ST Lucas: Force Awakens not about Skywalker grandchildren

Well, you know, I'm coming from the other direction. I embraced the PT at release and could easily point out the depth inherent in those movies. And I still can. But at the time I turned a blind eye to their fundamental flaws. And really, if the fundamentals are lacking, what's really left?

I'm a big fan of Howard Hawks' rule of thumb: "Three great scenes and no bad ones."

Great, memorable scenes or moments:

ANH: Opening shot, cantina, "Use the Force!"
ESB: Yoda raising the X-wing, "I love you", "I am your father"
ROTJ: Jabba's first appearance, speeder bike chase, unmasking Vader (this film just isn't as iconic)
TPM: Duel of the Fates (same problem here)
AOTC: Yoda vs. Dooku (now I'm really reaching)
ROTS: Mustafar

It's really only ANH that has left an indelible mark in the public consciousness, but that's to be expected. ESB is known largely for its twist, ROTJ is known for Jabba and the Ewoks and TPM (on its good days) is known for Duel of the Fates. AOTC and ROTS aren't even in the running.

And then you get to the "at least one bad scene" part...

ANH: ???
ESB: ???
ROTJ: "Could you tell Luke? Is that who you could tell?"
TPM: Any scene centring on Jake Lloyd, but particularly Anakin's triumph by accident
AOTC: "I hate sand..."
ROTS: Anakin's sudden turn to the Dark Side

Seriously, there is very little room for reassessment. AOTC in particular has very little to recommend it; TPM and ROTS are at best the equals of ROTJ. I just don't see a "level of quality" that could sustain critical analysis.

 

Have you even read the Harry Potter series? Harry Potter fan here though. There is a world of difference between Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone (1st book) and Deathly Hallows (last book). DH is more mature than the former ever was. We learn a lot of life lessons that will stick with us for life.

 

Kathleen Kennedy's comments today that the ST will be about "Family Inheritance" would seem to settle this debate once and for all, I'd say.

 

ROTJ is an iconic film in the sense that its opening was a big moment for that generation. It's more the release itself than the actual scenes in the film, although there are certainly plenty of iconic images from the film. I feel like I've heard more "I lined up for 48 hours to see ROTJ" stories from people than for any other movie both in real life and reference in pop culture. Even now, it's still being used as the reference for the year 1983 in the new X-Men movie.

Remember those Vh1 series, I Love the 80s, 90s, etc. All three OT films were talked about at length in the first editions of those shows. I don't think any of the PT films made their 2000s episodes and they've done 2 editions already.

 

First, "Safe"? Back then Fantasy movies were known for being BO-poison and making three films at the same time was a huge gamble. Also, you have three films, the first two have no ending, there is no "Last time on LotR" to get new viewers up to speed. The writers/director assumed that everyone seeing the second/third film have seen the other ones. The LotR book was widely considered to be un-filmable.
Had the first film done badly, it would have meant the end of New Line and possibly PJ.

Dark Knight, Safe? A film where the hero pretty much looses everything. The women he loves is killed by the bad guy, the person he had hoped to take over and be Gotham's "White Knight" is driven mad by the same bad guy, does some bad things and the hero has to kill him. And to top it off, he has to take the blame for crimes he didn't commit. Hardly a "safe" and "happy" ending.

To me, that film was not just a great comic book film, it was a great film period.

As for holding up well, I very much disagree, I have seen all those films many times and still enjoy them. Less so with the PT. I did see two of them quite recently with my cousin's kids. They are not bad but I wouldn't call them great either.

I would say that Lucas did play it safe with some aspects of the PT. I think that TPM was Lucas at his most creative and daring. This film felt like he had the most clear vision for it. It still had problems but I didn't feel that Lucas compromised here.
With AotC I did get a feeling that Lucas changed stuff due to the complaints he got on TPM and RotS felt rushed. That Lucas had too many plot points to cover and sometimes it felt like ticking of boxes on a check list.
This is just my thought but I believe that if Lucas had written all three PT at once and made them all at once, then AotC and RotS would have been quite different.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

But the thing is, you don't have to be in his family to have that power. It's possible, however unlikely, that we are being misled here.

 

Settling a debate? On the Internet? *grabs popcorn*

 

If you think this series has nothing to do with the skywalker family you are in some serious denial. Lol

 

Why even bother with using that quote if the force user isn't related to Luke? Bringing it up makes people assume there is a family relation somewhere.

 

I think it was obvious that, that was the point the trailer was making. There IS a family connection. They even show Vader for christs sakes. lol

 

LUKE: I understand.

 

Those lines are rather awkward for someone speaking to a son or daughter. It doesn't help that "You have that power, too" is said with the screen black, so the context is ambiguous..The only thing we know is that it is Luke's voice. It could just as easily come from a part in the movie where Skywalker is addressing his jedi students. It seems to be a device used to draw in the audience.....a la the opening of a shakespearean play. The first time I saw it I thought he was talking to me, and I was thinking "OH NO! This is sooooooo Disney!"

 

But why use them if they don't have meaning for the new movie?

 

Watching the existing movies is now a mandatory prerequisite before posting here.

He didn't say they have no meaning for the new movie.

 

"And then you get to the "at least one bad scene" part..."

ANH: All whiny Luke scenes
ESB: All whiny C3PO scenes
ROTJ: "Could you tell Luke? Is that who you could tell?"
TPM: Any scene centring on Jake Lloyd, but particularly Anakin's triumph by accident
AOTC: "I hate sand..."
ROTS: Anakin's sudden turn to the Dark Side

 

I think the way to go is that Rey is the daughter of Luke, and Kylo Ren is the son of Han and Leia. Finn gets caught up in the middle of it and maybe Kylo attempts to turn Rey, with Finn trying to keep his friend (potential lover?) on the light path.

 

Even though that line isn't in TFA, we may discover that there aren't any Skywalker or Solo children in the ST. A lot of things could've happened.

 

A good point. The cut to black during the YOU part made me think the dialogue was directed more towards the audience than any onscreen character. Wouldn't be surprised if that line doesn't make it into the film at all.

 

Maybe Luke manipulated the midichlorians of some Jakku slave woman to fill her womb with baby.

 

I've been a Tolkien aficionado since I was 9. I love his books. All of them. Even the ones that read like the early chapters of the New Testament (The Silmarillion...though it was published by his son). In that context, I couldn't help but be disappointed in Jackson's LOTR films. To me, they lacked depth, and they dripped with mawkish sentimentality and kitsch aesthetics.

That said, I will fight anyone that claims they were safe. First of all, they were a huge gamble financially. New Line greenlit three very expensive fantasy films (that had a poor track record until then) and risked its future. Secondly, they were not safe on an artistic level either. Despite my issues with Jackson's OTT style, he has a very unique vision and look. He's an auteur, basically.

Ron Howard films are safe. Michael Bay films are safe. Sam Raimi films are safe.

Peter Jackson doesn't belong in that crowd.

 

I think you have to add the LOTR films to that. They arguably have impacted popular culture in a more profound way than the Potter films.

But your point stands. The PT only comes close if one compares it's notoriety to the appeal of the HP and LOTR films.

 

That's really rapey when you think about it.