Lucas Ruining Original Trilogy

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LukeTrue1, Jun 8, 2002.

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  1. LukeTrue1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002




    I, like many of the people on this web-site have been a die-hard Star Wars fan for my entire life, and as much as it pains me to admit this, George Lucas is making episodes 1-3 as he goes along and is desecrating the OT in the process. Search your feelings you know it to be true. The inconsistencies between the Original Trilogy and episodes 1-3 are simply too vast to be ignored.

    In the OT when Obi Wan speaks to Luke about his father Anakin Skywalker, he tells him that when he met his father he was impressed by his skills as a pilot but was amazed with how strong he was in the force. At no point did he mention anything about him being a little boy. He said that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, he told Luke he thought he could teach Anakin as well as Yoda taught him. At NO point did he mention Qui-gon because Qui-gon did not exist until a few years ago when Lucas sat down to write the new episodes.

    Also in the OT Anakin was referred to as Obi-wan?s apprentice, not young padawan, this is also because the term never existed until Lucas began writing the PT pretending as if we?d be too drunk off of the special effects and Darth Maul?s double bladed lightsabre to notice.

    Hey it?s no problem, Lucas created Star Wars so he can do whatever he wants right? Right, but it is sad to see that he has lost his touch and the OT is suffering as a result of that. Because he is writing as he is going along 20 years after the OT he is making a mockery of it in the process. Yeah I know it sounds harsh but it?s the truth. Pay Close attention.
    MIDOCHLORIONS- of course this is where the force comes from right? Little cells in the body of Jedi that produce mighty force power. Hmmm I wonder where that one came from. I?m not sure how long it?s been since you guys have studied biology but, even if it?s been a while you must be familiar with MITOCHONDRION-little cells in our bodies which produce ATP otherwise known as energy (or force power I can?t be sure any longer because I am getting them confused). This is an insult to me and anyone else who is educated and as an inkling of common sense.
    It does not stop there any sensible human being can see that Lucas is trying to force connections between the OT and the PT. Which makes sense of course but not when you do it backwards. For instance you cannot base the PT on the OT when chronologically the PT comes first. It will NOT fit. Which is what we are witnessing right now. It would have been fine if the PT had actually been WRITTEN at the time the OT was created but that is not the case (this point cannot be contested when ANH came out ESB and ROTJ were not even written).
    Quick examples, Anakin blows up a space station in TPM for no other reason than because Luke blew up the Death Star in ANH. Anakin builds Threepio for no other reason than Threepio comes into Luke?s possession in ANH. But come on people, how do you figure Anakin build Threepio, a protocol droid , when there are NUMEROUS protocol droids in the OT. What, did he get a Corellian Patent on the invention?!
    Anakin has a vision about a loved one being in pain in AOTC for no other reason than because Luke had one in ESB.
    This is hurting Star Wars. We, lovers of the Original Trilogy enjoy it because it is something magical that wasn?t just about Lightsabre duels and special effects, it had compelling writing and storytelling, that taught us about life.
    These new films are nothing but a pale imitation of what the OT stood for and they detract from them greatly. Now all of a sudden Star Wars has nothing to do with Luke Skywalker, the same character that the novel entitled ??Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker??, which was written by Lucas, is named after. All of a sudden everything that Luke did has no significance and he is being referred to by ?fans? as the ?whiney Jedi?. All I?m asking for is some honesty. Lucas is hurting the OT with episodes 1-3 by not staying true to his original vision. It?s sad but even a spectacular Lightsabre battle involving Yoda or Darth Maul cann
  2. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    [face_plain]

    I disagree completely.
  3. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    I disagree as well. I'm beginning to think that some people started liking Star Wars for the wrong reasons.
  4. Kerr_Plunk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 6
    ya know.. i am of the belief that if you over-analyze anything you will, without a doubt, find some fault with it...

    i have absolutely no problem with the "inconsistencies" ... i simply will not let them bring me to the level of being an over-critical non-fan (i am NOT saying that is what you are - just what i am afraid that i would become)...

    maybe Obi-Wan didn't say 'padawan' to luke because the term would have been lost to him... after all, Obi-Wan had to explain what the Force was, so i think that Obi-Wan was just speaking in the simplest of terms..

    edit: typos
  5. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    If the prequels really bother you that much, I suggest that you just don't watch them and pretend they were never made. I don't have a problem with anything you have mentioned. Even if I didn't like the prequels, I would wait until they were finished before saying that all of the above mentioned things were not addressed. One that was addressed was the word "learner"

    Darth Vader: When last we met, I was but the LEARNER...now I am the master.
  6. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    What? How can you say that? He can make any changes he wants, some will like it and some won't. We all have to make sacrafices. I am confident in what Lucas adds will be cool.
  7. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4


    Just to counter your specific concerns:

    "I, like many of the people on this web-site have been a die-hard Star Wars fan for my entire life, and as much as it pains me to admit this, George Lucas is making episodes 1-3 as he goes along and is desecrating the OT in the process."

    Desecrating? Come off it. They're movies, they're myth, they're fun. They're not sacred. Give it a rest.

    George is making it up as he goes along? Well, yes - that's what writers do. Lucas has had a basic outline and history for the Star Wars saga since before ANH was released, but all the specific have to be added in with each new script. Why do you consider it to be such a horrendous thing that he's not had every bloody line planned out for 30 years?

    I, too have been a Star Wars fan for my entire life. I saw ANH on its opening night when I was 4. I love the PT, just as I love the OT. I'm sorry if your attachment to the OT makes you unable to see the flaws in that trilogy, and thus the merits in the PT.

    "Search your feelings you know it to be true. The inconsistencies between the Original Trilogy and episodes 1-3 are simply too vast to be ignored."

    First of all, these inconsistencies cannot be considered such until we see Episode III and any changes Lucas makes to the OT, in order to complete his vision. Furthermore, most of these "plot holes" are nitpicking and only the fanboy type tends to notice them. Relax. It's called the suspension of disbelief. It's a great benefit when viewing movies, especially movies based on the metaphor of myth.

    "In the OT when Obi Wan speaks to Luke about his father Anakin Skywalker, he tells him that when he met his father he was impressed by his skills as a pilot but was amazed with how strong he was in the force. At no point did he mention anything about him being a little boy."

    Yeah... He really should have told Luke all about the podrace, Sebulba, Watto, Shmi, slavery, and while he was at it, told Luke that his father was Vader. Hell, why not tell him everything and give him the emotional burden that would criple him against Vader? Lighten up. There's no reason that Kenobi needed to inform Luke that when he met Anakin, he was a little boy.

    "He said that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, he told Luke he thought he could teach Anakin as well as Yoda taught him. At NO point did he mention Qui-gon because Qui-gon did not exist until a few years ago when Lucas sat down to write the new episodes."

    How do you know that Qui-Gon didn't exist? Did Lucas tell you this? Even if it's true, why would Kenobi mention Qui-Gon to Luke? Luke would have no idea what he was talking about. Referencing Yoda makes sense because Luke KNOWS Yoda. Sheesh.

    "Also in the OT Anakin was referred to as Obi-wan?s apprentice, not young padawan, this is also because the term never existed until Lucas began writing the PT pretending as if we?d be too drunk off of the special effects and Darth Maul?s double bladed lightsabre to notice."

    What? So, let me get this straight - in the short time between meeting Luke in the Jundland Wastes and dying, Kenobi is supposed to teach him all the old Jedi terminology and history, rather than focus on his training? Give me a break.

    "Hey it?s no problem, Lucas created Star Wars so he can do whatever he wants right? Right, but it is sad to see that he has lost his touch and the OT is suffering as a result of that. Because he is writing as he is going along 20 years after the OT he is making a mockery of it in the process. Yeah I know it sounds harsh but it?s the truth. Pay Close attention."

    I have paid close attention. I'm not convinced that you have. The PT is brilliant in terms of story-telling and mythology. Perhaps had you studied mythology rather than nitpicking little details, you might be able to see that.

    "MIDOCHLORIONS- of course this is where the force comes from right?"

    Actually, no. If you had been "paying attention", the Midichlorians act as an interpreter for the Force. They aren't where the force comes f
  8. GrandMoffTarkin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 5
    I also disagree to be honest. Especially just after AOTC which I think brought the two trilogies together beautifully. I must admit that while I liked TPM, I had to refer to the Classic Trilogy and Episode 1 because they seemed completely seperate. With AOTC, the two trilogies are knitted together and I refer to the Star Wars Saga.

    I consider quite a few of your points biased against the Prequels. For one, the Midichlorians do not create the Force. Life creates it, just like it did in the Classics. Midichlorians only allow communication between us and the Force. I'm sorry, but I think that's bending the facts to make the link between them and mitochondrion more evident than it is. (I know CWRNPUPPET already said this, but I can't be bothered to edit it! :p)
    Also, Anakin did not so much build 3PO as rebuild him. I think this is dealt with in the novel, but I can't quite remember.

    Lucas has said that he wants there to be echos between the trilogies.
    In ANH did a planet get invaded? Admittedly, one got destroyed, but not claimed back at the end of the film, I think. In ESB did a war begin? Did the Empire begin to crumble? Did some evil group show plans for an ultimate weapon? No. There are smilarities between the sagas, yes. But there are plenty of differences.

    Ever since ANH's rerelease ('78,'79?) People have known that there were 3 episodes before it. So even when watching ESB and ROTJ, you knew (upon first viewing) that if there is a main character to the whole saga, it's not Luke. He obviously hasn't done anything of galactic importance before ANH, so it must be another.

    What next? Oh yes, the point of my post! :p
    I have to say I agree with others. If you don't like ROTJ, don't watch it. If you don't like EU, don't read it. And if you don't like the Prequels, don't watch them.

    Enjoy the Star Wars Trilogy! :D
  9. Darth_LoCo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    If anything, I find that the prequels are making the OT MORE enjoyable for me than it was before. Certain scenes and certain lines of dialogue mean so much more now that I have more of the backstory.

    I do not think that the new movies are quite in the same league overall as the OT, but they are serving their purpose of providing a lot of missing information. And we still have Episode III to go. I'm glad the prequels are being made.
  10. Rupert_Pupkin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 3
    Lucas is an idiot if he destroys the original trilogy anymore.
  11. GrandMoffTarkin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 5
    If you define the prequels as "destroying the original trilogy", then may I suggest that in about 2 years, 6 months you unplug your TV, disconnect your modem and not leave the house...

    Just a suggestion of course. ;)
  12. SPECTOR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    Then don't watch the movies. duh.
  13. LukeTrue1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    All I'm saying is that the inconsistencies are there, whether you acknowledge them or not and they detract from the Original Trilogy.
  14. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    There are no inconsistencies, and they don't detract anything. I'm sorry if you feel that way.
  15. LukeTrue1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    It's not the fact that he is adding. It's the fact that what he is adding is taking away from the Original Trilogy. For example, there is talk that Lucas will go into ESB and insert a picture of Natalie Portman in the Black Globe thing that Vader is sitting in when an officer comes to get his attention. It is clear that many of you on this board don't have a problem with that but I do. I guess you guys also won't mind if Lucas inserts Mace Windu, Qui-gon, that purple Jedi guy and Jar Jar at the end of ROTJ when Luke is looking at the spirits. But this is OK right? Right...
  16. LukeTrue1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Thank you for the honesty. The new films simply are NOT on the level of the Original...PERIOD.
  17. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    The OT is only ruined if you want it to be ruined.
  18. marqc4 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Yo, Puppet, calm down. I think that it is you who is overanalyzing. This is a message board, and people are allowed to voice their opinions about anything they want. For example, I do not agree with your assessment. First, there can be no denying that these PT movies are no where near as good as the OT. I do not like everything that GL does, But as a fan of the series I must watch. Hell, I even watched Batman and Robin and that movie SUCKED. But I did love the first two Batman movies. Listen, the dialogue is pretty much trash and "I truly, really, deeply..." believe that. I mean, he is really dumbing down the story which is his right. However, it is rather lazy to me. I think he is selling this more on his new special effects than on anything else. The story consists of many holes because the writing is not as crisp. The PT dialogue is on par with ANH, another SW movie that GL wrote the screenplay for. However, ESB and ROTJ, the deeper movies in the series, had their screenplay written by Lawrence Kasdan(Michigan Grad, saw him at my graduation) and co. and they were fuller scripts that developed better stories. Yes, I know that PT shows the Politics and some back stories, but it DOES sound really cheesy. I mean, who believed that Anakin was having a nightmare. That sucked. It's true. Just saying. Also, if the SW saga was about Vader, then GL messed up showing that in the movie. It is Luke who grows through the OT and it is Luke who puts everything in order, not Anakin. Luke has shown the MOST growth out of all characters in either trilogy thus far. ANd he originally planned a 9-part saga, 7 stories (assuming EpIII) in which Luke appears. Like it or not, Luke becomes the central character. The offspring that could destroy the Empire, and the Sith while putting the Galaxy in its proper order. Watch OT if you do not believe, especially ESB and ROTJ in which this is mentioned. The similarities between the PT and OT are reminding me of Back to the Future with the Mcfly's and Biff's family. Everybody is just very high on AOTC right now because it has only been three weeks. People were high on TPM too, but overall the movie wasn't that good, it was just Star Wars. I saw it more than once in the theater and at home. However, when I want to watch a SW movie, I DO NOT watch TPM. Just because I cringe an awful lot due to the dialogue and acting and story. Just an opinion, I don't need to be attacked because it is really not necessary. I still have the right to watch any movie I want and say if they sucked or not. I mean, the reviews of these movies are not good, but the reviews of the OT were stellar. Facts don't lie...don't spin this the wrong way. It seems as if it is the pro PT crowd who is trying to make the movies what they are not. This is an OT board, so if you don't like the topic, don't read it (just a joke, hahahaha). Anyway, just MY OPINION! and "Wars not make one great." Remember that...
  19. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    The OT did not receive such stellar reviews. Like the PT, reviews were mixed. Take this as an example:

    ""The Empire Strikes Back" has no plot structure, no character studies let alone character development, no emotional or philosophical point to make. It has no original vision of the future, which is depicted as a pastiche of other junk-culture formulae, such as the western, the costume epic and the Would War II movie. Its specialty is "special effects" or visual tricks, some of which are playful, imaginative and impressive, but others of which have become space-movie clichés."

    -Judith Martin
    Washington Post
    May 23, 1980

  20. darthdiggler75 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2000
    star 1
    vader, vader, vader.....he's why the original was so good...... it's his story, and the PT are nice but the OT are better, if only because they are the ones a good many of us grew up with.
  21. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    Where is Judith Martin today?






    'Nuff said! ;)
  22. marqc4 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Yeah, just because one inept, unheard of reviewer did just one movie is not proof of anything. Besides, respected reviewers, such as ones done in the TV guide, give those Star Wars movies four stars. Newspapers do as well. Sorry for the use of stone cold facts. I'll say it again, Vader was the coolest villian I have ever seen in a movie or set of movies. However, the OT is about Luke's Growth, hence Ep IV entitled "A New Hope". That wasn't about Vader. It was about Luke. ESB was about Vader's search for Luke and Luke's training as a Jedi. Return of the Jedi was about Luke becoming a Jedi and turning Anakin. Yoda told Luke that he would be the last of the Jedi, which means he foresaw Luke defeating the sith the way he did (by not being turned to the dark side). PT is about Anakin, fine, but that is 20 YEARS after the fact! PT: Anakin, End of the Republic and Jedi, OT: Luke, return of Republic and Jedi
  23. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Earlier in this thread Ruper_Pumpkin called Lucas an idiot.

    To that I respond with: [face_plain]









    ST
  24. Sketcher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2002
    star 1

    dude you're getting a lot of grief.

    lets look at it this way. a friend of your family took you aside and explained the lifestory of your parents . is he gonna use every person and every detail in his story that existed? No he is he going to make it simple and understanble so you can understand what had happened?

    as for the 3po concern. him and rd oviously get a memoey wipe. remember 20 years pass between E3 and ANH so people are bound to not recognize other people (especially numerous droid they have barely had any time with) and remember every detail of their past ten years.
  25. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    There aren't any inconsistencies between the PT and the OT. Just because everything that every character knows about something isn't mentioned in every film, that doesn't = an inconsistency. Qui Gon, "padawan", and the midichloreans weren't mentioned in the OT because they weren't essential to the story. Lucas knows his films better than you do. If you think there's an inconsistency then you're just not putting enough thought into it.
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