Lucas and his right to make TPM (and the rest) his way.

"Then again, most GL naysayers and SW bashers just like to hear themselves talk."




And like most gushers, you take this to a personal level that is not nescessary. Bad form, Menlu, all too typical, but still - bad form.



BTW, I'm not a basher. I like TPM, but I'm not blinded by allegiance to a man I've never even met.(I should probably add this to my sig., I have to repeat enough)

 

Then what exactly are you blinded by?

Quix, did you know that Lucas tried to get Frank Durabont to help polish TPM? Did you know that Carrie Fisher was an uncredited script doctor? Did you know he gave the script to Lawrence Kasdan (the proclaimed savior of SW dialogue) to read over for suggestions?

Frank couldn't do it because SW is a non guild production, and Lawrence told Lucas to NOT CHANGE A THING. Speilberg saw a rough cut of TPM and suggested Lucas add that scene that showed Anakin wondering where Padme is before he goes to the council and that bit with Palpatine where he says he will be watching Anakin's career with great interest.

So again, I ask you where you get the idea that George doesn't seek out critical feedback.

 

I have to admit, Go-Mer is starting to grow on me.

 

"He [George Lucas] controls the "Star Wars" merchandising -- "I didn't want someone using the name 'Star Wars' on a piece of junk," he once said."

I guess the Episode II cereal or the Jedi Fruit Rolls don't sully the name of "Star Wars" with cheap merchandising ploys.

 

Hey, those are quality items.

 

Jedi fruit roll... *drooling Homer noise*

 

And do *not* forget the TPM Jar-Jar Binks Taco Bell cup covers. They truly are what the SW universe are about...



EDIT: I know that they taught me a great lesson about tolerating bean/beef/gelatinous glop-induced flatulence, truly a central theme of TPM...

 

Duck season!!!

 

Rabbit season!

 

Hey, I have that cup cover. It's in my house....somewhere. Maybe my dog used it as a chew-toy or fire hydrant?

EDIT: Anyone else notice the lack of SW merchandise moved for Clones? I have two Wal-Marts in my town and they're both stuffed with a half-aisle of stuff. Nothing seems to be moving at all except for the 4" figs.

 

"but I'm not blinded by allegiance to a man I've never even met."

Nor am I, but I am not so egotistical that I feel GL owes me something that he clearly does not want to give me.
I am a creative writer. If I write an on-going series that America grasps on to like they have SW, does that mean it is my duty to shape my vision of my work according to the whims of the public? Hell no! I write what I please. If you do not like it, tough. That's the great thing about this country, you have these little things called rights. You don't like what I am trying to sell you, well it's your right not to buy it.

"And like most gushers, you take this to a personal level that is not nescessary."

I am not a gusher. I think TPM has its flaws like any other movie, and I will gladly point them out.
Don't mean to sound like a troll, but from reading this board over the past year, I just think gushers have their heads screwed on tighter than bashers.

 

Alright, allow me to bring up the Jar-Jar candy toung item so we can get on with the interesting points about Lucas seeking criticism I brought up.

Did you know that there was a religious website that called it an obscene sex toy?

 

Menlu - Opinion noted. Now please define "basher" and "gusher" and demonstrate that these are not simply subjective assignations.

EDIT: Yep, Go-Mer, I remember reading about that.

Menlu, Go-Mer, you both need to realize that no one wants Lucas to follow the "whims" of popular culture. Quite the contrary - that gives us N'Sync Jedi, among other heresies. The issue is not being led by public whim, but engaging in a dialogue with the public. Being open to criticism makes one think more about the work/argument/piece that one is putting forward. What we want is a little feedback to keep George consistent with the other films. It's not whining about what we didn't get, or whining because the films didn't meet our expectations. We're concerned about the course the saga is taking in precisely the same manner as I was concerned about the direction the Steeler's special teams took last season.

Lucas isn't simply remaining a stauch individualist, flouting the whims and fancy of popular opinion. He's gone beyond that, and by exercising much more creative control than he did in the past, he's trumping any legitimate concerns with the exceptionally narcissistic statement of "These are my movies." All we are looking to do is return the saga to the dialogic approach evidenced in the OT - he maintains overall artistic control, but he uses individuals who are stronger than he is for specific roles (writing, direction, etc.).

His unilateral approach has divided the fanbase; he can now fiat, for good or for ill, anything in the SW universe. That isn't necessarily a good thing.

I'm an artist (a photographer) as well as a graduate student. In both, I need feedback and constructive criticism to realize fully my self-expression and/or intellectual pursuits. Critical feedback could harm my efforts, true, but it could also bring them to new heights. Lucas simply wants to ignore *any* popular feedback, which is intellectually dishonest and artistically foolish. Rather than a work that is as good as it could possibly be (by being open to feedback and distinguishing good criticism from bad), we are given pure self-expression, which for many has been muddy, incoherent, and poorly executed. It's a little like turning in a manuscript without any proofreading. While it may make sense to you, it might not make sense to someone else.

 

Sex toy - No. Obscene - Yes.

 

"Did you know that there was a religious website that called it an obscene sex toy?"

I've seen that site. It's so utterly stocked to the brim with bull droppings that it actually made me want to *shudder* spring to Jar-Jar's defense.

 

Go-Mer, why did you go back up to the top of the page and insert a couple of paragraphs to your post? Are we supposed to go back over all your posts to keep up with the convo?


BTW, your facts are wrong on Kasdan. GL didn't give him a copy to read over, and then he said don't change a thing. According to Kasdan GL asked him if he wanted to write the movie two weeks before they started shooting. Kasdan declined.

"He asked me to write that movie and work on this trilogy, and I said 'no' for various reasons. Basically I thought he should do it. Because what happened on EMPIRE and JEDI was that between me and Irvin Kershner who directed EMPIRE and Richard Marquand who directed JEDI, George's relationship to the movies had gotten one step back. I thought he should take responsibility and make exactly the movie he wanted to make, and that's exactly what he did.'

I'm not bashing GL here, but get the facts straight.

 

This was said after he READ THE SCRIPT AND TOLD HIM NOT TO CHANGE A THING.

And it took me a while to edit that post but I did that before moving on to the next post I made.

And when exactly did Lucas open up critique from the "public"? On the classic trilogy he collaborated with his fellow peers. Not the public.

Believe it or not he did the same on the prequels. It is an incorrect assumption that he doesn't seek out critical advice. He even mentions how hard it is to separate yourself from your own work to be able to critique it objectively in the beginning documentary.

 

I've always had the opinion that Lucas should do Star Wars the way he wants, how he wants, and not have to take any advice or flak from the fans for it. If you don't like it, then don't watch it, but for god's sake, don't complain and say trillions of times over how you could have made it better. I guess it stems from the fact that George's attitude is similar to mine when it comes to my art, and my creations.

 

"And when exactly did Lucas open up critique from the "public"?"

When he started selling tickets. Like every other filmmaker. He doesn't have to like it, but if he doesn't want to hear it, then he shouldn't put a product out there for public consumption.

 

Sure people bitched about the classic trilogy, I am wondering when Lucas EVER listened to those people.

 

I guess it stems from the fact that George's attitude is similar to mine when it comes to my art, and my creations.

Every photo critique I have attended and taken part in has yielded information that I felt has been of benefit to me in the production of my art, whether in the composition, framing, subject, film, perspective, aperture, tone, paper, etc.. Publishing my work locally puts me up for public criticism with the same effect. My experience with art and my creations leads me to quite different conclusions than you.

And Go-Mer, while Lucas does get some feedback, the quality of that feedback differs greatly between the OT and the PT, as well as the filming environment. In the eyes of many people, who reflect on the work in artistic and literary terms, Lucas did better work when he couldn't "fully realize his creative vision."

 

If he doesn't want to hear it, then he can just ignore it, like I do. The way I made it is the way I wanted it made, and the final product is exactly what I wanted. Otherwise, I wouldn't have made it that way.

 

"This was said after he READ THE SCRIPT AND TOLD HIM NOT TO CHANGE A THING.'


I'm not trying to start a fight with you Go-Mer, but that isn't true. Kasdan said he was speaking at some event that George was also at, and they got to talking. GL asked him if he would like to write TPM. Kasdan said No. Through the entire exchange Kasdan never saw a script. If he did at all it was later.(Actually he said "Don't you start shooting in two weeks?" To which GL said "Yeah?" [face_shocked] I admit I'm half appalled by that answer, but half impressed)

 

I can't seem to find the quote from him that I remember, perhaps you are right about Kasdan's actual quote. That of course doesn't change the fact that Lucas saught his expertise out, which is my point.

Here is that article you were quoting from, and I think it is fairly obvious what Kasdan thinks of TPM.

---

"My opinion is that the right thing happened, which is that George made exactly the movie he wanted to make," Kasdan says. "And he has some vision of these three movies, and at the end of these three movies you'll be able to look back and say 'Well, I still don't think he was right about the first one,' or you'll say 'oh, I get it.' He asked me to write that movie and work on this trilogy, and I said 'no' for various reasons. Basically I thought he should do it. Because what happened on EMPIRE and JEDI was that between me and Irvin Kershner who directed EMPIRE and Richard Marquand who directed JEDI, George's relationship to the movies had gotten one step back. I thought he should take responsibility and make exactly the movie he wanted to make, and that's exactly what he did. And whatever people say about PHANTOM MENACE, you can't do business like that unless someone likes the movie. And there's never been a movie with a worse reception from the media that I can remember. And it's now done $400 million something in business in the United States, and it'll be a billion dollars worldwide. This is a case where, no matter what you thought personally of the movie, the media was waiting to kill it. And they couldn't even kill it." -Lawrence Kasdan[hr][/blockquote]