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Speculation Lucas & Star Wars lack of Back Story/History. Maybe told in Episode 7-9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by nld3, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2005
    I have a theory that there was no united empire under the Sith. At the time there were many Sith and Sith factions. Each faction controlled part of the galaxy and they were constantly warring with each other, with each Sith Master wanting to be the guy who gained control over everything, but not only did they have to contend with each other, they had to watch their backs because their subordinates were always waiting to strike. All of this would have been seen as healthy because it would ensure that the strongest Sith always led their territories. There may have a single Sith Council made up of the leaders of the Sith factions who may have met to discuss matters that concerned all of them, such as the Jedi but for the most part they were enemies.

    I also think the Sith would probably have had slave armies and that their method of rule (call it the Rule of Strongest) with each Sith territory being a separate entity, is what would have allowed the Jedi to gain a foothold. The Jedi couldn't take on an entire galaxy. But take one world, one local Sith ruler. Depose him and nobody cares. The other Sith think it's just a territorial conflict with a rival Lord. The slave army is freed and those slaves are asked if they want to join the Jedi army and free the galaxy. Some choose to join, others choose to go back to their families.

    This happens on another worlds. And another. And another. Which each freed world, more freed slaves choose to join the Jedi army and the Sith are too busy fighting each other to pay much attention because they never conceived that the peaceful Jedi would ever go to war. By the time the Sith realise what's going on, the Jedi have gained a solid position in the galaxy. What's more, rumours of the Jedi begin to spread to slaves across the galaxy. Slaves who spent their entire lives living in fear of the Sith are given hope for the first time and as the war goes on, that hope becomes courage as slaves within the Sith territories begin to rebel. And even with all of this going on, the Sith still can't stop fighting each other. Logic dictates they should combine their strength but they're all so consumed with wanting to be sole rulers of the galaxy that it blinds them to what they should do and leads to their downfall.

    At some point, the Sith can no longer trust or maintain their slave armies due to constant rebellion and are forced to turn to droids. But by then their defeat is inevitable. They're facing war on three fronts - a Jedi army that grows with each liberated world, a slave rebellion and of course, each other. I think that a Sith Lord, realising the certainty of defeat, takes drastic action. This Sith Lord is a Darth Bane kind of character and before the end of the war, he enacts a plan to destroy all the rival Sith Masters, Lords and apprentices. This would have to happen before the end of the war, probably a few years before, because the Jedi in TPM are aware of the Rule Of Two. The remainder of the war would see one master and one apprentice in control of a droid army and even though they know they're going to lose, they keep fighting because to only way to enact their plan for revenge is to make the Jedi think they've been wiped out completely. By the time the Jedi army reaches Coruscant to fight the final battle of the war, the Sith are gone, presumed dead.

    The galaxy is now free but there's lots of rebuilding to be done. Millions of freed slaves unite and work together to build a better galaxy, ultimately forming a new Galactic Republic and the Jedi, who prepare to return to their temples and monasteries, are asked to stay and protect the young Republic as guardians of peace and justice. Meanwhile, somewhere in the galaxy, two Sith, a master and an apprentice, begin their thousand year plan to enact terrible vengeance on the Jedi and rule the galaxy once more....

    Now, what I've just written is basically a concept I've had for a number of years for a project called STAR WARS: Prologue, which would tell the story of the old Sith conflict and the origins of the Republic, separate to the expanded universe and based on what we learn in the movies and the little information Lucas has given over the years plus a lot of my own ideas.
    Snydbo likes this.
  2. Snydbo

    Snydbo Jedi Youngling

    Nov 3, 2012
    Wow. I'll buy it. Similar to what happened to the Jedi getting over confident as Yoda put it. Do you have more of this story?
  3. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2005
    Oh I have maybe 5 books worth of story based on the war alone. Then there's backstory. There's so much story that I'm thinking of removing the Star Wars references and creating an original sci-fi novel series based around some of the concepts since the chances of me ever actually getting to tell the story in a Star Wars context are pretty much zero.

    The Jedi/Sith backstory is essentially what it is in EU. Beings from all over the galaxy discover an energy field that becomes known as The Force. Over time they come together to study it and learn to use it, which leads to certain people harnessing the dark side, causing a split in the Jedi Order. In this version though the galaxy is utterly divided, in a constant state of interstellar war with every world pretty much out for themselves. When the Sith return, having spent centuries in unknown space, learning the ways of the Dark Side and recruiting, they sweep through the Outer Rim, enslaving many worlds. They use the same tactics the Jedi would later use to defeat them. Going world by world, building an army, not of liberated men though, they conquer and enslave. Their powers make them appear as gods. The rest of the galaxy takes no notice because it doesn't care and by the time it does, it's too late.

    Through all of this, the Jedi do nothing because they're pacifists. They're more like Jedi Monks. It is in this time that both Jedi and Sith see visions of the future and we get the prophecy of the Chosen One. What the Sith see is someone who will bring order to chaos. What the Jedi see is someone who will balance to the Force. They refuse to stand up to the Sith because they follow the path of light, of passiveness and believe the Chosen One will be the instrument the Force uses to end Sith rule. The Sith rule, unopposed for about 300 years. It is a true galactic dark age filled with misery and torment and death. And the Jedi can feel it and the Force is being more corrupted by the Dark Side. At some point, the Jedi are shown a vision of the Force fully corrupted by the Dark Side. Finally, they determine that they have to act. They can't afford to be passive. They put aside their monk-like existence and become knights.

    If I do end up writing a novel series, there will be significant changes and pretty much unrecognisable from what's here, which is why I'm happy to share what I have. A couple of last things - in the Star Wars: Prologue concept, the lightsaber is a Sith weapon that the Jedi adopt. Technology isn't as advanced as it is in the Skywalker saga. For example, when the Jedi Order first forms, hyperspace technology has only just reached the Outer Rim. When the Sith invade, a lot of worlds have never seen an alien. In the hundred year war, bullets are still being used. There are blasters but it's an expensive technology. Snub fighters are either atmosphere only or space only. They don't do both. Droids are also pretty basic. What happens is that in the hundred year war, technology advancement goes through the roof, particularly on the Sith side. By the end of the war, blasters are more common place, space ship technology is much closer to what we see in The Phantom Menace and the advancement of droids is purely military as the Sith seek to create an alternative to the treacherous slave army. The first astromechs are military droids and protocol droids aren't created until after the war.

    Part of the inspiration came from the Roman Empire building roads and creating other innovations and how they were still in use long after it collapsed. The idea was that the Republic was built on the ruins of what the Sith had done. Republic technology as it exists in Episode 1 has its roots in the innovations of the Sith as they attempted to stop the Jedi.

    As I've said, since I'll never tell that story in full, I've conceived of a new original story that uses a lot of the concepts in different ways. It's just a question of actually getting around to writing that story.

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 25, 2003
    I wouldn't mind seeing some history about the Jedi and Sith...but don't spend too much time on it-just a couple minutes or so, to move/set up that part of the plot, whatever it might be.

    But I think that could make an interesting storyline, or at least subplot-some kind of thing that's going on that is a connection to "ancient" Jedi or Sith times/events. Or maybe not even ancient, per se-maybe something connecting to the days of the Empire, or during the timeframe between TPM-AOTC...I would find any of that intriguing.
  5. Mifunela

    Mifunela Jedi Youngling

    Jan 7, 2013
    No need for a long history lesson. A short one, maybe.
  6. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 9, 2012
    Great answers. I really can't add to it other than to say, the backstory will eventually be told IMO when Disney soemday does a series set in the era of The Old Republic when there were a ton of Jedi as well as Sith. It's a blank slate and Disney will explit it to our heart's content I do believe.
  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 7, 2009
    Says who?


    Secret apprentices don't contradict anything. There can only be two Sith Lords at a time. The apprentices aren't Sith.
    Echo-07 likes this.

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 25, 2003
    Although I agree that secret apprentices don't really contradict, I kind of agree still that it seems the whole "secret apprentice" thing is just a cop-out, to be able to have a villain with a red lightsaber, and conveniently not call it Sith...Although I do like Asajj Ventress, I would just rather they didn't do it that way...or if they DO, just do it ONCE! I would hope they keep this "secret apprentice" rule-of-two circumvention to a minimum in the ST. After all, what was the MacGuffin of ROTJ? a SECOND Death Star!!! Of all things! :p
  9. Kyris Cavisek

    Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 12, 2012
    That is simple, they are two groups of Force Users, one light, one dark. Remember the ST is going to be a DISNEY BLOCKBUSTER to rival Avengers. A better example of what you are going to get would be the Avengers movie. No one knew anything about the aliens aside from the fact there was a shadowy leader, and Loki calls them the Chitauri. No one sits there and asks, well what planet are they from? How long have they been space farring? How did they come to work for Thantos? No, they were just something to be cut down by the Avengers.

    In the same way, the Jedi and Sith (or whatever dark side group replaces them) will continue to fight. If there is something they need to change, they will. Something along the lines of "But I thought there were only two Sith Master?" "That was Bane's Rule of Two. This is Krayt's One Sith (Or whatever they try to use)."

    In the same way if they want to keep the Rule of Two, one Sith can learn from a Holocron or some other form of Palpatine, recreating the Rule of Two.

    That being said, if you want to know more put your hands on Essential Guide to the Force. It will have whatever you are interested in. You can pick and choose what you like.

    I am interested to know how much you know about the EU? Other than there is alot of it?
    DarthApprentice likes this.
  10. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2012
    And THX-1138 doesn't tell use anything about how that particular society came to be that way, either. It's a writing technique called In media res; you drop the audience in the middle of the action and let them figure out what came before, for so far as that's relevant to the main plot:
  11. darthzac14

    darthzac14 Jedi Knight star 3

    Nov 8, 2012
    There is something its EU thought and it's "The Old Republic" In it the Sith Empire is the dominant power in the galaxy just saying...
  12. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2005
    And it's contradicted by the movies in oh so many ways. Look, I'm a KOTOR fan so I dig that era of EU...kind's convoluted and repetitive and makes the wars of the Skywalker Saga look like small skirmishes and not the epic battle between good and evil they're supposed to be, but for what it is, KOTOR and TOR era stories are fine...well...except for what Bioware did to Revan and Exile. Bah.

    Also I conceived of this idea long before TOR came out. I may have even talked about it a couple of times on the old boards. Heck, I remember posting it years ago on the blogs. The reason I came up with it was two-fold. First because ROTS in particular seemed to contradict Old Republic EU and so I tried to imagine what Lucas' alternative might be. Second's just something I like to do. ;)
  13. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 9, 2012
    I think the rule of two is awesome and makes total sense -- Sith are EVIL. They can't be trusted. They always agree with you to your face just to plot to stab you in the back. That's whay having "secret apprentices" also makes perfect sense. These beings are treacherous traitors. They're the bad guys. They do things underhanded and in shadows. They plot and scheme. It's all totally appropriate within their order. They're BAD GUYS for cripes sake!!!
    Darth Chiznuk and Alexrd like this.
  14. Kyris Cavisek

    Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 12, 2012
    Maybe in the ST, we can get a Sith Triumvirate. Which makes far more sense than the Rule of Two.

    Historically looking at the two Roman Triumvirates, it works well, with each not being the master of the others, protecting each other because they have need of one another. Yet when one oversteps his bounds, the other two put them in their place. Now with two, you fall back into the rule of two, but where both are competing to be the Master... unless they understood that if the two of them were to reintroduce a third that the whole thing would fall apart. Unfortunately they won't, cause both will see the other as the obstacle to supreme power, trying to eliminate each other. Both could take apprentices to gain the upper hand, so you have two warring Sith Lords from a broken Triumvirates. Each former Triumvir with an Understudy. The reigning Sith Lord who wins out in turn creates an Apprentice Triumvirate, each with a purpose, or unknowing of each other. Should they decide to gang up on the master, you know have 3 more Sith Lords to fight, if they decide to fight it out, when there is one Master, one Apprentice... Outside forces can kill one of the two starting the Triumvir Cycle all over again...

    For the historical perspective, look at this...
    First Roman Triumvirate... (Was in Secret as Supposed Enemies) Julius Caesar, Crassus, and Pompey
    Crassus is Defeated by outside forces...
    Pompey becomes Consul, Caesar crosses the Rubicon with his Army... War...
    Caesar wins out, becomes Consul for life...

    Caesar Assassinated by Senate

    Second Triumvirate... (Was Common Knowledge) Created to Bring Senate to Justice for Caesar's Murder
    Augustus Caesar, Mark Anthony, and Lepidus.
    Lepidus accused of usurping power and loses power...
    Mark Anthony and Caesar War... Caesar Wins out... Becomes Emperor...

    Let's not forget that Mark Anthony was Julius Caesar's right hand man, Augustus was Julius Caesar's, nephew and adopted son.

    If you add in the Cleopatra effect where both Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony were her lovers, with Julius Caesar fathering a son of Caesarion "Little Caesar"

    It could be the Sith Order that never ends :D...

    All Yoda had to say was "Always three there are, no more no less..." (Don't include the Master Apprentice thing)...

    But the ST Sith could be Triumvirs created by Palps in secret...
    Echo-07 likes this.