Lucas Ruining Original Trilogy

hey why do people listen to film critics? all they are is just one person's opinion. i think it's kinda pointless. and wasn't han getting out his gun before greedo fired?

as for GL changing his vision with the SE. all i see are tiny improvemnets; geedo, cloud city, death star explosion, etc. stuff that if GL had thought of at the time or if he had the time back then he would have done those things. the SE's just a small improvements in the movies' appearances to keep them timeless. GL's not changing the story. it's still about luke and anakin's lives.

also i read in one of the insiders that the cantina scene was difficult to get done. that's why you see a hairy arm on the floor instead of an Aqualish's arm after obi slices it off.

 

exactly....he isnt changing the story, or ruining the magic for that matter...he is indeed making them timeless by giving audiences something to marvel at. Making something fresh with new ingredients doesnt mean your making it bad, or ruining its heart...

The archival editions will prove to people how great an idea it was to revisit the OT with great new additions and fixes.

 

see JBfett, that's what I'm talking about. Personal attacks. Not necessary. This is a messge board that is available for people to voice opinions so we all could see the difference. If Luketrue1 thinks that the OT is being ruined, he is on the correct board. For you to call someone ignorant and a fanboy or call them sad is truly unfortunate. I'm sure you have the ability to make a better argument. A person who insults has nothing better to say. Or in our speak, "the quick and easy path it is." You wouldn't like it if I called you a GL concubine now would you? I didn't think so. Even if I thought you sounded like one I wouldnt say it, and I don't think respectable people on this board would. However, there are those who feel big talking junk over the internet sitting behind a screenname and keyboard. Now THAT'S sad. Let's stick to the topic at hand next time, huh? IF nothing respectable or noteworthy to say, don't post anything. Especially if it only makes you feel better about yourself. There are kids reading you know, doesn't mean you have to act like one

 

I don't understand how a sequel (or prequel) can work retroactively to destroy something that has come before it. The original trilogy of films still exist and you can watch them on their own, ignoring the PT.

That being said, I don't care much for the PT so far either. One thing PT-haters must remember is that most of the young moviegoing audience has been raised on Mortal Combat and will only remember the "badass" parts of the films (Maul fight, Yoda fight, Windu fight, etc.) and not the character development. I can't stand TPM becuase it's a bad film. The pestilence of Jar Jar, the overuse of CGI (which still looks more rubbery than masks - sorry kids), Natalie Portman's lack of presence, etc. (It should be noted here that I enjoyed most of AOTC.)

These films have been made by a man who runs an empire of people who are terrified of going against him. A friend of mine in the movie business told me that many people at ILM and LFL really despised Jar Jar and thought he was a terrible idea but were afraid to say anything lest they get fired. As a filmmaker, I know that when you get too close to a project and don't step back and consider it, you usually make a subpar film. Such is the case with Supreme Chancellor Lucas. The first two films were good because they HAD to be. No one had done anything like Star Wars before and no one had made a sequel to a film like that before. GL had to use every bit of his wits and abilities to make these films appeal to ALL people, not just those 12 and under. Lucas has started to get lazy with his storytelling and claims that he wants the themes to rhyme between the PT and the OT. Sorry guys, I know you bought that whole line about rhyming (don't we all want to believe Uncle George?), but it's really just LAZY and BAD storytelling. Very little growth and very little innovation with the new films.

But, that being said, the PT isn't finished and shouldn't be judged too harshly just yet. Let's give GL some room to breathe. Besides, you don't go to a movie theater to see art anyway. Read a book or go to a museum for that. Hollywood films are entertainment and if you want to protest bad filmmaking, hit them in the only place they care about - their bottom lines. Don't go see 'em!

 

"you don't go to a movie to see art..."

excuse me?
what, exactly do you think art is?
the best depiction of art in a film that i've seen in the theater was bringing out the dead. this movie was true art in motion, but upon repeat viewings i found the story to be a little grim for my tastes.
true, most modern filmmakers do not consider the artistic aspects of filmmaking, but that doesn't mean the movies aren't art, it just means they're not good art.
forgive my rant, and i do agree with much of your post, but not all of it, and this particular notion i had to contest.

 

Quote:
"This is wrong. Same for LukeTrue's assertion that "padawan" is new for the prequels. "Padawan" had been around in various versions of the Star Wars (1977) draft since the beginning.

I'm not arguing that point, I'm just saying that there was no reason for the word "padawan" to be mentioned in the OT.

LukeTrue1, nothing that your talking about constitutes and inconsistency. We're talking about the final prints of the films.Yeah Lucas changd things between the originals and the SEs and the original scripts and the movies. That has nothing to do with supposed inconsistencies in the final product.

Quote:
, respected film critics have given the OT very high marks.

Not really. Not at the time they were released. Actually, AOTC is the highest rated movie of the series.

Quote:
"All I've been saying on this board is that there are undeniable inconsistencies. There's nothing subjective about that."

Well yes there is, actually. I think the problem you have is that you're confused in the definition of 'inconsistency'. Yes Lucas cahnged some things for the special edition, but no one's talking about that. And no, you're no the only one with the "cohones" to suggest that there arer inconsistecies. This forum's full of people who don't put any thought into the films and think there are inconsistencies.

 

The movies are fun for what they are. I Am a lifelong fan and sure, I have a few gripes about the entire saga but for the most part, GL has done a wonderful job in giving us another world to explore. My personal opinion is that some people take this thing WAY too seriously. With all of the conflict and bad things happening in "real" life, I find it very odd that people would get so animated over a series of movies. I for one do not feel that Lucas has ruined his original vision, which was to make money entertaining a large group of people. Did Indiana Jones ruin SW? Did SW ruin American Graffitti. Lighten up and enjoy this for what it is, an escape from the madness that permeates our everyday lives.
I admitt, I spend alot of time watching SW, I spend a lot of time contemplating the story and even more time on my computer discussing as much about it as I and others can come up with.
All I can say is...if you do not like what GL has done with HIS story, find some one to bankroll you and create your own vision.But in the end it will be the same a GL's...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
money,money money.

Edited to prevent scrolling

 

"Now all of a sudden Star Wars has nothing to do with Luke Skywalker, the same character that the novel entitled ??Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker??, which was written by Lucas, is named after."

FYI the novelisation was actually ghost-written, by Alan Dean Foster.

 

LukeTrue1 -

Wow. Sit down for a minute. Take a few deep breaths, my friend.

"All I've been saying on this board is that there are undeniable inconsistencies. There's nothing subjective about that."


But, you see - this IS a matter of opinion. I think one of the reasons that some people, myself included, have taken exception to your statements is that you present them as absolute truth and it is implicit in your words that anyone who disagrees with you is an utter moron. There is a big difference between "I disagree with you" and "you're wrong - PERIOD".

We all know to which inconsistencies you refer. They have been debated in these forums time and time again and opinions of them vary from person to person. Much of it is all speculation, at this point. Until we see Episode III, we have no idea what may happen to change our perception of everything that has been revealed in all of the films.

"If this upsets others then I apologize informing you that 2+2=4."

2 rabbits + 2 rabbits will eventually equal 75 rabbits.

"As for Lucas changing things for continuity. THIS MY VERY POINT. How are you going to use new stories as a basis to patch up the ones that they are based on?"

Writers do this constantly. Very few writers create a story from the very beginning to the very end, word perfect, without making changes as they go along. They come up with outlines, random scenes, ect and patch it all together, ironing out the seams. Not only that, but the PT isn't "based" on the OT so much as it is a part of it. The OT was simply produced first and therefore, the small details of it were defined first, leaving us to speculate about what had happened in the past. Now that the past is being presented for us, many fans find it to be drastically different than their speculation. This is bound to happen. Personally, I am pleasantly surprised to find that the PT isn't exactly what I expected. Had it been so, I would most likely be bored with it.

"(the 'rhyming of themes' theory concedes this point')"

This isn't a "theory". Lucas himself has said that this is one of the structures that he employs. You may not like it, but it is part of the framework of the Star Wars Saga. I happen to love it in the films, just as I love it in Beowulf and Le Mort D'Arthur and many other mythic tales. It works for me.

"Is it OK for Francis Ford Copolla to go back into the Godfaher pt 2 + 1 and "change a few elements" so that they are in allignment with the Godfather III which nearly everyone in the world agrees was not up to par with its predecessors? But it'll be alright as long as everything fits into one nice coninuity package right?! No, it is not right."

We're not talking about The Godfather. We're talking about Star Wars. A very different beast. And again, saying "No, it is not right" seems a bit presumptuous to me. Who are we to say if it is wrong for an artist to touch up their work in the way that they see fit? I've never met a critic who said that DaVinci ruined the Mona Lisa by painting over her necklace. He decided that he prefered the painting without it, so he changed it. It's his right to do so.

"Just because it is Copololla's right as it is GL's to tinker it does not make it right, not when it detracts from the original work."

Again, this is a matter of opinion. For you, it may detract from the power of the work. For others it may enhance it. Either way, the vision of the artist is what is key. George is more concerned with future generations who may watch the Star Wars Saga, and less concerned with those who grew up on it in the 70's & 80's. This may piss off many in my generation, but I understand his motivations. He would rather make the story more enduring than please the first generatoin of fans.

"If people on this board are upset with the fact that I'm the only one with the cajones to write the truth that GL didn't really have this whole saga planned as much as he would like you to believe then just say so. All I'm asking for is honesty."

As others have said

 

Well, I have a life. And I'll be more than happy to accept the basher title. yes I'm a basher. I come to the force.net because I like the star wars universe. I work on my 3D models of Star Wars stuff and work on my little fan film. Here is a novel idea for you gushers (that is the first time I have useed that term). I try to refrain from it because it so juvenille to throw out the lable and not be able to handle the argument. The truth is we all come here for spirited debate. If you GL worshipers don't like it, instead of chastising us, why don't you just ignore it and not respond. Because you are just as unable. So you are just as much without a life.

With that being said, let me lay down my contribution. The contridictions as I see them. (takes a deep breath)

Obi Wan "When I first met your father, he was already a great pilot. I was suprised at how much the force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi" blah bah..thought I could do as good a job as Yoda.

Now if review the events of TPM, and your Obi-Wan (or your writing a script) is the above quote how you would choose to paraphrase to Luke how you first met his father. I think not. Obi Wan didn't want the job, didn't think he should even be trained as a Jedi. I wonder what ever happened to POD racing on Tatooine. Must have went out with the emporer, and been replaced by pidly T16 canyon racing and wamprat bullseyeing. Oh the things bored moisture farmer kids do on weekends.

Obi-Wan "he was a good friend." this is certainly nitpicking, but bears mentioning. When the hell have Obi-Wan and Anakin ever been friends

Owen as Anakin's stepbrother. Hated it. Stupid attempt at tying TPM, and the new immacualte conception, to the OT.

C3PO: "I'm not even sure what planet we're on?" or "My first job was programming binary load lifters, quite similiar to your vaporators in most respects."

I guess he failed to mention that job he had actually working on vaporators as a resident of the same hovel he was now being sold into. I know, he had a merory wipe when he went to live on Alderaan. How convienent.

The Death Star, a tale of two novels. Brain Child of Grand Moff Tarkin (ANH) or the Geonosians? (AOTC). Both the current Star Wars Databank and the Visual Dictionary of Star Wars list it as the brainchild of Grand Moff Tarkin. Who was probably about 20 or less in AOTC.


ok, I'm bored now.. I'm going to bed I will continue this tomorrow with the stupidy of the Ewok concept. How, given applied physics, sticks and stones don't break your bones when your wearing battle armor, unless you live in GL's universe. There they elect Queens.

Goodnite

 

Rikalonius,

"Here is a novel idea for you gushers (that is the first time I have useed that term). I try to refrain from it because it so juvenille to throw out the lable and not be able to handle the argument."

I really don't think that "bashers" or "gushers" are all that important to this issue. In my eye, we are debating the notion that the PT "ruins" the OT. I don't see why either side of this debate needs one of the aforementioned labels.

"The truth is we all come here for spirited debate. If you GL worshipers don't like it, instead of chastising us, why don't you just ignore it and not respond."

This is a contradiction to me. Isn't the point of spirited debate to refute claims with which you disagree? Ignoring it and not responding doesn't seem to encapsulate "debate", if you ask me.

"Obi Wan 'When I first met your father, he was already a great pilot. I was suprised at how much the force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi' blah bah..thought I could do as good a job as Yoda.

Now if review the events of TPM, and your Obi-Wan (or your writing a script) is the above quote how you would choose to paraphrase to Luke how you first met his father. I think not. Obi Wan didn't want the job, didn't think he should even be trained as a Jedi."

What about Obi's line "I will train him. With or without the approval of the council."? That, to me, is a clear indication that he is taking it upon himself to train him. In ANH, he doesn't give his REASONS for taking up Anakin's training but I see no reason why he should have, at the time. Remember that Kenobi most likely blames himself for Anakin's downfall. It works for me.

"I wonder what ever happened to POD racing on Tatooine. Must have went out with the emporer, and been replaced by pidly T16 canyon racing and wamprat bullseyeing. Oh the things bored moisture farmer kids do on weekends."

Who said that there is no podracing on Tatooine in the OT? Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean that it isn't there.

"Obi-Wan 'he was a good friend.' this is certainly nitpicking, but bears mentioning. When the hell have Obi-Wan and Anakin ever been friends"

Yes, it's nitpicking, but I can see your point with this one. Other than a few short bits in AOTC, we really don't see much of a solid friendship between the two. I suppose that we may see more of this in Episode III, but that is unlikely. Mostly, I suppose that viewers can imagine that this developed between TPM and AOTC, but I admit that this is reaching.

"Owen as Anakin's stepbrother. Hated it. Stupid attempt at tying TPM, and the new immacualte conception, to the OT."

I rather liked this. It helps to make Luke's eventual placement with Owen and Beru make sense, in context of the overall story.

"C3PO: 'I'm not even sure what planet we're on?' or 'My first job was programming binary load lifters, quite similiar to your vaporators in most respects.'

I guess he failed to mention that job he had actually working on vaporators as a resident of the same hovel he was now being sold into. I know, he had a merory wipe when he went to live on Alderaan. How convienent."

Convenient, yes - but droid memory wipes have been mentioned since the early scenes of ANH. You can't really claim that it's a surprise that 3-PO receives a memory wipe or even that it is simply a way to cover up plot holes. While that may be the case, it works fine in context. After watching 3-PO have his memory erased in III, Owen's threat of doing so in ANH will be more ominous.

"The Death Star, a tale of two novels. Brain Child of Grand Moff Tarkin (ANH) or the Geonosians? (AOTC). Both the current Star Wars Databank and the Visual Dictionary of Star Wars list it as the brainchild of Grand Moff Tarkin. Who was probably about 20 or less in AOTC."

I don't believe that any of the films mentioned it as being Tarkin's "brainchild", specifically. Not to mention that we still don't know what bits we may see of Tarkin in Episode III. This really isn't a plothole, in my opinion.


"

 

WOW...too much...

I could respond with an intelligent comment but why bother.

*shakes head*

This world truly is filled with sad, sad people.

 

Marqc4, Rik, and Darth, thank you for being strong and not succombing to Lucas Groupie Syndrome, a problem a think is long over due for a thesis report.
I and others who share my sentiments are not Lucas bashers for pointing out undeniable truths as it relates to Star Wars. The number one truth being that GL makes it up as he goes along and that is why the PT isn't meshing well with the OT(I'm being polite). But you who suffer from the Syndrome are another animal all together. You wish to have it both ways. You believe it is OK that Lucas pulls it out of his A$$ because that is his right, yet at the same time you support his claim that this grand story of his was developed a long time ago. It wasn't. If it were we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would be no inconcistencies( yes I do know the definition of the word) to discuss.
And me stating that there are inconsistencies is NOT an OPINION it is a FACT. I just cannot come to grips with why you people would pretend that this isn't the case when it is as clear as the fact that Watto is Leia's grandfather. This is what bothers me.
Darth, I've long since come to the conslusion that I'll probably have to ignore the PT but that is not why I post here( On the Classic Trilogy Page). I post because I am shocked that there are fans who will fight to the death for GL as if they are on his payroll or in his bedsheets in order to justify his PT's sloppy storytelling. If you like the PT fine, I like lightsabres too, especially when Yoda totes one, but I don't like them enough to make me lose all of my common sense, logic, and reasoning. This is ultimately what has hurt the OT for me, people pretending as if the PT can possibly measure up to it.

Rik, you think Ewoks are bad? Well I've got an important question for you; have you ever heard of Gungans?

 

To me the Gungans are cool, sorry. It is Jar Jar I hate, and it is Lucas being a good visionary again and coming up with a farily cool race then botching it up by making their representative Jar Jar. This is the difference, in my opinion, between making a solid story and disney'ing up. GL said he wanted a war and peace like battle between the battle droids and the Gungans. Cool, I'm all for epic confrontations. But this same thing that happened in ROTJ with the Ewoks. You can't get beyond applied physics. yes, I am nitpicking, but that is what we are here for. In fact, ROTJ and TPM follow such similiar courses.

Anyway, Gungans at least had weapons capable of defeating their enemies. So I'm psyched up as I watch the trailers for TPM and I see all these battle droids lining up. I think this is going to be awesome. But because GL isn't a good writer, and he is in general a peacenick and a an admitted Buddhist, he screws it all up by making battle droids into juvenilles. "Roger Roger" "Uhhhh What planet are you taking them too." They made stormtroopers look like Navy Seals. Then he further befuddles the possibility of a great battle with General Jar Jar. Any race's Patriarch who would put a clumsy teenager in charge of their army deserves to be wiped from the planet. Thank Ottha Gunga for Captain Tarples. I digress. I liked the Gungans. I like playing them in Battlegrounds.

As for the Ewoks. I won't say I hate them, but the whole thing was written badly. Lucas is just not willing to have much death on the battlefield. That is why he invented the battledroid in the first place. So if Wookies had taken the place of Ewoks then it would have been a whole lot bloodier. That fact is, most sensible people aren't going to buy the little furry creatures with spears taking on "An entire legion of my best troops." Some might try and compare it to Blood River, where Shaka Zulu defeated the British. But you would have to advance the British into todays century. A thousand plains hunters, with no armor carrying spears and sings versus battalion of trained infantry with machine guns and kevlar armor backed up by a couple platoons of Chieftan Tanks. Not in a million years, even if you through them a half a dozen French Foriegn Legioneres with modern weapons.

A wookie revolt would have been much better. Since they are rumored to have been the ones enslaved to build the Death Star. Wookies had knowledge of technology and could have turned would little they could get into more realistic weapons. Plus they could have pulled a Stormtroopers arm out. The fact that GL, if I remember right, only showed 1 Ewok meet his end is testiment to how GL likes his battles. Even amongst fans who had trouble accepting Anakin's slashing Geneosan warriors. C'mon man he was defending himself. Ok, I thik I've blabbed enough for this session.

 

to luketrue or trueluke...or whatever...to the author of this thread...there...

i suggest that you disregard the prequels as starwars movies altogether. i assure you, this will do no harm to anyone. i'm not trying to offend you or to bash...or whatever. it seems like you are truly disappointed in the creation of the prequels and disappointed in lucas as well. there's nothing wrong with that. the classiscs are always going to be there. if you don't like the special editions. the originals are there as well. keep those close to your heart. i know for sure that if i felt the way you did, i would do just that. the thing is, i love the prequels as much as i love the classics. don't get me wrong here. i'm not trying to tell you what to do. this is merely a suggestion and a damn good one at that. the classics will never die. i'm sorry to read that you are not as thrilled as i am with the prequels, but hey...we're still starwars fans...with different ideas.

cheers!

 

I'm not going to argue with this opinion or that over which trilogy is superior. As I have stated on other topics, my feelings on the two trilogies are mixed. Especially since my most favorite and least favorite SW movie are from the Original Trilogy.

All I can say is that as much as I loved and enjoyed the Original Trilogy, the Prequel Trilogy, so far, has enriched the story even more for me.

Anyone can spend hours pointing out this bad dialogue, plot inconsistency or characterization. If you don't like the direction that the story is going - fine. Okay. I won't get into a sweat over it. But as far as I'm concerned, the entire saga is absolutely marvelous and I'm enjoying every moment of it.

 

>In the OT when Obi Wan speaks to Luke about his father Anakin Skywalker, he tells him that when he met his father he was impressed by his skills as a pilot but was amazed with how strong he was in the force. At no point did he mention anything about him being a little boy.

-Right, thus the assumption is that Anakin was born as an 18-year-old. Geez.

>He said that he took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, he told Luke he thought he could teach Anakin as well as Yoda taught him.

-All true.

>At NO point did he mention Qui-gon because Qui-gon did not exist until a few years ago when Lucas sat down to write the new episodes.

-How does not mentioning something mean that it can't exist? You're saying that Lucas should have had all the PT scripts written by 1977. Sorry, but that's just stupid. Not mentioning Qui-Gon is not an inconsistency.

>Also in the OT Anakin was referred to as Obi-wan?s apprentice, not young padawan, this is also because the term never existed until Lucas began writing the PT pretending as if we?d be too drunk off of the special effects and Darth Maul?s double bladed lightsabre to notice.

-Obi-Wan calls Anakin his apprentice and his padawan. It's common to have two words for the same thing. I would imagine that padawan is more a Jedi term and not widely known.

OBI-WAN: Darth Vader, a young padawan of mine...
LUKE: A padawan? What's that?
OBI-WAN: Pupil, apprenctice.
LUKE: Then why didn't you just say so?

Whether Lucas thought the term up in 1998 or 1928 is irrelevant.

>Hey it?s no problem, Lucas created Star Wars so he can do whatever he wants right? Right, but it is sad to see that he has lost his touch and the OT is suffering as a result of that. Because he is writing as he is going along 20 years after the OT he is making a mockery of it in the process. Yeah I know it sounds harsh but it?s the truth.

-Nothing in this post shows any inconsistency.

I skip the midiclorian bit because I have no idea what you are talking about.

>...Quick examples, Anakin blows up a space station in TPM for no other reason than because Luke blew up the Death Star in ANH.

-I fail to see your logic here. Anakin goes in the pod races. Luke drives a landspeeder. They both grow up on Tatooine. So? Because Anakin blew up a ship, Luke never can?

>Anakin builds Threepio for no other reason than Threepio comes into Luke?s possession in ANH. But come on people, how do you figure Anakin build Threepio, a protocol droid , when there are NUMEROUS protocol droids in the OT. What, did he get a Corellian Patent on the invention?!

-Maybe he had a build a protocal droid kit? He did specifically say that he built a protocal droid. He also built a pod racer. I know people who build furniture to look just like famous furniture. What's the problem? And you're looking at it backwards. Anakin builds 3P0 and because of that the droid gets passed to Padme, and eventually to her daughter, and then ends up in Luke's hands when Leia tries to visit Ben. It all makes sense.

>Anakin has a vision about a loved one being in pain in AOTC for no other reason than because Luke had one in ESB.

-Jedi have visions.

>This is hurting Star Wars. We, lovers of the Original Trilogy enjoy it because it is something magical that wasn?t just about Lightsabre duels and special effects, it had compelling writing and storytelling, that taught us about life.

-Please speak for yourself. It's possible that others feel that way about the PT. If you don't - fine. But don't assume that only people that feel as you do are lovers of the OT. That is what you are insinuating.

>These new films are nothing but a pale imitation of what the OT stood for and they detract from them greatly.

-It's too bad you feel that way. I'm sorry you don't like the new films.

>Now all of a sudden Star Wars has nothing to do with Luke Skywalker, the same character that the novel entitled ??Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker??, which was written by Lucas, is named after.

-The saga is ultimately ab

 

"Is it OK for Francis Ford Copolla to go back into the Godfaher pt 2 + 1 and "change a few elements" so that they are in allignment with the Godfather III which nearly everyone in the world agrees was not up to par with its predecessors? But it'll be alright as long as everything fits into one nice coninuity package right?! No, it is not right."

We're not talking about The Godfather. We're talking about Star Wars. A very different beast. And again, saying "No, it is not right" seems a bit presumptuous to me. Who are we to say if it is wrong for an artist to touch up their work in the way that they see fit? I've never met a critic who said that DaVinci ruined the Mona Lisa by painting over her necklace. He decided that he prefered the painting without it, so he changed it. It's his right to do so.

Interesting analogy CwrnPuppet, but I wouldn't compare the SE with Mona Lisa's necklace. I would rather say that the SE is the moustache of Star Wars. I mean, what if Leonardo daVinci came back and insisted that Mona Lisa wouldn't be finished until he had added a moustache? He may have the right to do so, but that doesn't mean he is right in doing so. There's a difference between what you can do and what you ought or ought not to do. Knowing that is the true trademark of a writer/artist/painter.
As a Star Wars purist, I find the very thought of tampering with Star Wars repulsive. The OT is perfect the way it is. The PT on the other hand... needs to be redone, either partially or completely. With a better director, better script, less CGI, no kids, no Jar Jar, no pod race, et cetera, the PT could actually become a classic, on par with the OT. And that's what we all want, that the OT should set the standard for what Star Wars is. The PT should adjust after the OT, not the other way around. All Star Wars fans would benefit from such a policy. Alas, Darth Lucas seems to think CGI = quality. Isn't Star Wars supposed to be more than just a visual treat? Shouldn't the PT at least have a decent story, and not this childish stuff? Where is the heart and the soul? If Darth Lucas tries to cut out the heart of the OT by butchering and distorting the classic scenes, he will find that the fanbase will rapidly dwindle into near nothingness.

 

*Bows down to CwrnPuppet*

I have actually spent the last 20 minutes reading you refute everything the original poster said and I must admit I could not have said things better myself! Brilliant Work! (HeHe)



~ICeBReaKeR
Custom Prop Builder and Collector
His abilities have made him...arrogant

 

I didn't read the whole thread but these complaints are pretty weak. Hopefully he was set straight.

 

Actually, ?artists? modifying their work is nothing new. Consider in the world of music; over a period of several years, Beethoven twice revised his only opera, Fidelio, for a total of three different versions. Interestingly, the final version was the most popular in Beethoven?s time, and it is that version that is frequently, if not always, performed today.

Additionally, a group of Romantic composers known as ?The Russian Five? (Balakirev, Cui, Borodin, Musorgsky, and Rimsky-Korsakov) frequently rewrote their own, as well as each other?s works. In many of these instances, the original scores were destroyed and we now have no record of the original orchestration! Certainly, from a historical standpoint, this is quite a shame, as music aficionados have no way of listening to and evaluating the original compositions.

In the case of movies, altering the original is even more of a bad idea, in my opinion. Even though a motion picture has one or two people that were the driving force of the ?work,? hundreds of people contributed to the film. Yet most, if not all of these people presumably have no say in regards to "revisions" made by a director or producer.

It is my contention that at the very least, the originals should be made available for reasons of posterity, regardless of whatever future revisions are made.

 

Im about to get started...
I hope I don't provoke a personal attack on myself, but The OT is definetly better than the PT, no matter what happens in ep.III there is nothing that can redeem the mistakes of TPM, which was like watching an episode of the teletubies where a stupid kid wins a little race, and theres a commercial break for a cool sabre fight.
AOTC had horrible dialogue, and I remember unconsciously having skipped all of it except the fett fight, clone counter attack, and yoda fight... because no ammount of CG can save the rest of that movie. (I was watching it on my PC how i got it is my business)
I think GL is obviously a liberal, and he's going to ruin the OT and release it for DVD as GL's cut of the OT, and never release footage of the originals because its "his vision"
GL = Potsmoking Hippie, who wants to screw up a good thing, by removing all violence, making it PC, and putting fuzzy kind characters in so disney can have them walk around at disneyland...
GL is taking Vader and turning him into a misunderstood little boy. this once Hardcore evil henchmen, has become a little boy who loves mommy, is horrible with girls (GOD KNOWS WHERE THEY FALL IN LOVE IN EITHER MOVIE) and is a really crappy sabre fighter who could never fight luke skywalker or think up clever things to say in a duel... GL's lack of a stomach has ruined some good opportunities for an actual eventful film...
YES- sticks wont kill a man wearing anything thicker than a T shirt, unless he falls at a certain angle, and a severred limb does bleed A WHOLE BUNCH, and even if it was cotterized, why did the arm bleed in ANH???
anakin, just happens to get in a fighter and end up in the right place in the right time on the control ship??? that was STUPID. can you say DISNEY??? no ammount of CGI or sabre fighting is going to keep PT from anihilating star wars... I dont think I will watch Ep.3
oh heres something for the liberal "change all you want to the OT, PT is great" GL worshipers who are waiting to quote me and flame everything:

fighting on the internet is like playing in the special olympics, win or lose, you are still retarded. Thank you, I am the greatest!

 

I have never encountered such an attitude towards the prequels until I came to this forum. I am still astonished and dumbfounded by it, and there is only one person I know in real life who thinks this way as well. Actually, two people I know don't care for either prequel but neither of them think that the OT is suffering as a result of their addition to the saga.

I for one used to be a fan of the EU. I couldn't get enough of the various adventures with my favortie characters Han, Luke, Leia, R2, Chewie... heck even Corran Horn, Mara Jade... etc etc. I loved getting to explore new parts of the galaxy even if it was someone other than Lucas navigating through the vast SW universe.

Perhaps this is why I like the Prequel trilogy so much... ultimately it comes down to two things:

a) More adventures in that Galaxy far far away
b) Questions raised in the Original Trilogy are answered in the Prequel Trilogy

I'm not going to say that I think that the prequels are as good as the original movies or that they are worse, that is not the point of this post in this thread. I will say that I enjoy every single one of the Star Wars films, to varying degrees, but overall I'm in it for the big picture. To me, Star Wars isn't 6 movies... it is one big long 12 hour movie made up of 6 parts. Some of the parts may be weaker than others and some of the stronger parts may have their weak points within their own two hour time frame, but overall, IMHO, it is a very strong, interesting story filled with interesting characters, ships, creatures, aliens, etc.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

 

Warsloth: Whoa, man. Use some sentence breaks or something. Every paragraph there is a run-on sentence.

Well, my opinions:
TPM was good, AOTC was great, ANH was good, ESB was great, ROTJ was great.
AOTC had plenty of "heart and soul". It also had some great dialog, and a few clunkers (like any SW movie, might I remind you)
TPM could have been better, but it did not ruin Star Wars or rape my childhood. (actually, it would have trouble doing the last since I was born two years after ROTJ was released)
The SEs had a few changes that I could do without, but since those are only a few minor scenes, I feel the good changes in the rest of the movie far outweigh the bad.

A couple points addressed in Warsloth's post:
and a severred limb does bleed A WHOLE BUNCH, and even if it was cotterized, why did the arm bleed in ANH???
Whoa. Chill. If this is enough to ruin Star Wars, heck, if this even factors in, then you need to straighten out your priorities. If that bothers you so much, then you probably hate the fact that the same thing happens in ESB and ROTJ. Lightsabers do cauterize wounds. As for why the ANH one bled, that was a mistake. The physics of lightsabers hadn't been completely worked out at that time. Every other slicing in the series has been bloodless, which leads one to believe that everything except one scene in ANH is wrong, or that the scene itself is wrong.

GL is taking Vader and turning him into a misunderstood little boy. this once Hardcore evil henchmen, has become a little boy who loves mommy
Hello, did you miss the point of ROTJ? Did you think that Anakin was evil from birth? Of course he was good once. He wasn't always Big Dude in Black. He was once a child (unless you thought he just skipped that age entirely). The point of the PT is how that little boy became the evil dude.

I think GL is obviously a liberal, and he's going to ruin the OT and release it for DVD as GL's cut of the OT, and never release footage of the originals because its "his vision"
Do you even know what a liberal is? What does any of that have to do with his political views?

GL = Potsmoking Hippie
Riiiight...I don't know where you pulled this one from (actually, I have a pretty good idea, but let's not go there)

the liberal "change all you want to the OT, PT is great" GL worshipers
Well, I am a liberal, and I like the PT, and I don't have a problem with most of the SE changes, but I certainly don't worship GL.

How exactly does the PT ruin the OT? The OT is so great, so how could some other movies tarnish that? You don't like the PT, fine, don't accept it as Star Wars. The only way that the new movies can ruin the old ones is if you let them. Say they're not canon, say they're an alternate universe, say whatever, but if you don't like them, you don't have to accept or watch them.

 

GL owns the SW universe, and wont say one way or another which EU or whatever is accepted and which is not (as if i was familiar with EU) he has declared that this is starwars, and that anakin is a complete wimp, "i killed them all, the women and the children" why didnt they show it??? and since the dialogue was soo bad they could have improved that part by saying "i killed them all, the women and the children, allthough the women and children were slower and made more noise, I found it equally satisfying"
Also for TPM why didn't they have a comperable force to fight the battle droids rather than a recap of endor?

(random point stone age siege equipment wont stop 20th century weaponry, how is it going to stop all that futuristic stuff???

Lucas needs to hand over star wars to someone who hasn't lost their mind with new fangled digital stuff, and concentrate on disney movies to pervert our youth..
in contrast to you hydrawhatsit.. I am a stand up conservative, and an epic should be preserved, and not marred by a senile halfwit. as for run ons... uh... your typing is girly... argue some more E-thug.
if anyone can tell me honestly, without just saying,"dont watch it" why TPM is good, and how the gay podrace and jar jar, make for a good film experience for those over 8 please do...
and for those of you like the hydronium guy refer to my last post, the last sentence