Lucas' Original Concept-- Palpatine as Anakin's Father

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Noel-Gallagher, Apr 10, 2005.

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  1. darthxman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    star 2
    "He said fans invent things that are false, not that Lucasfilm leaks knowingly false information about the plot of the movie."

    I seem to remember something called REVENGE Of The JEDI! They even went as far as to print t-shirts and posters! And it has since been confirmed that it was NOT an accident or that Lucas changed his mind, but that is WAS done on purpose.

    So if McCallum, or anyone at LucasFilm, said that he's wrong or outright lying, and if you believe it you need to stop sniffing the Bantha Poodu. Its part of their teasing the fans.
  2. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    Revenge of the Jedi was the title.

    They then changed it at the last minute deciding that Jedis don't seak revenge. Watch the Empire of Dreams documentry on OT discs.

    Do your research before spewing out know-it-all falsities.
  3. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    This theory actually makes sense and ties up other holes in the script.

    ARGUMENT 1: According to the RotS script, Anakin gives in too easily, this gives Anakin a better reason to switch. Earlier on in the movie when he first finds out that Palps is a Sith Lord, he pulls out his saber and says he should kill him right then and there. Then he goes and rats out his dear friend the Chancellor to Mace. Why then, would he so easily decide to become a Sith?

    He would turn this easily if he had proof that Sidious had the power that he claims to have. He claims to know how to use the force to create life. If he created Anakin, then he has the proof that he needs that he can create life. Furthermore, it gives Anakin a deeper connection with Palpatine, and hence it is easier for Anakin to join Palpatine. It is easier for Anakin to join Palps if Palps is responsible for his very existence!

    ARGUMENT 2: The "cut scene".

    The existence of this cut scene from the script really gives some weight to the possiblity the idea could be reincorporated into the movie.

    The fact that this scene was ever in the script completely nullifies the argument that claims that "Anakin has no father plain and simple". The fact that it was ever in the script means that it is possible for it to happen in Star Wars and consistent with the mythological roots of star wars.


    ARGUMENT 3: Provides a nice parallel to ESB

    The movie is already loaded with parallels, so you know GL likes to put them in. The dialogue even parallel's Vader's in ESB. If tell me "there are already too many paralles", then I would say that is your opinion, not GL's. The fact that there are lots of them doesn't make another less likely, it makes it more likely.
  4. Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    I'm glad they're cut. I doubt there was ever any actual validity to those lines.
  5. actionfigurepro1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2005
    ok many of you don't know who i am and can plainly see that i am new to these boards. however this info that i give is from a VERY reliable source. so whether you choose to believe me or not its your choice.


    SPOILERS AHEAD.


    all of these things about palpatine are in the script at some point ( sorry for those who don't like it) palpatine is vader's father. some things you should take into consideration- palpatine sensed the power in anakin before he was even approved to be a jedi. now if anakin was concieved by the sith for there purposes than one can truly think that he would become almost pure evil hence this comment to yoda during the fight with palpatine- DARTH VADER WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN EITHER OF US. this almost states that he will become pure evil. jumping ahead so stay with me in rotj and rots we hear from luke and padme that the can sense that there is good in him. So this is what i have been told. THE EMPEROR WAS CONVINCED THAT ONCE VADER HAD TURNED THERE WOULD BE NOTHING LEFT BUT EVIL BECAUSE HE WAS PURE SITH. PADME AND LUKE AT POINTS IN THE STORY BOTH SAY THEY CAN FEEL GOOD IN HIM. HENCE THERE IS THE PROPHECY THAT EVEN THROUGH PURE EVIL SOMEONE CAN BE SAVED. THE EMPEROR NEVER THOUGHT IN A MILLION YEARS THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN THEREFORE THAT IS WHY HE WAS DISPOSSED OF SO EASILY IN ROTJ ALSO WHY HE WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE VADER, BECAUSE LUKE HAD THE SAME POTENTIAL BECAUSE OF HIS FAMILY ORIGINS. SO THE STORY OR POINT OF STAR WARS IS NO MATTER HOW EVIL OR FAR YOU STRAY THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY BACK.


    So i am sure some will read this and think nothing of it but some will take it into consideration either way I don't care. its all about choice.
  6. Papa_Padawan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2004
    star 1
    From Barth > The theory: Palpatine used the force to create Anakin 10 years before TPM. Palpatine was from Naboo, so he chose a planet near his home planet.

    Well, I don't know the exact planet where Anakin was born, but it wasn't Tatooine... He says this in TPM.
  7. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    The fact that this scene was ever in the script completely nullifies the argument that claims that "Anakin has no father plain and simple". The fact that it was ever in the script means that it is possible for it to happen in Star Wars and consistent with the mythological roots of star wars.

    That's just not true. Go back to the first scripts for ANH, so we can take everything in there use it in arguements. All this proves is that it was ONCE in the script. The idea has since been done away with (or until an EU author decides to tackle it). For now however we have to accept that Palpatine is a father figure to Anakin and serves his purpose that way.

    Actionfigurepro1, this is a spoiler board, no need to warn about spoilers.
  8. Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    He has no father. George could have toyed with the idea of Jar Jar being his father.... it doesn't matter. It's non-existant, because it didn't make it's way out of a few early drafts.
  9. Noel-Gallagher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 1
    Hey actionfigurepro1-- Thanks for your post. I really hope what you are saying is true. I know there are some who are on both sides of the issue-- some would like Palpaltine to be identified as Anakin's father, and some (it seems a majority) would not. I personally think that it would tie up everything perfectly so I hope you are right and this is in the final draft.
  10. Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
  11. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I don't know the exact planet where Anakin was born, but it wasn't Tatooine... He says this in TPM.

    Right on, man. I'll take your word for that. Modify my post accordingly. Perhaps Palpatine, or a close associate owned Shmi and Anakin before they were sold to Gardulla the Hutt?

    actionfigurepro1, posting anything from a "reliable source" without any more information than that doesn't really fly well around here. People will assume your are full of crap by default. The reason is that there are so many other people who post stuff like that claiming to have some info.
  12. FloridaFilmGuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2000
    star 2
    I would love for this to be in the movie.
  13. -Master_Yoda- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2005
    star 3
    I'm firmly in the 'no' camp to this. Not only because it's not part of the film, but the whole point of the saga for me was that Anakin was the Chosen One, conceived by the Force, who was meant to bring balance. It's Lucas taking a leaf straight out of Christian beliefs.

    What makes Anakin's fall all the more dramatic is that the Chosen One, born by a virgin mother, succumbs to temptation, and becomes the antithesis of what he is supposed to be, before his redemption 25 years later.

    And besides, why would Palpatine pick a random woman like Shmi Skywalker to cause a child to be born? Is he going to scour the galaxy until he finds someone?!
  14. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    That's just not true. Go back to the first scripts for ANH, so we can take everything in there use it in arguements. All this proves is that it was ONCE in the script.

    I see your point that we cannot accept every version of every script as Star Wars cannon. That would lead to a whole mess of contradictions. But there is a big difference between a fairly late version of the script for the last movie of the saga, and something Lucas jotted down in 1975.

    The point that I was trying to make is that if GL can wrap his head around this idea, and not see any contradiction with anything else, then it is possible for it to fit in with the rest of the saga. Just trying to say that all the posts that simply say "this could never happen" or "Anakin has no father, plain and simple" don't apply because GL once seriously pondered this scenario as part of RotS and as part of the saga. This was no simple passing consideration either, he actually put it into a fairly late version of the script.
  15. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    "SO THE STORY OR POINT OF STAR WARS IS NO MATTER HOW EVIL OR FAR YOU STRAY THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY BACK. "

    Lay of the old caps-lock there tiger. That isn't the point of the story. Lucas has said so himself. He said the point of the story is that "It's really about possessiveness and greed, Vader wants to control the universe, control life. But you can't do that. You have to accept life. You have to accept the sun is going to go down. And that it's going to get dark. And that everything, ultimately, has to end."

    Read it for yourself: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2005-03-20-revenge-of-the-sith_x.htm

    Also... if everyone can be redeemed why not Palpatine?

    I call a big old stinking pile of horse**** on this one.
  16. Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Even if you are to take the dialogue itself serious, you should take in to consideration that Palpatine was probably lying.
  17. CantStandLiberals Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 1
    LOL....!

    "Revenge of the Jedi was the title.

    They then changed it at the last minute deciding that Jedis don't seak revenge. Watch the Empire of Dreams documentry on OT discs.

    Do your research before spewing out know-it-all falsities. "

    Maybe someone needs to do their OWN research before spewing out know-it-all falsities.

    Lucas is quoted in the ROTJ 20th anniversary edition of SW Insider as saying he let that marketing campaign go on as a herring to throw off the plot of ROTJ, claiming to have always intended to call Episode VI - Return Of The Jedi and that he corrected Fox only when he deemed it the right time. Let's look at the movie itself - where does Luke ever get revenge? The only version that ever made sense was the one indicating Luke, Anakin, and the Jedi order returning.

    Again, LOL!
  18. BeauRoger Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    glad they scrapped it. would have ruined the whole serie. also raised alot of questions and contradictions. seems to farfetched
  19. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    He always intended to call it Return of the Jedi. Kasdan convinced him to change the name claiming it would sound better. Then, at the last moment, changed it back to Return instead of Revenge.

    Watch Empire of Dreams.

    So, um "LOL ROFL LOL ROFL"
  20. Magic_Al Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2003
    star 3
    Anakin never said he wasn't born on Tatooine.

    PADME
    How long have you been here?

    ANAKIN
    Since I was very little, three, I think. My Mom and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us, betting on the Podraces.

    />

    "Here" probably refers to Watto's shop.

    Although Shmi's OS databank entry does not specify her homeworld, her EU data says she was a slave all her life which means she probably never set foot on any Republic planet, including Naboo./>/>
  21. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Even if you are to take the dialogue itself serious, you should take in to consideration that Palpatine was probably lying.

    Good point, Gabe. And definitely possible. However, Palpatine also tells Anakin to search his feelings and he would know it to be true. Therefore, it would have to be consistent with Anakin's instinct, which is probably pretty damn good. With that said, it is true that Palps lies about everything else and uses the dark-side to cloud everyone's vision, so it is still possible that he is lying.
  22. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    Anakin would give in more easily if he thought Palps was his father. But even more, Anakin trusts Palps like he would a father... and although he tells Anakin to trust his feelings, it would seem rather biased in his mind. Whether or not Palps is telling the truth or not would be up to the audience. I would think he would tell him that if he really wanted to hook him.
  23. CantStandLiberals Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 1
    "He always intended to call it Return of the Jedi."

    Thanks for confirming my point.
  24. JediMasterRonoc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2005
    star 3
    if that was true then that'd mean Luke and Leia would've had a grandpa :eek:
  25. MasterWiYa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2004
    star 3
    ""He always intended to call it Return of the Jedi."

    Thanks for confirming my point. "

    Ok... but the other person was still wrong.

    The name was not switched as contraption to trick audiences. It was "Revenge" because Kasdan said it sounded better. Then it changed back...

    Where are you going with this?
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