Lucas' Original Concept-- Palpatine as Anakin's Father

Darth-Bone posted on 4/14/05 12:38pm

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You have explained nothing.

And how are you going to watch me "twist in my seat" ??

p.s. Albert - I am not questioning this expecting a twist, only pointing out a sever continuity error.


[hr][/blockquote]

Okay Bone, let's try it this way.

Does Mace defeat Palpatine?

Does Yoda defeat Palpatine?

 

Yoda and Mace are powerful, but they are not powerful enough to kill Sidious. Mace is brought down because of Anakin's betrayal. Yoda cannot kill him, because he realizes that this is a fight he cannot win. Not if he wishes to live with his newfound knowledge of the Force. This insight is what ultimately causes Yoda to leave.

 

I wonder if yoda will get a "Run Yoda Run" ala ANH
Run Luke Run?

Not in the Novel but....

 

I can't believe Lucas even considered this. Even with this being cut I'm really beginning to have serious doubts about the quality of ep3.

 

The possibility of Anakin having a biological / pragmatic conception should at least be mentioned.

No one can prove or verify what happened the night Jesus came into being.

We don't know. Was it this, was it that?

We don't have a definitive answer. And maybe it's better that we don't.

 

Darth_Howell_III posted on 4/14/05 2:01pm

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The possibility of Anakin having a biological / pragmatic conception should at least be mentioned.

No one can prove or verify what happened the night Jesus came into being.

[i]We don't know.[/i] Was it this, was it that?

We don't have a definitive answer. And maybe it's better that we don't.
[hr][/blockquote]

We do. From Lucas. "The Force Itself created Anakin".

 

Remember those EU books that said Palps had a son?


Those were retarded.

 

I can't believe Lucas even considered this. Even with this being cut I'm really beginning to have serious doubts about the quality of ep3.

I share this sentiment, though i'm more concerned for Lucas's sanity than i am for the movie. Some of his wackier ideas as expressed in the PT and new DVD set of the OT make me pretty happy he wasn't able to make the movie he wasnted to in the first place, i think i like the "half finsihed version" more than i would his "pure vission".

 

I like it the way it is. Anakin's conception is the least important factor in his character arc which is why, in the narrative, it is vague.

It's clear, or at least heavily implied, that Anakin was concieved by the Force though we never got the full story from Shmi and the Jedi aren't able to wrap their minds around it.

What matters is that Anakin had a purpose in life, to bring balance to the Force, and he strayed from that purpose causing (or enabling) 25 years of darkness, and that the only way to truly fulfill his destiny involved dying and ending the madness.

 

For my part, I am happy George thought about this concept, even if it was only for 5 minutes

Some of us wanted to see an addition to Shmi's explanation, in a more or less logical way. Plus, who never suspected Palpatine to have something deeper to do with the Skywalker family? But at the same time, we cannot fully believe in it. George already used that plot point in 1980. He can't just put that there and believe people would go along with it.

I think it's the same thing than for Padmé's death. If Padmé had been violently Force-pushed to a wall, it would have been more logical for her to die from an internal haemmorrhage or something like that, than dying from a broken heart. The problem is, a part of us DOES NOT want to see the main female character of the Prequel Trilogy being killed in such way, especially since she is pregnant (and, moreover, pregnant of Luke and Leia).

In the same way, nobody wants to see a father/son revelation in ROTS, even though I must admit, I strongly believed in that theory for 2 years

 

Let's try this old one again - point out one instance where I said he DOESN'T beat them ?

If Sidious was SO powerful that the force itself had to create a being to take him down, how in the name of blue h*ll should we believe that Yoda or Mace would even be able to last 5 seconds with him ???

 

I already explained this to you a few times now, so I find it ironic that you dare accuse me of being retarded.

 

I dunno man, it doesn't sound right.

Detracts from the Return of the Jedi experience.. I mean, obviously more ironic when you think of "we could rule the galaxy as father and son" but I mean I think it would have destroyed non-obsessive Star Wars fan's movie experience

 

I don't think it would have destroyed their whole movie experience. It's just one point out of many, some would like it, some wouldn't.

 

Palpatine says "Plageuis influenced the midis to create life. With that capability, it seems that the ability to sustain an existing life would be easily within reach."

HINT, HINT, HINT...


Sure, he's literally talking about applying the Sith know-how toward prolonging Padme's life.


"Someone who could do that, could easily do this."

PLAGEUIS LIVES!!!

He DID do it!

He would, he could, and he DID!

Plageuis is the Sith Phantom!

 

out of left field but..

Plageuis created anakin to have his own revenge on palpatine.

i really really really hope there is more to the movie than the book.

enter justinpeeler.....

here justin, here is the mic, go ahead

 

Justin, you make yourself less credible and convincing when you misquote

"We do. From Lucas. "The Force Itself created Anakin"

from the original quotation, which is "Ulitmately, the Force itself created Anakin." I know you attach no significance to Lucas's qualifier, but it's still part of the statement and the inaccuracy makes the rest of your arguments look weaker. As others have made clear in this thread, there's a world of difference between the original and your quotation which leads one to believe you're misquoting on purpose. Just some friendly advice.

 

If Sidious was SO powerful that the force itself had to create a being to take him down, how in the name of blue h*ll should we believe that Yoda or Mace would even be able to last 5 seconds with him ???

OK.

Let's try this. I'm not trying to base these numbers on anything definitive. Rather they are relative numbers meant to make a point.

12 is greater than 10 or 9.
14 is greater than 12.
14 is *not* greater than 10 by an order of magnitude.

Sidious is greater than Yoda, or Mace.
Anakin's potential is greater than Sidious'.
Anakin's potential is not greater than Yoda's or Mace's, by an order of magnitude.

In other words... Sidious does *not* need to dwarf everyone else's power by an order of magnitude in order to be enough of a threat to the Force that it would need to create a being just to deal with him.

All that's required is that he be beyond the powers of those already existing. He does *not* need to be a giant stepping on an ant in order to be a credible threat.

 

You got the "ultimately," but you forgot the "I would say."

Strong, unambiguous = "My car is a Honda."

Weak, tenuous = "Ultimately I would say that my car is a Honda."

If you can't simply declare a so-called fact, something is suspicious.


As every "writer" ought to know... don't forget the good ol' ellipsis (dot-dot-dot) when you leave out part of a quote; own up to the fact that something is missing...

That is, if you're a writer who actually writes...

 

Just cause Peeler left out "Ultimately" doesn't mean that it isn't any less valid. The Force created Anakin, not Plaugies or Sidious. Also consider Howell, that Sidious later tells Anakin that he killed Plaugeis, there's no way in hell he's alive.

 

Darth_Howell_III posted on 4/15/05 8:16am

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Palpatine says "Plageuis influenced the midis to create life. With [i]that [/i]capability, it seems that the ability to [i]sustain [/i]an [i]existing [/i]life would be easily within reach."

HINT, HINT, HINT...


Sure, he's literally talking about applying the Sith know-how toward prolonging Padme's life.


"Someone who could do that, could easily do this."

PLAGEUIS LIVES!!!

He DID do it!

He would, he could, and he DID!

Plageuis is the Sith Phantom!

[hr][/blockquote]

Using the words of a lair to support your argument doesn't support your argument.

It destroys it.

 

RedShark92 posted on 4/15/05 9:39am

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If Sidious was SO powerful that the force itself had to create a being to take him down, how in the name of blue h*ll should we believe that Yoda or Mace would even be able to last 5 seconds with him ???



OK.

Let's try this. I'm not trying to base these numbers on anything definitive. Rather they are relative numbers meant to make a point.

12 is greater than 10 or 9.
14 is greater than 12.
14 is *not* greater than 10 by an order of magnitude.

Sidious is greater than Yoda, or Mace.
Anakin's potential is greater than Sidious'.
Anakin's potential is not greater than Yoda's or Mace's, by an order of magnitude.

In other words... Sidious does *not* need to dwarf everyone else's power by an order of magnitude in order to be enough of a threat to the Force that it would need to create a being just to deal with him.

All that's required is that he be beyond the powers of those already existing. He does *not* need to be a giant stepping on an ant in order to be a credible threat.

[hr][/blockquote]

As I said. Good job!

 

PLAGEUIS LIVES!!!
He DID do it!
He would, he could, and he DID!
Plageuis is the Sith Phantom!

Did you read the novel, or the screenplay, Howell? Something tells me either you didn't, or you did and are still in bitter denial.

 

Wow, am I the only one who thinks it could be a good idea? I'm not sure of the plot holes it'd make in the OT but it seems neat and would definetly make you look at things differently.

 

"...Sidious later tells Anakin that he killed Plaugeis, there's no way in hell he's alive..."


He's alive... in spirit.

Why don't you guys pool your talents and write a thread on the subject?

There's a "writer" amongst you somewhere, I just know it!


You forgot the "I would say" again.

"Ultimately, I would say my name is Jim. Nice to meet you."

How ridiculous it sounds when you preface a straightforward fact fact with "ultimately I would say"!