Lucas' Original Concept-- Palpatine as Anakin's Father

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Noel-Gallagher, Apr 10, 2005.

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  1. marmkid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2001
    star 4
    it would be stupid on palpatine's part to create anakin and then leave him and his mother in a situation where they could very possibly have been killed. if he were to create him, or however you say it, you would think he would have kept him a little safer than stuck as a slave somewhere. also, why have him train as a jedi? unless he was never meant to be found, which in that case it hurts the story even more, because it makes palpatine incompetent because his secret was partially discovered. no, i think it works much better this way. its an interesting idea, but it seems too many things would be contradicted so far.
  2. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    The scene should have been left in. Just because Palps says he is "responsible" for Anakin's conception doesn't necessarily make it true. The ambiguity there adds to Anakin's confusion, and sets up months of good ol' fashioned fan-boy debate. ;)
  3. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    it would be stupid on palpatine's part to create anakin and then leave him and his mother in a situation where they could very possibly have been killed. if he were to create him, or however you say it, you would think he would have kept him a little safer than stuck as a slave somewhere.

    But didn't someone say to have faith that the universe would unfold as it should?


    Nevermind. (That was Spock in 'The Undiscovered Country'.) [face_blush]
  4. Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 1
    This is crazy there are all kinds of threads all over the site fighting about secret twists and Palps=anikin's father theories.
  5. Noel-Gallagher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah you're right, but this is the only one that is sincere.
  6. Darphus_Mon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2003
    star 2
    I'm soooooo glad that "think of me as your dad" was dropped. Like some have you have already voiced your displeasure on there being too many neat tie-ins in the PT (Anakin building 3PO, Obi Wan's "You'll be the death of me", etc.), this is one I feel would be a stretch. Especially if Lucas always wanted the mythological "virgin birth" for Anakin, why distort that by putting Palps into the equation (unless it's just a fib.)

    On the same note, Dooku or Sidious, I always felt the Tusken's kidnapping and torture of Shmi reeked of Sidious' doings. After all, mind tricks only work on the weak minded. And from my limited knowledge of Tuskens from Ep IV, it just seems above and beyond for Tuskens to kidnap a human and then torture it...they seemed more like dangerous scavengers than sadistic killers in ANH...So that idea I could see...
  7. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    I think the reason GL cut out Palpatine having "created" Anakin, is that it creates a glaring plot hole. If Palpatine knew how to influence midichlorians to create life and a powerful apprentice, then why would he satisfied with a limbless Anakin at the end of RotS? He would immediately start creating another apprentice, so that by ANH, he would have another powerful 20-year-old apprentice. The only reason he wouldn't is because he.... could NOT!

    But..... GL has now dropped the ball by stating that the unnatural power that the Sith possessed is the ability to influence midichlorians to create life. So..... who had this power? Plagueis? Did Sidious kill Plagueis before he fully learnt it himself? Could Plagueis have created Anakin? Was Sidious hoping to learn this power, as well as the power to cheat death with the help of Anakin?

    Isn't it curious that GL put in his script that the Sith had the ability to "create" life? Why? He could easily have put in that the Sith had the ability to unnaturally prolong life! But he chose to go with the "creating" life power!
  8. JaporSnippet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    star 1
    To make it logical, I think Sidious was bluffing... A bait for Anakin...
  9. Xyber_Hex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2004
    star 4
    They do not though, it was ALL A LIE.
    Palps even says in it that he never learned it, and that he and Anakin together can learn it.
    It was all a lie, to tease and to taunt.
    Why is that so hard to understand to so many.
  10. battlewars Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    the whole point of that scene was trying to convince anakin to join him not that he actually was his father. geez
  11. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    It is so "hard to understand by so many that Sidious was completely lying" because it makes Anakin look like someone with the intelligence of a slightly retarded chimp! :rolleyes:

    Here we have this powerful, midichlorian-filled Chosen One, who believes a flimsy story from someone who he KNOWS to be a Sith and goes against people he's known for 13 years! Sure it works, but it makes Anakin much less intelligent than Mr. Binks!
  12. JaporSnippet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    star 1
    Because Anakin was desperate... Desperate to save Padme... People do foolish things when they are desperate...
  13. DarthGroznii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    All right, let's assume that Palpatine could do such a thing. I wouldn't put it beyond him. My problem with it is as follows - why would he go all the way to Tatooine to do this. Why would he pick a random slave like Shmi? It is too much of a stretch in my view.

    Furthermore if it was done purely by the Will of the Force, it boosts Qui Gon's theory of the Living Force.

  14. Barth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Good point, Forever_Jedi. What would stop him from creating another apprentice? Perhaps there can be only one such vergence in the Force at a time? He saves Vader and thereby preventing himself from creating another "vergence" until Vader is gone. Perhaps a better reason is that such a creation would be a threat to him. That is why he had all the Jedi killed off and why the twins are hidden, because they are a threat to him. He is wise to not create another vergence in the Force, because he knows that he has his hands full with one.


    Another major problem with this is it kind of messes up some lines from RotJ. For example, "Rise, my friend", from the Emperor should properly be "Rise, my son", shouldn't it?

    If it is in the film, it then must be understood by both of them that this "father/son" connection should not be taken literally, and is only true from a certain point of view.
  15. Meatypants Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    Good point about Qui-Gon and the living force. If we are really meant to like Qui-Gon at the end of this movie, then dropping this idea was great.

    If Anakin was really a creation of Sidious, the audience would be yelling "damn it Qui, why didn't you leave the bastich on Tatooine?!?"
  16. Vrolokus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3
    If Palpatine declared himself Anakin's father, the public would walk out on Star Wars in disgust for ripping off its own best moment. And I'd have to agree with them for doing so.
  17. Darth_Freeze Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 1
    and "the emperor is your master now" should be "your grandpa is your master now"
  18. battlewars Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    you guys arent this stupid are you? the whole point for any of these scenes is to tempt anakin plain and simple. is anakin a dumbhead? no more so than any of you guys or gals
  19. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I'm glad that was cut, especially the "Thats impossible!" line, man that would have sucked.
  20. lightsaber_wielder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2002
    star 4
    I'm glad that this original concept was abandoned. I have no problem with Anakin's mysterious conception, and giving Palpatine a hand in this takes away the mystery of it. It is also far too similar to Vader's revelation in The Empire Strikes Back. The only time that particular twist will ever work again is in parodies.
  21. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Maybe Plagueis created him. Sidious found out and killed his master. Also, rememeber anakin may not be from tatooine.

    So Sidious just says he is the 'father' He wants Anakin as thinks he may be the key to all this eternal life stuff?

    I said before somewhere that i thought that Palgueis forsaw the fall of the sith. that they would survive. He went to Yoda and told him of what he had done. Yoda kept it a secret from everyone. Plagueis was killed by Sidious and Yoda never knew what happened to the child plagueis created.

    This is all my own conjecture of course but its something i was thinking about after reading LOE.
  22. LukeBaggins Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2003
    star 1
    - just for laughs -

    Sidious 'manipulates' force to bring about Anakin's existence, Padme 'cannot' have children, Anakin learns to 'manipulate' the force to 'conceive' with Padme, blah, blah, blah


    Interesting theroy/theories but I hope the Sidious/'father' concept (at final cut) remains in the void occupied by the Holiday Special, Han being 'raised' by Wookies etc...


  23. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    <<<<(Gives a hearty TPM HEEEEEEE--- HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!)


    Hey guys, did it ever occur to you that:


    "...the movie is less about a surprise plot twist than about the experience, shared with millions, of seeing a story told over and over..."


    is very very different than:


    "There ARE no surprise plot twists."


    Now which one of you has the GUTS to admit: hmmm, Pablo was a bit evasive on the subject of Anakin's parentage, doggedly clinging to the questionable mantra that 'what Shmi said was true.'


    As far as she knew, 'there was no father' - but was there a male impetus, unknown to her?

    She can't explain what happened - whoopee, that doesn't mean 'nothing happened.'

  24. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    Did he have ANYTHING planned out????

    If he waits so long to decide on something this important, man, his storytelling really comes off as driven by uncertainty.

    Time to dig up that old 'Does Lucas make it up as he goes along?" thread.

  25. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Let's not forget the old reassigning-dialogue-from-one-character-to-another-trick...

    Who could actually speak these words...?

    Plageuis was supposedly the expert, but he would have to be speaking after his dea--------



    ....ahhhhhhHhhhHHhHHHh....
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