Lucas Ruining Original Trilogy

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LukeTrue1, Jun 8, 2002.

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  1. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Jedi_Master_Anakin,

    I just wanted to take a few minutes to respond to your criticisms of the SEs - please bear in mind that I respect your opinion, even in the areas in which we may disagree. ;c)

    1) Luke's pathetic scream in ESB. This added effect made his sacrificial leap away from the Dark Side less believable. It made it sou nd like Luke fell.

    I agree. I have no idea why this was added. I can't really imagine Lucas reviewing the films to decide what to spruce up and saying, "Man, does it twist my titties that Luke isn't screaming here - Let's add it in."

    2) Jabba in ANH. Looks way too CG.

    My major problems with this scene are the horrific errors in it: I think in a couple of places, Han's hand actually goes through Jabba. In context of the story, I feel that the scene is a nice touch, and I agree with the choice to add it; I just feel that it needs to be handled more adroitly. If they cleaned up the CGI, gave Jabba a bit more texture, and made sure that he seemed solid, heavy and above all, made sure that no objects passed though him; I would love this bit.

    3) Luke, Obi-Wan, and the droids entering into Mos-Eisley. Again looks obviously CG.

    Ehhh. This doesn't bother me one bit. With the exception of the very strange 2 seconds in which the worker droid klonks the hovering droid, I think that this scene is a vast improvement over the original. It gives us a much better concept of Mos Eisley and I think it looks rather nice.

    4) Han's changed statement in ROTJ from 'Trust me' to 'I can see a lot better'. This is obviously changed, you can see his mouth saying trust me but thats not what comes out. Its like editing a swear word on a TV release.

    Wow. This is really interesting. Somehow, I had never noticed that change. I have no idea why. I guess I'm slipping. But I will say that it really isn't such an important issue. I mean, come on: If you had seen the SE first, or if it was the only version ever to be made, do you really think you would say to yourself, "What Han said to Lando on the skiff was so LAME!"

    I doubt it. I agree that I see no need for the change and, seeing as you have pointed it out the original works better. But, really - who gives a mynock's kidney?

    5) Jedi Rocks..... The author of this song needs to be tortured for the rest of his/her pitiful existance. I was made stupider for listening to such utter crap.

    I love Lapti Nek. Love it. Love it. Love it. I've had sex to that song on repeat, just to give you an idea (and TMI, while we're at it).

    That said, while I missed it, I didn't really mind Jedi Rocks, aside from its insipid title. In fact, I rather like it. I can't tell you why. I have no valid reasons for my feelings on this subject. It just works for me.

    What doesn't work for me is the CGI in this scene. We need more skin textures, shading and shadows on those creatures and, for the love of God; I would really appreciate it if Sy Snootles would keep her lips away from the camera.

    I think what happened was that the animators & Lucas got carried away. They were so tickled with what they could make these animations do, that they went a bit overboard. But again, I really wouldn't have thought twice about this, had it been the only version I had seen.

    6) The closing scene in ROTJ. Its okay, and I like a few aspects of the idea, but I think they made it overdone. How the hell would the entire galaxy know that the Emperor died?

    I have to disagree with you strongly on this one. The Ewok celebration song always made me smile, but it was a bit too silly for the ending of such an epic. Furthermore, we needed to get a glimpse of how this feat affected the galaxy.

    As to how they could all suddenly know that the Emperor is dead, I don't think that it is much of a leap of faith to assume that word of such magnitude travels fast. How many people saw the second plane hit the WTC on CNN? Quite a few; and our tech is nothing next to that which they have in the SW galaxy. If
  2. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Daniel, thanks! There are times that I wish that I could do a temporary mind-wipe, just to experience the entire saga without any preconceptions...
  3. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Something is fishy with the Biggs scene. It's mildly incoherent. Does anyone know if a chunk of this scene was hacked out in a splice when the guy walks past the camera? The scene seems to be going somewhere when it suddenly ends with, "You'll do alright."

    What's up with that?


    The scene ends with Red Leader saying something about Luke's father that doesn't jibe with the fact that Vader is. So they chopped it out and made a cart pass to hide the edit.

    I think that, knowing that Biggs is in the battle and that he dies in it, it makes sense to want to call some attention to him. I also think that it makes sense to show Luke finally meeting up with Biggs again - after all, he talked about him throughout the first chunk of the film.

    I agree. This turns Biggs into more than just another name. You can see the friendship between Luke and him, and this makes his death much more meaningful.

    Still, the scene doesn't quite work. It seems forced, to me.

    I've always wondered what the film would be like, had the Biggs/Tatooine scenes been added back in. Never having seen them, I can't justifiably make a judgement on that, but it is an interesting thought to ponder.


    Good point. The reunion between Biggs and Luke on Yavin IV might feel less forced if that were the case, since you could tell why it was so great that they were meeting again.

    I've also wondered why they were taken out in the first place. Was the guy who played Biggs a horrid actor? Or was it felt that being too attached to Biggs as Luke's friend might dampen the high of the ending?

    I think it has to do with pacing. The events in the Blockade Runner and with the droids in the desert would have to be broken up by these scenes. Perhaps they felt that they didn't fit in. I hope they reincorporate them for the DVD.
  4. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I don't feel that strongly about any SE changes enough to respond, except the "Bring my shuttle" change. That line was delivered so well, you could just feel the anger and confusion that Vader felt. There was no need to give a detailed log of his journey to the Star Destroyer along with that lame dialog.

    Overall, I prefer the originals to the SE. If they just stuck to simple things like backgrounds and slightly impproved FX it would be one thing but changing dialogue and plot points just sucks.
  5. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    I agree pamdebra. I think that things like the THX versions although I don't own them, is just fine. Because sound and picture fade in time, so I think that spicing them up to sound good is okay.

    As for Vader sudenly being on the SD. no he says something to the effect of "prepare my shuttle" I don't think that he needs to tell all of us that he's going to his SD, we already know that he's on it later.

    Also, I agree that some of the effects are okay, but still I believe that if they really need to make CGI enhancements than they really just need to actually make them look good instead of making them look mediocre.
  6. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    The problem is that the SEs, as someone said before, were just platforms for testing CGI. Instead of making simple, obvious improvements like fixing the lightsabers, they added goofy CGI aliens and robots.

    Another example, the first hour of ANH is hardcore. Luke's nearly killed, he learns about his father and the Force, his family's burned to death, Obi Wan takes on the grave responsibility of training another Skywalker...then we see a silly CGI robot beating another robot and guys falling off big dinosaurs. The fun! totally ruined the dramatic flow of the film.

    So yeah, I hope that Lucas makes the originals available, as I don't have them anymore, in any form.
  7. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah they made is a joke instead of a mostly serious series.
  8. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "Yeah they made is a joke instead of a mostly serious series."

    Hmmm, I thought the PT was the series that took itself too seriously and the OT was the one that wasn't afraid to poke fun at itself...

    "Instead of making simple, obvious improvements"

    coughlandspeederblobcough
  9. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    Well you thought wrong.

    Just kidding. Well I think that the SE's did make a joke out of the OT. And the PT's are definetely not serious.

    "This is such a drag." "oh look, 'Im quite beside myself."

    You call that serious?
  10. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    "Mine mine mine mine mine!" ::yoda "sticks it" to R2::

    R2's pratfall in ANH.

    R2's barf joke in Empire.

    Threepio's "turn" as God of the Ewoks.

    You call that serious? :p
  11. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Another example, the first hour of ANH is hardcore. Luke's nearly killed, he learns about his father and the Force, his family's burned to death, Obi Wan takes on the grave responsibility of training another Skywalker...then we see a silly CGI robot beating another robot and guys falling off big dinosaurs. The fun! totally ruined the dramatic flow of the film.

    Yup. That cantina scene, so dark and hardcore. With dark, dramatic music, completely serious characters, and of course Han, the most serious character in the movie.

    Wait, wait, I'm thinking of the Outlander Club (well, OK, it didn't have Han). The cantina was the place that resembled a Western saloon, had fun and lively music playing, crazy aliens, and a good old-fashioned bar fight. Plus Han and Chewie.

    But yeah, the craziness of the cantina scene completely ruined the flow of the movie. It doesn't fit in at all with the seriousness of the first part. Too much fun. We all know we can't have fun following seriousness in Star Wars.

    Almost forgot about the TIE fighter attack so soon after Ben's death. Too much fun, way too soon after something so serious. Can't have that at all.
  12. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    *bows to Lord_Hydronium & Luke_Clone*
  13. hoth-nudist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2000
    star 3
    I think the PT is okay but needs serious work. After viewing the first 2 movies I must agree with LukeTrue1. With the PT, I think its just an ego thing with GL. People at ILM say that GL is like a dictator, its his way or no way. He likes to show off his his technology and display his total control. Thats okay but its getting in the way of quality filmaking. He has been very rusty and out of touch. I even heard that his kids came up with a lot of the names for the characters in ep2. 2 episodes are out of the way and there is only one more episode in which he can bring some sort of continuity to the saga. GL is really going to have to do some serious work to bridge the gap between the 2 trilogies. Because so far, they both are like night and day.
  14. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    "Night and day" makes sense in context of pre-Empire and Empire times. It's a stylistic concept, but it works for me.
  15. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    In regards to the Luke_Clone, and the other J-A. I have noticed far more inconsitancies with the PT than in the OT. That why the OT are deemed "the classics" Because of the fact taht there are very few inconsitancies in them, then in most films. What I was trying to say is that is in a serious matter, the OT follows a specific pattern. They have dramatic and serious events, followed by a slightly less tense and more humourous event. The SE's ruined that pattern. Take for instance the humorous event in ANH was not the guys falling off of lizards. It was the happy and giddy music of the Cantina. Naturally it is impossible to have a quality film without a few funny or less tense moments. So that is the beauty of the OT. They had their deathly serious moments, and then to lighten the moments they threw in a few slighty melodramatic moments. The SE's as I already said ruined this pattern. And in certain area's that were already less dramatic, they made to nonchallant. IE; Jedi Rocks. So I think that GL has made the whole OT a little messed up with the inconsistancies that the SE's bring with them.

    And Finally, the PT. There is a lesser pattern used in these films. They kind of follow the pattern that the OT created. But they too like the SE's made too many funny moments without enough serious moments, which at best were not all that serious at best. But that may just be GL's new way and if so then I suppose that its his choice to do what he wants.
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