Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Diggs, Nov 8, 2012.
Arawn, tell me, concisely, who the villains of TPM and what their goal is ( I know the answers - I want to see it explained concisely).
In A New hope, the empire wanted to destroy the rebels at Yavin.
In Empire Strikes Back, Anakin was scheming with Lando, Han Solo, to get Luke to become his new Darth, to overthrow the Emperor (like all sith overthrow their masters), get luke his new apprentice and right hand man to rule the galaxy with, just like he wanted to do with Luke's mother over 20 years before, as a young man...
Return of Jedi- 2nd death star plans to destroy rebels.
I have a few questions.
If Luke turned to the darkside, would either Vader or Sidious, knight him a "Darth"?
Also, the Empire destroyed Alderaan, and despayre in the EU, in the time period of a new hope. They built a 2nd death star. They never used it on any other planets. Did the empire plan to use the 2nd death star on other planets, or just as a war superweapon against their enemies-the rebels? How many planets did they plan to destroy? For what reason?
Was the Empire evil, other than the death star??
Erm.. does the Emperor count?
Besides that, no one I can think of.
Oh yeah totally agree with you he already has a different type of pressure.
Apologies, that should have read TPM.
The problem is what you mean by "compelling". If you mean "dramatically compelling" I'm there with you, although the OT surfed by on a lot of editing tricks and just moving the story along; but you did feel invested in the characters. If you mean "nothing compelling about it at all" a lot of us will disagree with you. For me, TPM is a hundred times more compelling than ESB as a work of art, but it's all esoteric stuff most people don't care about.
But this is pointless. They hired a seriously good Academy Award winning screenwriter. It won't have the weaknesses of Lucas's writing. No one has to worry about that. Watch YIJ -- Lucas let those writers go free and write some of the best teleplays I've ever encountered. It's the best writing Frank Darabont will ever do.
I also think it's naive to not acknowledge that one of the reasons we're getting a first-rate movie (and not just a generic episode) is in part due to the (exaggerated and sometimes unfounded) negative reaction to the PT. The bad vibe is definitely out there. In a way, it makes this so much more exciting. SW has something to prove for the first time since '77. GL and KK are going to show the world that SW still has "it". We're in for a great ride.
But there was.
And I meant to add in my last post - in response to where you say Darth Maul was never properly developed - well Boba Fett was never developed in any way on the OT and it never hindered his insane and way out of all proportion popularity.
And the notion of "character development" is a highly over thought notion. There is a very small amount of characters who are truly different at the end of a movie to how they were at the start.
And Star Wars isn't a "character study", it is an adventure fantasy and all that a villain really needs to be sometimes is just a badass. We don't need to know why Maul does what he does, we just need to know he is awesome at it.
I love his big entrance in the new LEGO film. Brilliant.
The villians of the originals never had any clear goals either. What did Anakin skywalker (better known as Darth Vader) and Darth Sidious want to do with the 2nd death star? Just use it to defeat rebels? Or use it on a large scale against innocent planets? Their goal wasn't clear either. They should have shown more of their goal, and the rebel's goals.
The villians of the PT? Simple. Start the clone wars to get a loyal clone army, to take over Republic and turn it into the Galactic Empire?
However, why did Palpatine need to be appointed Emperor in the Senate, if he already had a clone army at that point?
How do you know that? Besides, do want mindless and nonsensical fighting or a story with a good moral value? That's one thing the OT had that the PT did not. The OT ended with a story of redemption, and faith. The PT pretty much ended rushed.
This story is about passing on the torch. This guy is perfect for writing this, if you have seen Toy Story 3 you'd agree I hope. I'm certain there's fighting in the script, it's Star WARS after all. Whoever directs will probably have experience in that. Toy Story 3 and Little Miss Sunshine got good reviews, and Toy Story 3 made a ton of money.
I'll take a good story over mindless CGI any day.
Which explains why he wrote the script for Oblivion.
Anakin Skywalker and Boba Fett were allies in Empire Strikes back, episode 5. In Episode 2, they met each other as younger people. Interesting. I still think Boba Fett was shoehorned into the prequels, though!!
Have you even watched Little Miss Sunshine???
Grab some knowledge - vital in the formation of an opinion.
And what is "kiddy stuff" anyway?
Who told you he was directing?
StewJon - But Boba Fett isn't the main antagonist. Who is the main antagonist of TPM? Maul was great - I don't necessarily need to know everything about him - I do think he could have been used more.
Eternal - I did mean compelling in that sense. And I agree that on some levels the basic story of the PT can be compelling. I like the themes and the over arching sweep. I just think the execution was off.
I think Arndt's involvement should mean the execution will match concept and the characters and heart won't be an issue (for some) this time around.
For a few moments I thought he wrote Elder Scrolls: Oblivion...
No he won't.
The EU is out the window.
Disney is going to create its own.
You're not the only one
No he won't.
The EU is out the window.
Disney is going to create its own.[/quote]
I hope they do throw it out and cherry picks the best of the EU. But I think there will be many fans who will be unhappy and will be vocal about it which will create its own pressure.
While that may be true that the EU is out the window, there's still going to be pressure from EU fans.
When I first heard of the film Oblivion (Sci-Fi film starring Tom Cruise & Morgan Freeman), I thought the same thing.
I agree with you. Good story over CGI=awesome. We're on the same page here. The prequels had too much CGI..... The originals had raw and awesome space battles. A run down science fiction world. The prequels, too much CGI battles and setting. They didn't have the same awesome OT feel..
The prequels weren't just nonsensical fighting and action. They had a good story. Anakin Skywalker joins the darkside to save his wife Padme, pregnant with the future Jedi twins Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia from the OT. He helps kill a jedi master (mace windu), in the heat of the moment, underwent a physical transformation from a handsome long haired young man to a cyborg samurai, betrayed his allies to become the Emperor's servant. Padme died, and he cried at her loss.
Even when he was looked like Darth Vader from the originals, like this.
He missed his wife and cried at her loss. It shows us that beneath that black armor suit, he had a very human side to him, even then. Seeing cyborg Vader mention his wife was very sad and emotional, showing us the humanity he had. He never mentioned her name after that. Her death drove him even deeper to the darkside and despair.
Saving Luke freed his soul from the darkside. Even though his main goal was personal, to save Luke, it released him from the grip of the darkside and evil. Had he lived, he would've either joined the Rebels Alliance, or been a benevolent ruler, in ROTJ.
The only thing that could've ever redeemed Anakin Skywalker's soul was the desire to save others.
Remember how Darth Vader killed the Emperor to save his son Luke? He joined the Emperor to save his pregnant wife Padme. Parallels. Darth Vader's goals are to protect family.
Michael Arndt does not need to know scifi very well, because Star Wars isn't really much scifi anyway....It isn't like Star Trek where there is always some kind of pseudo scientific explanation for all of the advanced technology, and we all know that Star Wars has always played liberally with the laws of physics . Star Trek is very intellectual, and Star Wars isn't, so really it's more about just writing good characters, plot pacing and action, which I believe that Arndt is capable of.
He's the writer, not the director.
Agreed. Star Wars is ultimately a fairy tale.