Discussion in 'Games' started by spicer, Mar 21, 2013.
The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief
^^ Why didn't I think of this ie the 5 stages LOL
Look at my avatar. LOOKIT.
I'm not very excited about the new movies. I'd rather have comics and TV. So, when commercialism takes precedence over storytelling, I get mad.
But when commercialism weeds out a sub-par division to make room for something better, I don't get mad. You're treating Disney like an ex (now, hear me out, remembering that I agree with you on many of the negatives here): maybe this ex was really controlling. So, now you run into this ex at the grocery store, and there's just a little bit of small talk... and maybe she comments on something you're buying, and says you should eat healthier. OH MAN, what a b****, right? Still controlling, even after you've broken up! So you part ways, and then you see her at the end of an aisle, buying skim milk, and you think to yourself... "Look at that stupid b****, buying SKIM milk... she WOULD buy skim milk... that b**** is a terrible person."
Now, in the first case, you were justified to get mad. But in the second case, you were just mad at the person. It had nothing to do with her behavior. Look, we've all done this, but we're talking about a company here; there's no evil overlord. This company is a mindless juggernaut, paving a road by blasting everything out of its way. Sometimes good things are in its path (TCW), and sometimes bad things are in its path (LucasArts). There's too much money in videogames, and too many development directors at various studios who are inevitably huge Star Wars fans, for there to be no more games.
Another thing: You do realize that LucasArts only developed a handful of games in the past decade, right? The Force Unleashed I and II... can't remember what else. Not even Battlefront was developed by LucasArts; only published by them. Lego, KoTOR, TOR... all developed at other studios.
And for those who are worried because nothing new has been announced: do you know how long it takes for a project to even be announced? The fact is, there ARE games in development. It's almost a certainty. But part of quality control is to keep a tight leash on those projects, so that bad ideas aren't leaked. Oh, and another thing: LucasArts says their unannounced titles are all safe. It's only the difficulty of porting the partially-coded games to a new developer*, so technically, they'd just told you that there are games in development, whenever another studios absorbs them.
*Now, this sucks, indeed, re: 1313... but it's just not on the same level as TCW, which had an ongoing story. I'd rather not see something at all, so that it doesn't enter continuity, than have it be cut off in the middle.
you would rather have a Star Wars comic and/or cartoon over a new movie? Really? I'm curious now as to what generation some of the posters/fans are on here. To me it's a no brainer: Star Wars movie > Star Wars anything else
That is certainly not the case with all fans. I, for one, am a much bigger fan of the Star Wars universe than of the Star Wars movies. And we get a much bigger chunk of the universe through games (be they video games or RPGs) than through the movies.
Don't get me wrong...I have devoured pretty much everything Star Wars: novels, comics, video games, cartoons, RPG material etc. My hobby is collecting Star Wars books, my library consists of hundreds books. Rest assured if I complain about a video game, episode of the Clone Wars or novel it's because I have played it, watched it or read it. But still, and always, nothing will compare to going to a Star Wars movie on and seeing "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" followed by the logo and opening scrawl.
I'm 25, so I grew up with the OT and respectively the Special Editions, caved to peer pressure and said I hated the prequels for years, had my hipster cinephile phase, got married and settled down and stopped worrying about being cool or needing to see high art in every film I watch, realized that I still loved the prequels (having been only 11 when TPM came out), and now like pretty much all of it. The universe eases my moderate-to-severe obsessive-compulsive mind. Even if the quality of the prequels is lacking, I still love them as an "historical appendix" to the OT. Then, TCW redeemed the prequel era for me entirely.
I've always been more interested in the background characters. TCW and the comics/novels have been able to flesh out those characters, be that through reading Tales from Jabba's Palace when I was a tike, or watching TCW now. TCW provided 40+ hours of GFFA crunchiness, but you can only watch a movie so many times; sure, I want a new film, but not at the expense of other media.
Because of my background as a film nerd, I find it very easy to read between the lines and see past the minor flaws in most SW stuff, because I can get that artistic satisfaction elsewhere. If I wanna watch a meaningful film, I'll watch Fellini or Godard.Star Wars is, to some extent, pulpy fun... but also satisfies a craving for "vastness." Star Wars is infinitely less vast without books/comics/TV.
Star Wars (ie "A New hope" IS a meaningful film...pulpy fun yes, but I identified heavily with Luke Skywalker more than any other character I had ever seen (farmboy stuck in a dead end, ignorant town wanting more out of life). That's meaningful in my opinion
It just seems to be that there is an irrational fear that there will be NO new Star Wars product now besides movies and that it is going to disappear from the public eye, I don't think that is the case at all. *My* preference is a new movie though. Already it has been stated by many sources there will be another cartoon, a live action TV show is very likely (and I think more so now than it was before the purchase) there are still going to be video games, comics and books. Who will publishing the games, comics and books I have no idea at this point.
Well, that kind of meaningful, versus the meaning inherent to 8 1/2 or Godard's Made in USA or even just an old Hollywood noir like Sunset Boulevard... for me, it's no contest. I'm just saying, based on what I've been exposed to and moved by, I just don't see Star Wars as having quite the same artistic virility that the older auteurs do. Now, that said, I don't want artistic virility every day of my life. Star Wars just satisfies a different part of my brain that craves texture, escapism, nostalgia... and I just don't turn to it for deep meaning. It's there, but for me, that's not its strength. That's really all I mean. I'd say I like Star Wars more than those things, because I'm a more sentimental person, not to mention the OCD creating a certain craving for detail.
And, I'm not so much worried about the existence of tertiary media, as much as I'm worried about the quality. It's never been confirmed that there's a new animated show; just that they're "exploring" one (industry term for "sitting around a table, tossing ideas around," with no accounting for its execution). Again, games benefit from this situation... because games make money. Literature and TV, on the other hand, might not get the attention they deserve now, being less profitable.
I understand this reasoning, I love the Original Trilogy to bits and have pure glee watching them. I'm not Prequel hater/basher either and enjoy those. But in this era of Star Wars, I don't want to so all the EU stuff that has taken years to build to be torn down. Am I excited about the new trilogy? Absolutely. But I don't want just new movies to look forward, The Clone Wars was cancelled with no replacement and 1313/First Assault/Lucasarts was also closed down with no replacement. Right now Dark Horse is telling amazing stories in comic form that I think rivals the stories we see in the movies.
I grew up in the 90s/Early 2000s and when the Original Trilogy was given to me as a gift(the original versions not the special edition) in 97(or maybe 98?) I had a marathon almost every day for a week straight of all three films. I had only watched them on TV up to that point and getting to see them from start to finish for the first time was amazing. New movies are unbelievably exciting for me, but I'm also questionable at what Disney is going to do. I didn't expect TCW and Lucasarts to get the ax so soon....well Lucasarts I kinda understand. So far I'm not liking Disney decisions for the franchise so far. And I was excited by the acquisition at first.
Often the appeal of a universe can help overcome the lapses in quality. It's still possible to enjoy the PT, TFU or even a children's book because they add some further context to the stories that do help define the SW experience for people- for me, that would be the OT, Dark Forces, X-Wing, Dark Times and other key EU stories.
However, that is all subjective and the specific titles you classify one way or the other will vary from person to person- yet the notion of one adding to the other is constant through everyone (whether they are conscious of it or not or even if they narrow their focus down to just the specific films).
Given that this is a gaming forum, yeah, I'd take a modern equivalent of KOTOR; a 60-hour epic travelling through the SW galaxy over a 2 hour film any day.
Yes, with the Skyrim/Bethesdea craze it would be great to have a Star Wars game in that style. Not just a 60 hour epic....but 120+ one.
Or KOTOR III from BioWare using alot of the techniques from Mass Effect/Dragon Age. (which IMO Mass Effect is alot of what KOTOR was just expanded)
When I heard this news I thought that it was so sad. Many of us grew up playing Lucasarts games and now we all have to wonder what the future of Star Wars gaming is.
I'm no Jedi, but I'm confident in saying it'll be brighter than what we got these past few years.
Let's hope so for everyone's sake
LucasArts was in trouble even before the Disney deal was announced, that part is pretty much old news for anyone who follows the video gaming industry, especially us Star Wars fans. For all of its past successes, its sad to see the crew, and the cargo as will in the case of 1313 and Frontal Assault, go down with the ship (especially given that the games themselves never had the chance to prove their own merit to us fans).
I still haven't written off the Disney purchase as being a purely negative thing, although I am feeling that we, as fans, are past due for an announcement of any kind that doesn't have a negative connotation attached to it in some way, shape, or form. Disney, be it a previously unannounced game in development, or some brand spanking new news about the sequels, please give us something to chase this bitter melancholy of recent announcements down with.
I think you nailed their mistake: it's not about taking stuff away, but doing it under such secrecy, and without anything to look forward to that would replace it (except VII).
In a way, I've been somewhat optimistic this whole time... but I still helped campaign about the TCW cancellation, because there needed to be a movement to show that fans are, despite our many scathing differences, still more involved and clustered than those of their other similar subsidiary, Marvel; sure, there are canon lawyers, and TCW haters, and gushers, and fruit roll-ups (wait... I may have misunderstood the meaning of "gushers...") and all other sorts of weirdos, but we're considerably less splintered than the general Marvel fans they've dealt with as a frame of reference.
While some of the kids are all, "Devilry! They're doing this to hurt my feelings!" I've been thinking, "Well, what's to prevent the kids from feeling that way?" I mean, based on what they've given us so far, we'd be remiss not to campaign until some light of hope appears.
So, to clarify, LucasArts will continue to exist as a publishing/licensing entity, just not a game developer, correct? If that's the case, it's still a shame that LucasArts is effectively being gutted, but to be perfectly honest this has been a long time coming. A lot of the strongest Star Wars titles over the years have been developed by other entities anyway - examples include Rogue Squadron (Factor 5), KOTOR (BioWare/Obsidian), Battlefront (Pandemic), and Jedi Outcast (Raven).
Since 2000, the only notable in-house SW titles I can think of are Starfighter, Bounty Hunter, ROTS, and TFU - not terrible games, but not exactly the cream of the crop either. It seems to me that LA hasn't been a strong developer since the 1990's. Maybe we'll actually get some good content in the next few years if they license new games to solid developers... then again, all the Marvel movie tie-ins have gone to Sega, and, well... yuck.
Yup, you nailed it. LucasArts still exists except it will no longer be developing games in house. This isn't necessarily a new thing, as you pointed out, but it is an end to an era for the company.
Does Sega still have that license? I thought The Incredible Hulk and Captain America:Super Soldier were pretty decent games. Lucasarts definitely were their best as a developer in the 90s.
I have many fond memories of Lucasarts games. Grim Fandango is one of the best video games of all time.
I have done some research and calculations and assuming it's all correct (I did use Wikipedia's "List of LucasArts Games" page after all), here is what I discovered:
Roughly 63 of the 128 games LucasArts has published were actually made in-house since it's conception.
Thus, assuming 63 IS the right number, 63/128 * 100 = 49% of games were ultimately developed in-house at LucasArts since it's conception.
What's also interesting to note is many of our favourite games based on the Star Wars franchise were externally developed such as the Flight Sims (all made by Totally Games & in the 90's at that), KOTOR 1&2 (By BioWare & Obsidian, Respectfully), all 3 Rogue Squadrons (Factor 5), Battlefronts 1 & 2 & it's PSP sub-series (made by Pandemic & Rebellion, respectfully) & even Jedi Knight 2 & Jedi Academy (Raven Software). The majority of LucasArts games made in-house were games based on it's own original IP's such as the Monkey Island franchise and Zombies Ate My Neighbors games (only 2 games, I know but still...) or standalone titles such as Grim Fandango and Afterlife. That's not to say LucasArts made NO Star Wars games at all in-house since the Super Star Wars games were made internally (in conjunction with Sculptured Software at that), as were Dark Forces 1 & 2, Starfighter & it's sequel Jedi Starfighter, & of course Republic Commando. Besides, LucasArts also developed some mediocre-to-bad games too in it's heyday (Masters of Teras Kasi & Yoda Stories anyone?).
Me personally, I am cautiously optimistic with what Disney is doing and will keep on waiting and seeing what they do, hoping for the best. It may be unlikely we'll be seeing games based on IP's such as Monkey Island but I wouldn't entirely rule out games based on Star Wars or Indiana Jones since they are money makers (the former moreso).
I'm almost 40. I saw all the original films in the theater (ANH in 79 when it was re-released prior to ESB in 80) Then I saw ESB opening weekend. And saw ROTJ opening night. I remember the "other" Dartk TImes all too well, which I consider 87-97. The last "Ewoks" cartoon aired late December or in January between 86-87. It wasn't until 1996 a girlfrend of mine took me to an IMAX film as a surprise which featured "the history of special effects". The big surprise was that it had behind the scenes footage of the Special Editions that were to be released the following year. To me Star Wars was coming back!!!
From the time of the first Special Edition release until the 2008 release of TCW in theaters I was ALWAYS the first one in line at my local theater. That's 7 films camping out to be first in line. For the record I saw AOTC 22 times in it's first week of release, and yes, I paid for every ticket.
So I'm not sure what age has to do with how much people like the PT or the OT or TCW. I'm a fan of ALL SW. I don't share the cynicism the "older folk" do of "well back in my day we loved how whiny Mark Hamill was and we loved the black matting boxes around all the space ships". I just say "I evolved along with Star Wars" instead of living in the past in my childhood. Children of the 70s and 80s are so jaded because they remember the OT being bigger than life. Then as the grew up they had this unrealistic expectation of what THEY thought the PT should be like. I went into the PT without any expectations, much like a child would. I'm just there for the ride and enjoy it.
It's cool to see people of PraenomenCognomen age liking SW. Or my nieces that grew up with the PT and now are 21 and dressing up like SW characters. Even my grand nephew loves SW. I love sharing in ALL ERAs of SW. I'm not an OT snob. Not that OT snobs want me to feel sorry for them, but I do. They have so many hangups, they just can't enjoy anything besides the OT. And they will just be disappointed with the ST, because they think they're savior is going to be Abrams because they are just Lucas haters. But the track record shows they will be just as disappointed as they are with everything else.
I hate to compare a movie franchise to social issues, but having SW comics, TV, games, books, etc, etc, etc, then going to nothing is like taking away peoples freedoms. If you are used to certain rights and freedoms, you usually don't like when they are taken away. I love seeing all the toys in stores. Seeing TCW every week. Reading the books, and playing the games.
Disney starting a NEW "dark times" doesn't make me feel too good. I lived through the 86-97 dark times and I don't even want to see a 2013-2015 lull. TO me SW has evolved more than just a 2 hour movie every 3 years. It's a social and cultural constant. Disney needs to keep that level of service up, not take it away.
I wish I had caught that IMAX feature. Ben Burtt directed it and, besides having footage from the SE of the troopers in the desert, it also had a modern recreation of ANH's opening space battle that WASN'T for the SE. They did the same for King Kong's ending as well.