jabba in TESB. Thus Jabba is very relevant in ROTJ.

    Luke's foster parents death was completely ignored after he'd looked moodily at the binary sunset.

    Yep. Totally agree. Makes you wonder if he really liked them that much.

    Goes off to the Basher Sanctuary to look moodily at Binary Sunset


  5. Menlu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 2
    hawk: "I didn't say you were in denial. I suggested that there were people out there who perhaps can't accept that they don't like TPM. If you want to lump yourself in with these people, it is you who is doing this not myself."

    My point was that this is an extremely sweeping (not to mention personal) accusation since you are including several people in on it. Since you left it so wide-open, how was I supposed to know that I was not included (esp. since several here have mis-labeled me a "Gusher").

    "And you were called a troll because you 'are' a troll Menlu but we still like you because of our open-minded nature."

    Hmmm, aside from some comments I made a few weeks ago (which I admitted to and apologized for) I feel I've actually been pretty open-minded and fair in my arguments since.
    I don't consider disagreeing with Bashers in the Bashers Sanctuary to be trolling (after all, people who share common beliefs don't always agree with each other). I haven't personally attacked anyone or said things just to get a rise out of people (at least, I've tried not to) as of late. I have simply been responding to those comments which I feel I need to respond to in as fair and open-minded manner as possible.
    But if you interpret this as trolling, then so be it. I obviously can't change your mind.

    "And I was even trying to get along with you until you made it clear that you can't manage to be civil."

    I find this an ironic statement considering it was you who, just recently, snapped "Shut up" at me in one of your replies.
    And you are calling me uncivil?

    "I don't see all those flaws in the OT because they simply are not there."

    You honestly are saying that there were no flaws whatsoever in the OT? C'mon. No movie (or movie series in this case) is perfect.

    DarthTerrious(referring to ANH): "I couldnt connect to the characters and I thought everything was boring."

    "Sure I probably cringed a few times because Luke was way too whiny"


    These were (and to a point, still are) my main problems with ANH. The characters were, for the most part, unsympathetic and lackluster.
    Also, I felt the action dragged at several points in the movie (esp. the Tattooine scenes).

    "But still the problems in ANH are the same with TPM and all the SW movies. But Idont let that cloud my judgement of what a great saga GL is producing."

    Amen.

    "Live in your cuckoo land, I dont care."

    Now, now, no need for this. Opinions are opinions.
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Oh yeah, the wonderfully "open minded" basher's sanctuary, where only the negative opinion is allowed at the threat of being banned.

    Dr E: "Everything about the prequel trilogy so far sucks... PERIOD. And we have open minds."

    Go-Mer: "Wait, no it doesn't"

    Darth Stryphe: "TROLL!!!!!"

    Go-Mer: "But"

    PM From Oakesteve: Come on Gomer, you don't want to be banned for existing in a threrad you aren't wanted in do you?

    Go-Mer: Sorry, I was being all closed minded again, wasn't I?
  7. Menlu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 2
    Go-Mer:
    "Basher: 'It sucks, and we have open minds'

    Go-Mer: 'Wait, no it doesn't'

    Basher: 'TROLL!!!!!'

    Go-Mer: 'But'

    PM From Oakesteve: Come on Gomer, you don't want to be banned for existing in a threrad you aren't wanted in do you?

    Go-Mer: Sorry, there I was being all closed minded again..."


    ROFL! The funny (and sad) part about this, is that it's not far from the truth.
  8. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, hilarious, considering the fact that if you go into the gusher sanctuary, or TPMDF or whatever it's called, and do the same thing, just from a basher standpoint, then the mods will still warn you. At least in the sanctuary we can point out what we like and dislike without getting flamed or ridiculed by some of you, and that's the whole point of it's existance.

  9. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    All of those threads are fundamentally closed minded.

    My God, you talk about needing shelter from ridicule, so you can ridicule George Lucas in peace?
  10. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I'm including your entire post, so that everyone will know which one I am referencing before you edit it again, Go-Mer.

    Oh yeah, the wonderfully "open minded" basher's sanctuary, where only the negative opinion is allowed at the threat of being banned.

    Quite the contrary. We have disagreements in the Sanctuary frequently. However, we know how to disagree without simultaneously being condescending and engaging in ad hominem attacks. Sometimes things flare up, which is unfortunate and reflects badly on everyone involved, but by and large, we *are* open-minded in the Sanctuary.

    Dr E: "Everything about the prequel trilogy so far sucks... PERIOD. And we have open minds."

    Go-Mer: "Wait, no it doesn't"

    Darth Stryphe: "TROLL!!!!!"

    Go-Mer: "But"

    PM From Oakesteve: Come on Gomer, you don't want to be banned for existing in a threrad you aren't wanted in do you?

    Go-Mer: Sorry, I was being all closed minded again, wasn't I?


    Playing the victim again, Go-Mer? The past year and a half of listening to your "rebuttals" has taught me that instead of the possibility of the PT being thus-far sub-par, my inner child is dead, I'm overly cynical, I'm intolerant, I "just don't get it," I'm missing obvious symbolism, GL never contradicts or revisions his work, and that I'm not a fan of the saga. You insinuate tremendous character flaws in those who don't find the movies as brilliant as you do, and then you claim victimhood when we object to the above characterizations.

    It's classic passive-aggression and laughably transparent.

    But I forget myself: you don't actually believe anything you post here.
  11. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It's the truth in my (and many others ;) ) opinion. Banning me won't change that. You should learn to deal with it as I have learned to deal with your ridiculously closed minded dismissals of my favorite series of films.

    P.S. I don't question anyone's fan status, and I never claimed Lucas never revised his work, but the rest of it sounds pretty dead on.


    Stone Jedi: Lucas has no idea what he is doing anymore.

    Go-Mer: He knows more about it than you do.

    Quixotic Sith: Go-Mer, you know you shouldn't be ridculing Stone, he is just stating his opinion. You know the rules of this thread, no gushing is allowed, in fact it is considered "trolling".

    Go-Mer: Sorry, my mistake. Have you ever noticed how much the cantina in ANH sucked?

    Oakesteve: Now Gomer, you have to leave the thread or be banned.

    Go-Mer: But I am bashing now like the rest of these ungrateful curs.

    (silence to signify the banning of Go-Mer)
  12. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    It's the truth in my (and many others ) opinion. Banning me won't change that. You should learn to deal with it as I have learned to deal with your ridiculously closed minded dismissals of my favorite series of films.

    P.S. I don't question anyone's fan status, and I never claimed Lucas never revised his work, but the rest of it sounds pretty dead on.


    I *have* learned to deal with it. It's a refreshing bit of certainty in an uncertain world. No matter how chaotic things get in real life (you know, the things that actually matter), I know that I have my unmoving rock, the strong foundation of my beliefs here in this forum. I can always depend upon you to be the same, always and forever. You are the wind beneath my wings, Go-Mer.

    And I can't tell you how much I get a kick out of you attacking us and playing the victim. Every time I put down my Lemony Snicket or turn off my Toy Story or Monster's, Inc. DVDs and read about how my inner child is dead, I chuckle. And when you then try to play the victim, I start to snicker uncontrollably. I wait for your posts, because they are simply so entertaining. Sometimes I make popcorn...

    I hope you never leave, Go-Mer. The more radical you get, the more moderate I seem in comparison. :D

    EDIT:

    Stone Jedi: Lucas has no idea what he is doing anymore.

    Go-Mer: He knows more about it than you do.

    Quixotic Sith: Go-Mer, you know you shouldn't be ridculing Stone, he is just stating his opinion. You know the rules of this thread, no gushing is allowed, in fact it is considered "trolling".

    Go-Mer: Sorry, my mistake. Have you ever noticed how much the cantina in ANH sucked?

    Oakesteve: Now Gomer, you have to leave the thread or be banned.

    Go-Mer: But I am bashing now like the rest of these ungrateful curs.

    (silence to signify the banning of Go-Mer)


    Now you know that isn't how I post. I would have tossed in "wanker" here and there.

    And I would have made fun of being able to see through the head of the bat alien in the cantina. As well as the similar aliens with different hands. And the wolfman. And the incredibly awkward praying mantis alien. And the Modal Nodes music not corresponding to any rhythym or sequence of the keys they were pressing.

    I'd even poke fun at the Miraculous Stuttery Taun-tauns in TESB, and cringe when Leia calls Han a "laserbrain" and Yoda's obvious puppetdom (in fact, I'd make all of the same kinds of critiques you find in Thumb Wars). And my compatriots would laugh along or disagree with me in good spirits, because they know that despite differences of opinion, they all have my respect, and I will never call into question their capacity for human enjoyment, their fandom, or any other ad hominems - which is the inherent difference between disagreement and trolling.
  13. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    LOL @ Quix and Go-mer!

    [face_laugh]

    Guys, don't ever change! :D
  14. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    By the way, Go-mer, you had asked me a series of questions on the last page which I intend on answering (work prevents me from doing so right now, but I will get back to them). I like the discussion going on, actually. It's quite a bit of fun! :)
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I am the victim when I am being banned for stating my opinion in your "open minded" thread. I can understand you not liking what I have to say, but it's not like my words prevent you from stating your opinion on the matter.
  16. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I am the victim when I am being banned for stating my opinion in your "open minded" thread. I can understand you not liking what I have to say, but it's not like my words prevent you from stating your opinion on the matter.

    [image=http://ed-3.com/darklords/emoticon_violin.gif]

    Your opinion on the *films* isn't what gets you in trouble. It's your opinions on the *posters* here that does.
  17. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I wish I had an even smaller animating violin for you.

    It's okay for you to say Lucas has no idea what he is doing, but when I suggest you don't know what you are talking about, you run to a mod.

    Poor poor critics, always being criticized unjustly.

    I say judge not, lest ye be judged.
  18. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Can't think of any good reason for Ben not to be Yoda's Padawan, either, but that's not how things worked out.

    Was never mentioned that Ben Was Yoda's padawan learner. Just that he instructed him. Maybe Yoda instructed Ben until he was ready for someone to take him on. Then Qui-Gon was assigned to be his teacher. Obi-Wan mentoins something of Yoda telling him to be mindful of the future in the beginning of TPM. So it shows Yoda instructed him at one point. Does not mean Ben was Yoda's padawan learner.
  19. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    The good reason to think Obi-Wan was not Yoda's Padawan is because he was Qui-Gon's Padawan.
  20. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    SRN: If he wasn't trained, he'd have nowhere to fall from.

    So you are saying it was impossible for Anakin (at least at the point they found him in TPM) to have ever been a great Jedi?


    The point is to take the blame for his own actions, even though he could blame it on everyone else around him.

    That's what makes him mature.


    I agree that it is mature for him to take a degree of credit, but not the whole weight of it. Anyway, the whole point of this arguement wasn't to say that Ben should have played the victim and blamed it all on Yoda, but rather to show how GL tells us one thing about the past in the OT, but doesn't show us that in the PT. He doesn't show Ben failing. So far the only mistake I see Ben make is listening to QGJ. I mean, maybe Ben will do something really stupid in A Big Explosion and we'll all say, "OK, it really is Ben's fault" but given what happened in AOTC and given that GL has said that it's Anakin's own fault, those we watch SW in numerical order are not going to have any idea Ben failed until he starts whining in ROJ.

    I know you think we're idiots for wanting to see in the PT what GL describes in the OT, but IMO, I think it's a fair request, at least for some of this stuff. I mean, look at what was outlined in the OT that we're not getting to see:
    1) Anakin being the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy. Noticed I'm quoting Ben here by saying starfighter pilot, not just pilot.
    2) Ben being "instructed" by Yoda.
    3) Ben screwing up with Anakin's training.
    4) Ben befriending Anakin.
    5) The clone wars -- well, maybe, or maybe not. We've seen a little bit, but I firmly believe that A Big Explosion will only have 10% Clone wars, if any in it.

    Given this, is it any wonder that I have no hope of seeing a General Kenobi or see Bail Organa have a meaningful role in the next film? It also wouldn't surprise me if we learn that Anakin really isn't Luke's father.


    Independence Day was a huge hit.

    ID4 was sixteen of the best sci-fi movies ever.


    He is taking the blame for HIS own action, which was to assume he could train Anakin just as well as Yoda.

    He did! Yoda trained Dooku, Dooku became a sith. Ben trained Anakin, Anakin became a sith.


    Also from where I sit, the prequels have been as well made or better than the classic trilogy.

    I'm glad you finally admitted to thinking the PT are superior to the OT. Now I understand why you don't feel the need to defend ROJ. Despite your enjoyment of it, you honestly don't think it's as good as TPM and/or AOTC, do you?


    That, I think, explains the Basher:Gusher ratio on this board.

    Well according to polls posted here (before your reg time), there are more gushers here than bashers.


    There's the OT trump card again. Why does everything concerning the PT have to be compared to the OT?

    Uhm, because they're both SW movies? I could see the logic if you said "why does the PT have to be compaired to LOTR?" (though I'll still compair the two, myself).


    Forgive but thats hardly going over much of the past is it. Thats hardly a good amount of time.

    There is also the scene on Dagobah, where they are compairing a younger Ben to Luke. Now I forget exactly how he said, was it said "was I any different when you taught me?" or did he just say "was I any different?" Either way, it's clear that this was also a reference to Ben's time with Yoda, since he knew that Yoda would know of his 'wreckless' nature first hand. There are also implications of Yoda as his master in the "Ben on the log" scene, although he doesn't directly reference it.


    You should use logic intead of looking for problems that you know can be simply fixed.

    Logic instead of fixing problems? I know someone you may loose their job for taking that attitude, so don't try it on your boss. People rather you just fix things instead of explaining it away.


    I'd love to call you an idiot but its flaming.

    Wow, flaming. So, instead of m
  21. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Go-Mer (before): No, it is just that we have different findings based on the same criteria.

    TadjiStation: Fair enough.

    Go-Mer (before): The prequels so far have had acting that I would say is at the very least on par with the classic trilogy.

    TadjiStation: I'd say the OT eeks out ahead. We can agree to disagree.

    GoMer: So would you say it's a close one?


    I'd say they're fairly close. Granted, I don't think I've ever stated that the acting in the OT was great, just that it was generally stronger than the PT.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Go-Mer (before): Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGreggor, Hayden Christiensen and Natalie Portman all gave great performances that made up for Jake Lloyd, the guy who played Ric Olie, and the guy who played Panaka.

    TadjiStation: It's hard to go wrong with Ian McDiarmid. He's extremely natural, and probably doesn't require much direction. As for the rest, I just can't swallow their performances. Natalie Portman's performance was poor, by her own admission, and it's not her fault. She's a very good actress, but most likely requires a director to engage her into giving a performance. She's a bit freer and more natural in AOTC (thank God), but still looks like she's really searching for the larger meaning behind all of what she's talking about. Hayden Christiansen and Ewan McGregor were okay. Serviceable, but not great.

    GoMer: I thought Natalie Portman played Queen Amidala very well. What would your complaints be about her acting? What do you mean "by her own admission"? Do you expect her to go on and on about how great she was?


    I understand that her character was supposed to be rigid and tough. She's the Queen, after all. However, her delivery mistakes monotone for rigid and downtrodden for tough. To me, she looked as if she had NO idea of what she was saying or to whom she was speaking. This is a standard complaint that I've heard from many actors who are working in a largely digital realm. With no one to interact with, the performance can suffer, as was the case here. Her performance changes in AOTC, not only because of her character shift, but because she has Hayden Christiansen to bounce off of for a good deal of the film.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Go-Mer (before): When you say you aren't allowed to feel the emotion between Padme and Anakin, I suggest you aren't allowing yourself to feel it, because I had no problem with it myself.

    TadjiStation: I'm not sure how to answer that except to say: "No. That's not it at all" Were you to know me personally, Gomer, you would know that I get quite emotional at movies. Yes, LOTR make me misty after Gandalf's death. Yes, I cried during Titanic. That's because these movies made me feel certain things. They conveyed emotions clearly, and yes even manipulatively (but that's what movies essentially do anyway). SW has never effected me in this fashion. It should also be noted that I'm a lover of film in general, and, from a critical standpoint, that's quite a bit different than being a SW fan.

    GoMer: Well, if SW never caused you to react emotionally before, I am not sure why you would expect it to now. I also got emotional with those movies you mentioned, and also felt quite a bit during the prequels. This whole saga strikes a deeper chord with me than most other films ever have.


    I'd agree with you in theory: the PT should havestruck a deeper chord with me because the tragic elements of the SW saga are being explored. Again, the ability to convey these things rests almost entirely on believable performances, which I don't think we see in the PT. They are looser, to be sure, but they still lack a certain emotional resonance that i think they should have had to make it work. Chalk it up to corny dialogue and lower than average direction. Again, I've seen these actors work under different directors, and they're very cap
  22. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    can we rename this place "cuckoo land"?
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Only if it will make you feel more welcome here.
  24. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    I can see I have much work to do here... [face_mischief]

    Menlu wrote: "When a movie comes out, it is neutral. Then when a "Basher" responds to it, it will be negative. Likewise, when a "Gusher" responds to it, it will be positive. Thus, it all comes down to perception.
    How did you perceive the film? If you perceived it negatively, then the film was "bad" and flopped. If, however, you perceived it positively, then the film was "good," and it was a hit."


    That is, at best, a huge oversimplification. By that line of reasoning, there is no such thing as a bad work of art (or a good one, for that matter). They are all "neutral". Are the scribblings of an art-school wannabe equal to the works of DaVinci? Is the latest N'Sync album no different than the White Album? Is "Ernest Goes To Jail" every bit as good as "Casablanca"? In short, is every artistic work the absolute equal of every other, waiting only for the audience to "perceive" it appropriately and assign a value to it? Are there no objective standards by which to judge a work's merit available to us at all? More to the point, do you actually believe that?

    And: "There's the OT trump card again. Why does everything concerning the PT have to be compared to the OT? Why can't one judge the PT on its own merit?"

    Because the films are connected. It attempts to tell a single coherent story. If you feel that the OT is a "trump card" that it is unfair to stack the PT up against, well then that kind of speaks for itself doesn't it?


    Go-Mer-Tonic wrote: " The prequels so far have had acting that I would say is at the very least on par with the classic trilogy."

    And I would say that it does not. The actors in the OT (particularly ANH and ESB) were engaging, evocative, skillful and fun to watch. It wasn't Oscar-caliber stuff, but it was miles ahead of what we have for the most part gotten from the PT.

    "Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGreggor, Hayden Christiensen and Natalie Portman all gave great performances that made up for Jake Lloyd, the guy who played Ric Olie, and the guy who played Panaka."

    Ian McDiarmid is indeed very good. I thought Ewan MacGregor was great in AOTC (he was in TPM? Where was that again?). Hayden Christiensen was a mixed bag. In some scenes he was really good and in others he was absolutely terrible. So when he bounces back and forth like a ping-pong ball I'd have to rate his overall performance as a "so-so". How you can declare Natalie Portman's performances as "great" is beyond me, but it's your opinion. I found her wooden, stilted, bored and boring. She failed to engage me with her character in any way. I couldn't care less if we never see Padme again.

    Liam Neeson? Now here's a special case. I can say without any exaggeration on my part whatsoever that Liam Neeson is a truly brilliant actor. Yet in TPM he delivers his most lukewarm performance since "Darkman". To me it speaks volumes about George Lucas' skills at directing actors when Irvin Kershner was able to elicit more compelling performances out of a coked-out Carrie Fisher and a B-grade actor like Mark Hamill than Lucas is able to get out of Liam Neeson.

    "When you get right down to it, most of the backlash that pretends to be holding the prequels up to the same standard as the classic trilogy is really holding it up to a higher standard that even the classic trilogy wouldn't pass."

    If that's what your choosing to believe.

    "Call it losing your inner child, call it growing more cynical, call it being better versed in the way movies are made, but the bottom line is we didn't get hung up on every little thing in the classic trilogy and so we accepted it into our hearts and never asked it to leave. Since then, our "better taste" went on duty, and now some of us can't get into a new SW movie if our very lives depended on it."

    Wrong. If anyone who knows me in real life heard you suggesting that I've lost my inner child, they'd laugh in your face. I watch cartoons. I read comic books. I play video games. I buy
  25. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
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