Lucas' Original Concept-- Palpatine as Anakin's Father

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Noel-Gallagher, Apr 10, 2005.

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  1. Jedi_Interceptor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2005
    star 4
    After seeing this scan, now I know this is completely bogus.

    Go to the store and look at the thing yourself. It is there on page 42.
  2. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    CSL - It's real.

    This isn't some giant hoax to just fool you, the original poster said it was from the Making of Book. We all can just go pick up our own copies and look at them.

    Try again, Sherlock.
  3. Antilles58 TFNInteractive Games Programmer

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    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2000
    star 3
    Yep. Definitely real. I think its just as dumb an idea as dooku saying he engineered shmi's death. I'm glad both of those were cut. I can understand not wanting to believe it though, cause I definitely wouldn't have believed Lucas would do something like that before I read it in the book.
  4. Darth_Love Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2001
    star 3

    The scan is real. If you've ever read a script, then you'll realize that's the font (courier) they're written in.

    Do really think someone would go through all the trouble to make up a scene that was cut from the film? What would the purpose for that be?
  5. CantStandLiberals Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 1
    Perhaps I should repeat my disclaimer which everyone seemed to have missed:

    And if by any chance it IS real, it was nothing more than a herring put forth by Lucas much like the "Obi-Wan is your father" herring given to Prowse and others during TESB.
  6. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Theres no reason to explain Anakins origins. Anakin has no Father, pure and simple. The only people who can't grasp that fact are people who really donm't understand anything about myth and legend and fantasy storytelling. Annakin is no differant than so many other mythological figures, from Jesus to Hercules and countless other hero's from a whole host of classic myths.

    It was totall,y 100% the correct decision from Lucas, to stick to Anakin having no Father, beyond the Force.
  7. Vosk Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Thank god they decided to scrap this idea...
  8. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Perhaps I should repeat my disclaimer which everyone seemed to have missed:

    And if by any chance it IS real, it was nothing more than a herring put forth by Lucas much like the "Obi-Wan is your father" herring given to Prowse and others during TESB.


    No, sorry. Wrong again. It was in the script. During many of the early versions of the script for that matter. Just read the Making of... book. It's all in there. What would it be a herring for anyway? To make people speculate incorrectly? Well we didn't know of this cut scene until the making of book was released and we have the script as well... so... you're wrong.
  9. Noel-Gallagher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 1
    Hey Barth, Just read your updated post on Page 1 of this thread. Thanks for your insight, I agree with all of your reasoning points. I didn't realize there was already a thread about this a while back.
  10. Vosk Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    The script from the Making Of Ep III book is indeed AN EARLY VERSION OF THE SCRIPT. NOT THE FINAL VERSION

    If it stated it was scrapped then it was scrapped END OF DISCUSSION.
  11. CantStandLiberals Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 1
    "No, sorry. Wrong again. It was in the script. During many of the early versions of the script for that matter. Just read the Making of... book. It's all in there. What would it be a herring for anyway? To make people speculate incorrectly? Well we didn't know of this cut scene until the making of book was released and we have the script as well... so... you're wrong."

    Dude, I'm not trying to "compete" with you or anything - so just relax. Again, to me, it seems like something so contradictory, that I think Lucas just put that in the Making Of.... book or wherever he first let this "possible" dialog become public for fun. And I don't remember this being in the final script - what script are you referring to? Again, relax - sheesh.

    I also think Lucas may have just dropped his most ridiculous ideas that he never took seriously in this Making Of book. Seems like a good way to sell every last scrap related to Star Wars to me. If you disagree with my suppositions, fine. But get off your high horse man.
  12. VaapadCreator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 1
    I wouldda puked if GL put that in the storyline. That's just ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of him blabbing about "echoing" and "alliteration" in the films. That wouldn't have been alliteration; that woulda been a verbatim copy. But thankfully he didn't put it in ROTS. So, i still love the SW films! and Ep.3 is gonna rock!
  13. Kad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2005
    star 1

    "...wouldda puked if GL put that in the storyline. That's just ridiculous. I'm sick and tired of him blabbing about "echoing" and "alliteration" in the films. That wouldn't have been alliteration; that "



    ..an alliteration would've been:

    SIDIOUS: Seventeen silly Separatists shall be slaughtered on Saturday.


    Sorry. Just had to correct that :)
  14. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    It's not in the script. That's my point. There is no herring.

    There would be no point in pretending something existed and was cut. The whole, "Obi-Wan killed your father" bussiness was to cover up the truth. Lucas wouldn't create a lie like this so people would think he considered doing something that he then decided not to. That is way too elaborate and totally and utterly pointless. The Making of Book chronicles the development of Star Wars Episode III. It is not a book intended to create speculation. Indeed, when you read it, it seems as though it should be read after the movie is seen. It is not designed to give you spoilers.

    And I'm not competing with you, I am just showing how your point is unfounded.
  15. r0b0_tr0n Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 1
    Just because Palpatine was going to say it at some point, doesn't mean that it would've been true. Palpatine is the master manipulator, after all.
  16. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    This seems like a really early idea Lucas may have been tooling around with, and I'm glad that it didn't develop any farther than this. Anakin has more value as a character if the decision to go to the dark side is his alone, and not just one which he makes because he's been told he's the anti-Christ of the Force.

  17. CantStandLiberals Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 1
    Well if this idea was "leaked" way before the "Making Of" book and at the beginning of ROTS production, as some here have implied, then it could have indeed been a herring, so my point is NOT unfounded, as you've declared. McCallum stated that many "untruths" and false plot points and dialog would be leaked during the filming of the movie. So again, please don't act like you know it all. None of us know EXACTLY what's going on in Lucas' head and what he had ALWAYS planned or was considering changing.
  18. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Like you are doing?

    This idea WASN'T leaked... ever. Some people thought it up as an idea, but it was never leaked.

    So... I guess you were proving my point.
  19. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    it does not matter anymore. it probably was in an earlier version of the scrpit....but it has been officially SCRAPPED. so, really, theres no need to continue this discussion since it is deleted and Anakin has no father.

    Besides, knowing Sidious, if he did say that he was anakins father in the movie it would be nothing but a LIE to get Anakin to turn to the darkside. Just like how he tells anakin that his master knew of a way to cheat death...wich is a flat out lie to Anakin as NO sith lord knows of the way to cheat death....and even if they knew of a way to cheat death they cannot since you must be compassinate, you must love and you cannot be greedy....and the sith are NONE of these.

    so Sidious telling anakin that his master knew of the way to cheat death is a flat out lie.....and if Sidious had told anakin that he was ani's father then that would also most certainly be a LIE. the prophecy says that the chosen one would be born through the midichalorians....not through the power of a sith lord. so sidious would be lying to anakin if he had told anakin that he was his father.

    and maybe even George Lucas was thinking this when he wrote this in the early version of the script that Sidious would lie to anakin about being his father....and then maybe Lucas just decided that it would be going overboard since the knowing how to cheat death LIE is just enough to get anakin to turn to the darkside and there would be no need for sidious to add another lie in.
  20. Jedi_Interceptor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2005
    star 4
    McCallum stated that many "untruths" and false plot points and dialog would be leaked during the filming of the movie

    He said fans invent things that are false, not that Lucasfilm leaks knowingly false information about the plot of the movie.
  21. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Theres no reason to explain Anakins origins. Anakin has no Father, pure and simple.

    G-Fett, when will you undersand that many of the truths we cling to, depend greatly on our point of view?

    I love it when people say glib stuff like this. I bet people said "Darth Vader killed Luke's father plain and simple" when people were speculating about what would happen in ESB.

    There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there is more than one way to interpret and represent myth in a modern context. Sure he has not father and it is an immaculate conception, but that doesn't mean that that is all there is to it. There are numerous examples of father-less births in myth and each of them are very different. Consider the birth of Hera in Greek myth vs the birth of Merlin in Anglo-Saxon mythology.

    Sidious having a hand in the will that compelled the midi-chlorians to concieve Anakin would contradict nothing and would not be out of line in the context of mythology.


    EDIT: Noel, thanks. I guess this thread is here to stay, anyway.
  22. darthxman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    star 2
    But WHY does everyone hate this idea? It would have been a nice surprise twist just like Vader saying he was Lukes father in ESB.

    Note also that Palpatine does not say that he actually IS Anakins father but that he could be CONSIDERED as a father because of the way he manipulated the events.

    I have no problem believing that Sidious could or would have controled Midi-Chlorians to create an apprentice, insert him into the Jedi order to have him betray them from within, and then have him be his general for the Empire. Its an insidious plot! Forgive the pun.

    He also tried to get another Jedi from within the order to betray them - Dooku.

    I know everyone seems to hate this idea but not one is really saying WHY? if you look at it it doesnt really ruin anything and it explains a few things. So whats wrong with that?
  23. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    That's a good point, Barth.

    Nonetheless, it would have seemed too contrived, and I am glad that Lucas threw that out the window.

    The problem with this idea is that it is too major of an event in the OT to place again in the PT. Plus there is the whole issue of, "Well, why Anakin's mom?" Just chosen randomly is a poor explanation. Palpatine just didn't stand in some town square, close his eyes, spin around and say, "That one!" Did he sense something in her. Suddenly, you will need a whole new prequal trilogy. It's just too much, and entirely unneccesary.

    The Dooku-Orchestrating the death of Anakin's mom was interesting, but I just can't imagine anyone "orchestraing" anything with Tusken Raiders.
  24. Magic_Al Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2003
    star 3
    If Lucas was still thinking this when he started writing ROTS, was it what he had in mind while writing Ep. 1-2? Is it still true even if Lucas decided not to have Palpatine tell Anakin?

    Or, if Palpatine now says only Plagueis had the power to cause midichlorians to create life, are we supposed to infer that Plagueis created Anakin? When did Palpatine kill Plaugeis?

    What's the bottom line on what happened, in other words? If an EU author wanted to explain Anakin's conception, what would Lucas Licensing say they can and can't do?
  25. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Interesting post on Page 1, Barth.

    The story as it now stands, leaves Anakin's origins ambiguous. We now know the following facts:

    1. Anakin did not have a biolgical father. He was created by midichlorians.
    2. The Sith had discovered the ability to create life by influencing midichlorians (deliberately left in the screenplay according to Stover's chat).

    With these two facts, there are already two explanations, both perfectly logical, given the imagination of the viewer.
    One: Anakin is a Christ-like figure, created by the Force.
    Two: Anakin is a tragic figure, created by the Sith for their own benefit.

    If One: SW is a tragic tale of a "Christ"-like figure turning to an evil Anti-Christ, then finally being redeemed.
    If Two: SW is the inspiring tale of someone created by the Sith for evil, who is trained by the "good" Jedi, falls victim to his destiny, and then at the end, heroically rises above his destiny and the curse of his birth, to CHOOSE to be good and be a Jedi.

    Both stories work.

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