Lucas and his right to make TPM (and the rest) his way.

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Go-Mer-Tonic, Sep 10, 2002.

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  1. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Dr E: "Everything about the prequel trilogy so far sucks... PERIOD. And we have open minds."

    Go-Mer: "Wait, no it doesn't"

    Darth Stryphe: "TROLL!!!!!"

    Go-Mer: "But"

    PM From Oakesteve: "Come on Gomer, you don't want to be banned for existing in a thread you aren't wanted in do you?"



    Go-Mer, for the record, I didn't PM Oakes about you, not in a long time. However, it's off-topic to gush in the Basher's Sanctuary. I think you will note that bashers don't go bashing in the TPMDF.
  2. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Better yet, Stryphe, Go-Mer doesn't seem to know that I'm both the Consiglieri of the Basher's Sanctuary because I post about things I dislike there, as well as a Squadron Leader in the TPMDF because I post about things that I like there.

    Wait...

    Can that be right? I forgot that I'm close-minded about these films, and that I'm bitter, cynical, and have lost my inner child.
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I didn't know, and I didn't care. I am fundamentally against click threads.
  4. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I didn't know, and I didn't care. I am fundamentally against click threads.

    Well, it's just nice to know that you're keeping an open mind about these things...
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    What am I not considering in your opinion?

    My point is that if it weren't for the two castles you guys have built, this wouldn't be such a polorized fanbase. Having click threads like that encourages an "us vs them" mentality for everyone who isn't lucky enough to be welcome in both places.
  6. AgentCoop Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    Question: Do you go into the TPMDF and criticize them for "polarizing the fanbase" the way you do with the Basher's Sanctuary?
  7. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    What am I not considering in your opinion?

    That critical reflection yields both fundamental strengths that shouldn't be glossed over and fundamental weaknesses that shouldn't be ignored or rationalized away.

    My point is that if it weren't for the two castles you guys hav built, this wouldn't be such a polorized fanbase.

    Having click threads like that encourages an "us vs them" mentality for everyone who isn't lucky enough to be welcome in both places.


    It is the respective Sanctuaries that have made this forum palatable to most of its regulars. Without the Sanctuaries, we would have the chaos and bitterness rampant in the AOTC forum. The Sanctuaries provide common meeting grounds for those who wish to share their opinions without having to respond to flaming attacks made by their fellow forum patrons.

    Really, Go-Mer, you're getting your panties in a twist because of two threads out of 422? 0.47% of the forum makes you this anti-social?
  8. RogueSith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 3
    "I watch cartoons. I read comic books. I play video games. I buy toys. My inner child is fine, thanks."


    If it wasn't for the whole David Lynch thing, I'd say AgentCoop could be my escaped clone. Or I could be his... anyway, the nostalgia and expectations excuses are just that - excuses. Smokey and the Bandit was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid, but I'm not blowing time discussing the motivations of Sheriff Buford T. Justice.
    And people had huge expectations for LOTR and that seems to have gone over pretty well with fans and critics alike.

    What you can't understand is how much I want to love the PT like you do Go-Mer, how much I wish I could just throw on the blinders and be blissfully entertained by whatever GL tosses on the screen, but I can't. I can't make myself suspend disbelief. With the OT I don't have to, and that's exactly what makes movies like ANH & ESB so special.

    "Why does everything concerning the PT have to be compared to the OT? Why can't one judge the PT on its own merit?"

    Here's a little fact that the PT gushers keep missing - the only reason these movies(the PT) get the attention they do, the only reason they were made - is because of the OT's popularity. The PT is riding the success of the OT and milking the name "STAR WARS", the name the OT made household, for everything it's worth.

    And as for the quality of the PT against that of the OT, just compare Han/Leia in ESB to Anakin/Padme in AOTC. If you can honestly say those two romantics relationships are anywhere near each other in quality, then you should just get a "GUSHER" tatoo on your forehead.

    "I am fundamentally against click threads."

    [face_laugh] "click threads"? I'm sorry Go-Mer, I just realized something about you and where you're coming from. You're absolutely right... about whatever.


    Except I think you meant "clique".
  9. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If you look on the first page of the defense force, you will see that I laid down my opinion against any such threads.

    I could understand you saying you "can't" enjoy the prequels if there was anything about them that was in any way worse than what went down in the classic trilogy. You act like you have no choice, and that's a bunch of bull. You chose not to care about what Lucas is trying to do, and instead expect him to appease your individual taste.

    It is only your stubborness that keeps you from actually seeing how great these prequels are so far. You are so entrenched in the idea that you know how SW should go, that you won't even entertain what Lucas is doing.

    You guys act like there are contradictions where there are none, you act like the acting in the classic trilogy was oscar worthy across the board, and you act like back then the dialogue was the epitome of "well written".

    I am not the one with the blinders on, you are.

    -edit Actually, I was on the first page of the original defense force, not the one that exists today.
  10. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    If you look on the first page of the defense force, you will see that I laid down my opinion against any such threads.

    I could understand you saying you "can't" enjoy the prequels if there was anything about them that was in any way worse than what went down in the classic trilogy. You act like you have no choice, and that's a bunch of bull. You chose not to care about what Lucas is trying to do, and instead expect him to appease your individual taste.

    It is only your stubborness that keeps you from actually seeing how great these prequels are so far. You are so entrenched in the idea that you know how SW should go, that you won't even entertain what Lucas is doing.

    You guys act like there are contradictions where there are none, you act like the acting in the classic trilogy was oscar worthy across the board, and you act like back then the dialogue was the epitome of "well written".

    I am not the one with the blinders on, you are.


    [face_laugh]

    //wipes tear from my eye

    Good one, Go-Mer. I've accepted the flaws of the OT, and I had no expectations of the PT beyond wanting films that measured up to the OT. I wanted something new and different, which we got. But I didn't find the overall quality to be the same. The *quality* of the flaws is the same (cheesy effects, bad acting, editing, etc.), it's the *quantity* of these flaws that is the problem.

    A few months ago you suggested that we should simply roll with these flaws, which we did. The ebb and flow of the OT films had peaks and nadirs, high and low tides. But overall, "dealing with" the flaws in the OT films was a peaceful trip to the beach. Then the PT tsunami rolled in and wiped out the village.

    EDIT: Added some mark-up for clarity.
  11. AgentCoop Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    "If you look on the first page of the defense force, you will see that I laid down my opinion against any such threads."

    So you posted on one page of the TPMDF, yet you post on nearly every page of the Basher's Sanctuary. A very balanced approach.

    I have more I'd like to add, unfortunately real life is calling.
  12. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Good point Coop. It is obvious that Go-Mer isn't really against the "two-castles". He is against the one castle that bugs him.
    Oh and Menlu, I told you to shut-up in the Sanctuary because your comments had degenerated to the level of a Go-Mer post. That is the equivalent of trolling.
  13. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "Good point Coop. It is obvious that Go-Mer isn't really against the "two-castles". He is against the one castle that bugs him."

    but that seems to be the nature of all "gushing" lately. if you attack lucas, you are attacked, personally. the total blind bias and inability to even let a contrary opinion register on the brain of some is ridiculous.

    the best example of this is when ebert gave TPM a good review. he was celebrated as a great critic. when he dissed AOTC all of a sudden he is a fat, bloated, know-nothing. now i see connie chung is a "cold hearted bitch" who "got what she deserved".

    i would laugh at it more easily if it wasnt so sad to watch.
  14. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I could understand you saying you "can't" enjoy the prequels if there was anything about them that was in any way worse than what went down in the classic trilogy.

    As you said, we judge these movies by different standards. By the standards of what I define quality movie making, the PTs do fall short.


    You act like you have no choice, and that's a bunch of bull.

    So, Go-Mer, have you choosen to start being a fan of Alien 3 yet?


    It is only your stubborness that keeps you from actually seeing how great these prequels are so far.

    Why are you being so stuborn about Alien 3, why not embrace its greatness?


    and you act like back then the dialogue was the epitome of "well written".

    You bash OT dialog?


  15. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Stryphe-

    He doesn't actually believe any of this. It's a means of getting attention.
  16. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    You mean "clique" threads, right?
  17. Emos-Edud Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    Quixotic_Sith,

    Then why give him the attention? Leave Go-Mer alone and then he'll have no one to complain to. Maybe you won't because then you'd have no one to complain about.

    RogueSith,

    What does it say about where the "bashers" are "coming from" that it took a few posts before one commented on the incorrect spelling of clique? I don't think one mistake in a series of otherwise well-written posts negates the value of what Go-Mer has said, whether or not you agree with the man. I hope to find impeccable spelling in your posts from now on.

    Keep up the good fight, Go-Mer. Contrary opinion is valuable.
  18. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Quixotic_Sith,

    Then why give him the attention? Leave Go-Mer alone and then he'll have no one to complain to. Maybe you won't because then you'd have no one to complain about.

    What does it say about where the "bashers" are "coming from" that it took a few posts before one commented on the incorrect spelling of clique? I don't think one mistake in a series of otherwise well-written posts negates the value of what Go-Mer has said, whether or not you agree with the man.

    Keep up the good fight, Go-Mer. Contrary opinion is valuable.


    Welcome to the TPM forum, Emos-Edud. Unless you're a sock, you're a new face around here (at least in the more popular threads in this forum).

    I only recently concluded that Go-Mer can't possibly believe what he posts, ergo, I would have had no reason to deprive him of the attention he desires until now. If you review my post history, you'll find that I do a lot more than complain about Go-Mer; I've thoroughly enjoyed the spirited conversations here and have made friends throughout the spectrum of the TPM forum. Responding to Go-Mer simply happens, and provides a little catharsis in an otherwise hectic schedule. As I said earlier, Go-Mer is the wind beneath my wings, and has often reinvigorated my enthusiasm for posting here.

    I'm especially drawn to this line in your post: Contrary opinion is valuable. Such is the underlying assumption of those of us labelled "bashers," and, ironically enough, is antithetical to the precepts of many (though clearly not most) of those with whom we disagree. While contrary opinions are valuable, it is evident that there is a rather vocal minority who would claim otherwise, including, evidently, Mr. Tonic, who would prefer not to see our dissenting opinions posted here.

    Enjoy your time here, and avoid those ad hominems that seem to run rampant in less civil forums like AOTC.
  19. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    Emos-Edud spelled backwards is some-dude!

    actually, technically it's dude-some.
  20. Emos-Edud Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    And DrEvazan is nazavErd backwards.

    To paraphrase another doctor from another "Star" franchise, "Your powers of deduction are simply stunning."

    It's not like you're dealing with Mr. Mxyzptlk.
  21. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    hmmm. Looks like we have another live one.
  22. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I think it's time to "click" to another thread!
  23. Emos-Edud Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    That "joke" was almost as "Xtreme" as a Mountain Dew tv-spot.
  24. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Mr. Mxyzptlk is mentioned!!!

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    Man, one day I'm gonna collect all the pop-culture references that crop up from all the gusher-basher wars.

    Keep up the good fight, Go-Mer

    Well hey, he's welcomed to 'keep up the good fight' in the numerous debate threads. That's what I do. I don't just suddenly bash in the TPM Defense Force. I respect those people and their thread.

    Nothing compels you to press the 'Post' button. Nothing compels you to look into the Sanctuary when you know all the opinion there contradicts yours. And nothing compels you to make comments about people's personalities and sarcastic comments like "Oh, is this place still here?" What? "Three years and you're still bashing?" and my personal favourite, the one about having the fun sucked out or something like that. NO one is forcing you to peek into the Sanctuary.

    Then I'd question why people take stuff about a movie so personally, like it's religion, but hey, that question will remained unanswered...

    *cue 'X-Files' theme*
  25. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    i just clicked over to the end of this thread, so i'm sure this has been said several times. but i'm not sure anyone disputes the fact taht lucas has the RIGHT to do whatever he wants with star wars. he has the RIGHT to make episode 3 a busby-berkely musical if he wants, does that mean it would be the best decision?
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