Lucas' Original Concept-- Palpatine as Anakin's Father

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Noel-Gallagher, Apr 10, 2005.

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  1. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    Howell.... Careful... You're about to form a new Theory!!
  2. JFKIII Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2005
    star 2
    First off, nice name Noel-Gallagher. I'm a big Oasis fan. Also, if that was Lucas' original concept, I'm glad he changed it because that would just plain suck. Hearing Shmi say that in TPM that there was no father was for me one of the coolest revelations ever in the saga. It will make the Skywalkers more special if Anakin was conceived by the force, not because his midis were manipulated into it by Darth Sidious.
  3. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Did the midiclorians know that the person they'd "willed" into existence...

    ...would promptly become the murderer of countless innocent men, women and children?

    What does that say about the Force, if it "willed" this to happen?

    Much better to have the whole thing manipulated by some fiend.
  4. JediPriestess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    Noel-Gallagher posted on 4/10/05 2:43pm
    />

    And I thank the stars that he deleted that crap. Much better with Anakin being a pure product of the force without any one elses influence in my opinion. :)/>/>
  5. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    Picture it.. Shmi meets Palps in a Tatooine cantina, their eyes meet from across the crowded room.
    He uses the force to charm her..on second thought, she's a slave so she's not that picky anyway ;)
    He buys her a drink or two.
    Next thing she remembers, she wakes up in bed alone and naked..turns her head to the side and sees a pile of republic credits on the pillow next to her..with a note..which says.."thanks for polishing my lightsaber".
  6. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    I'm not sure why, but Lucas decided that he didn't want Palpatine to be Anakin's father, as many have been speculating on for months here on the forum. Personally, I think this dialogue should have been kept.

    Probably because it's too similar to ESB's "I'm your father" moment. Plus, too many people wouldn't get it, and the dialogue about creating midichlorians is a little clumsy, even for Lucas.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Did the midiclorians know that the person they'd "willed" into existence...

    ...would promptly become the murderer of countless innocent men, women and children?

    What does that say about the Force, if it "willed" this to happen?

    Much better to have the whole thing manipulated by some fiend.


    The future is always in motion. The Force saw many different outcomes, but all paths lead to an inevitable conclusion, that Anakin would kill Sidious and bring balance to the Force. The thing was that Anakin had to make the right choices to get there, but instead, he made many wrong ones.

    As I said in a different thread, I think Lucas wanted to create doubt as to the validlity of Anakin being the Chosen One, so that we could focus more on Luke in the OT. But Lucas realized that it would be better to stay the course and have Anakin created by the Force, but raise some doubt with what Sidious said about Plaugeis. And instead rely on the fact that Anakin is now a Sith, thus causing the Jedi to turn to his children instead.
  8. Staraisin Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    It really on the color of the saber. I think it is possible the Emperor is Anakins father. Being that red is associated with the deep dark side of the force. More midichlorians would have been deposited if pushed firmly enough. The Emperor also seems very experienced with a lightsaber from the trailers.
  9. brooklynapprentice Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2004
    star 3
    I actually think that the most interesting thing about this is the window into Luca's process it gives us. It's amazing that he remained undecided on a point as key as this until such a late date. Having already created the prophesy, and Anakin's virgin birth, he still didn't really know what e wanted Anakin's origin to be all about. This says alot to me, as I have always felt this to be one of the thinner elements of the PT. It always seemed not fully conceived to me, and I think this bears it out.
  10. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    I wonder whether lucas has a list of possible twists he could use but is undecided. this has probably been dropped as some people wont get it and it would be ripped apart by critics.

    Maybe theirs life in the old palpy clone theory!

    MS
  11. spiderwing Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2002
    I don't know. i kind of like the idea that Plagieus created Anakin. Maybe Sideous couldn't create another pupil cause he killed him before he himself mastered the power. He really would only have to find the "sith" chosen one cause he was already or was in the process of being created. It could have taken thousands of years just to form.

    As for leaving Anakin,if he died then he couldn't cut it as a sith. Not sure about Palpatine as the father but it does explain things. Seeing how history repeats itself in Star Wars it makes sense the father connection would return in ESB.
  12. SgtZimm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2004
    star 2
    In a rush so didnt get to read it all but id just like to say that i like the idea... the only problem is that it would stuff up ROTJ. Unless they could digitally change the ending cause It would sure make luke a very troubled young man when the emperor says "Come now son, we're all family here"
  13. Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 1
    Ok don't any of you remember what George said way back about people not liking this one, I personaly think that could have somthing to do with the fact that he originaly wanted to have that in. I mean if you start watching from episode 1 then you know that Vader is Luke's fatehr so that no longer has the same dramatic effect. To add that back in Lucas made Sidious Anakin's father so you get the surprise and also to make ESB seem more like a sequel of the prequels. I think Lucas could have known that people would hate Palpatine being Anakin's father because most people wouldn't see it his way so he told everyone that they wouldn't like it hoping though that future generations who watch star wars form episode 1 fisrt would see it his way.
  14. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Lucas removing a concept from a draft, and Lucas declaring that the concept is false, are two different things.

    Lucas cut the dialogue about the Lost Twenty from AOC. That does not mean that there was no such thing as the Lost Twenty - just that he chose not to mention it at that moment.

    Let's not be so quick to say "Dialogue concerning this event was removed from this scene, so the event itself never happened."
  15. Ophidiophobic75 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 1
    What do you mean by this Darth_Howell_III?

    "Hey guys, did it ever occur to you that:


    "...the movie is less about a surprise plot twist than about the experience, shared with millions, of seeing a story told over and over..."


    is very very different than:


    "There ARE no surprise plot twists."
  16. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    Lucas never intented for Palpatine to have created Anakin. He intended for Palpatine to tell Anakin he created him.

    There is a difference there.
  17. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Naysayers have interpreted the above quote - paraphrased from Stover himself - as tantamount to a declaration that "there are no plot surprises in the movie."


    But LFL is trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want you to buy the book, but they have to deal with the implicit question: Why see the movie, if you know everything that happens?

    Stover plays footsie with the concept: "Wellllll, it's not really about plot; it's about having an enjoyable cinematic experience... yeah, that's it."

    'Plot is mostly a side-issue... you should have never really been too worried about it to begin with, since we all know what happens later... blah blah'

    He would not, could not, and cannot, come right out and say "there are cool plot secrets in the movie that the book will omit."

    He couldn't say that without

    A) violating a secrecy directive; or
    B) dampening enthusiasm for his book!


    So he says "Eh, Star Wars is not really about shocking bombshells, ya know."

    That does not mean that this movie will have NO shocking bombshells!

    He's trying to steer the focus away from plot surprises, by saying "look at all the other neat things that Star Wars is about."

    He is doing exactly what a spin doctor does, when he can't say "there are shocking surprises in this movie that I can't talk about."

    It's plenty possible that secrets await the moviegoer... you don't think George would repeat the mistake of publishing the "I am your father" bombshell prior to the movie, do you...?

  18. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    Howell,

    Did publishing "I am your father" hurt ticket sales for ESB? Nope. So how was it a mistake?

    And Stover said "Star Wars is not about plot twists". Pure and simple.

    And forget the book. The script, the final draft of the script, doesn't have any plot twists either.

    Finally, I think you are in the wrong thread. This thread isn't about plot twists. It's about Lucas' original intent to have Palpatine lie about creating Anakin.
  19. SAND-CRAWLER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Lucas never intented for Palpatine to have created Anakin. He intended for Palpatine to tell Anakin he created him.

    There is a difference there.


    Exactly. Lucas wanted to give Palpatine a little more evilness in that he would lie and say that he helped create Anakin. This then would give more loyalty to him so that Anakin wouldn't kill him. The problems that lie in this idea is that it would confuse everyone as to if he's telling the truth or lying and there would be no way to find the answer. Secondly, it would be too much of a mirror of ESB. Thirdly (and probably the main reason why Lucas cut it), it is illogical that Palpatine would know the secret to creating life through medichlorians and then tell Anakin that he doesn't know how to prolong life like Plagues did. The only purpose in Lucas mind in puting it in the story was to give Palpatine a little more "life insurance" when he told Anakin that he was a Sith, but the problem is that it would create more questions than motives.
  20. Dark-emperor-1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Think abount it would'nt it be creepy if the emperor was lukes Grandfather.Flash back to empire stikes back "luke i am youre father" (Anakin i am youre father.
  21. -Commander_Cody- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 2
    Yeah, I think Palpatine being Anakin's father is pretty scary. Who'd want a deformed face for a father anyway? But, also, it doesn't fit with the story. Lucas said he wanted Anakin to be similar to Jesus, in that a virgin gives birth to him. If Palpatine created Anakin, it'd be more like the Dark SIde creating Anakin for its own uses. BUt in the end, we all know that it is Anakin's choice and inability to let things go that sends him on a path towards darkness.
  22. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Palpatine wouldn't be Anakin's "father"; he would be responsible for his conception, but I would like this, for Palps character.

    He creates the chosen one to manipulate the prophecy so he wins. His overconfidence is his weakness. It would have been interesting, too bad it was cut.

    I don't see it as an "I am your father" moment at all...
  23. FloridaFilmGuy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2000
    star 2
    I love how all you people have all these insights into the way Lucas thinks, writes, and what he wants or doesn't want to imply.

    You guys have no clue about anything, you have as much clue as to what GL is thinking as anyone else does. What the heck do any of you know about his intentions, or what he really means....

    C'mon.

    The one smart poster here was the guy who said the comment about the lost 20. just because it isn't spoken inthe film, doesn't man the intention wasn't there.

    I'll go into the film believing Sideous created his apprentice through the force, and to heck with all of you who claim to know Lucas never meant for that to be the case.

    What do you all know.





  24. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    FloridaFilmGuy posted on 4/11/05 1:37pm

    You guys have no clue about anything, you have as much clue as to what GL is thinking as anyone else does. What the heck do any of you know about his intentions, or what he really means....

    C'mon.

    The one smart poster here was the guy who said the comment about the lost 20. just because it isn't spoken inthe film, doesn't man the intention wasn't there.

    I'll go into the film believing Sideous created his apprentice through the force, and to heck with all of you who claim to know Lucas never meant for that to be the case.

    What do you all know.







    />

    I know that in Vanity Fair Lucas said that the Force created Anakin and that Palpatine is the devil. I know that the prophecy of the Chosen One is that the Force would create a being that would destroy the Sith, which is what Anakin did in ROTJ.

    Palpatine was never meant to be Anakin's creator. Palpatine is a liar.

    And Howell is not the only smart poster here./>/>
  25. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    It is interesting that as late as after AotC, Lucas was still thinking about Anakin's origins. He cut out the concept of Palpatine having created Sidious. Because, if it was in, there would be nothing preventing him from creating newer, better apprentices after Anakin's lava incident. However, GL kept the concept of the Sith having an ability to create life by influencing midichlorians. Why? Why not make it completely unambiguous by giving the Sith the ability to cheat death - that could be a "lie" too. Just in case, Anakin, with his enormous Force potential, cannot see through direct lies!

    From the Stover chat on April 6:

    "Hello Mr. Stover.
    In your novel, you describe the Sith having a technique that uses Midi-Chlorians to "create" life. Is this more than a mere coincidence regarding Anakin's fatherless conception?"

    "You'd have to ask Mr. Lucas that question. That comes directly from the script."


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