Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Diggs, Nov 8, 2012.
Agreed. I see an awful lot of injuries resulting from people jumping to conclusions
Very seldom does one person write the whole script and it is not surprising that JJ will have an input. Could Arndt now be working on Episode VIII?
Absolutely. Everyone needs to read this.
Maybe this will help these folks lessen the fall... or at least turn it into a fun game!!!
You want us to read rumor site that doesn't even check it's dates. We discussed this already. Nov.11 is a Wednsday and Veteran's day.
I'm not saying the dates in there are accurate, I'm not even talking about that part. I'm talking about the general gist of that article, which is that this is probably not some new and dramatic change that just occurred... so we should stop panicking and jumping to conclusions.
I didn't really need that article to think rationally about this last official update. But I have to admit I paused once I read the date. You'd think at least they'd put the disclaimer of "though it would be in direct competition at the box office, if schedules hold, with James Bond and the Hunger Games."
The problem by saying read Jedi News. Is your giving those people that look up to you mods and believe every rumor. The free rains to say. Well the mods believe Jedi News. So they must be creditable. I know you mean well
OK, then let me make it very clear. ALL I am saying about that site or that article is that we should probably take the tone of that article to heart, acknowledge this may not be a new and dramatic change that just occurred... and either way, stop panicking and jumping to conclusions. I'm not endorsing any site, other than official news we get from LFL/Disney... which is ironic, given that the official announcement from the official SW site is what started all this.
Given he supposedly wrote a treatment for the whole trilogy, he already has worked on it.
And yes JJ will have an input, he's the director. The difference here is the suggestion he is doing more than simply adding stuff.
This is why I have hopes for EPISODE VII. I read somewhere that Abrams wasn't really a big Trek fan and depended upon (and did not questioned) Orci and Kurtzman's script and their knowledge of the Trek fandom for the movie. I really wish he had questioned those scripts. Thankfully, Abrams is a big SW fan, so chances are he is playing a bigger role in the development of the script.
The rest of the Hollywood media seem to think that the Arndt departure signals a MAJOR rewrite, with JJ doing a great deal of it.
Further support for that theory are departures from the firm release and first shooting months replaced with vague, general time periods.
I am also disappointed in the dearth of SW alums in the production team. Lots and lots of Abrams alum, but very few SW long-timers. Of course, he did the same dang thing to Trek, and look at the visual mess and intellectual lobotomization he made of THAT.
I haven't read it yet, but as far as I can tell that article only collects and speculates on information that others have been reporting.
Anyway it isn't unusual for a director to bring his own crew, even on Star Wars, but we still have Burtt and Williams, plus Roger Guyett, and although they didn't mention the concept artists in the press release, Doug Chiang and Iain McCaig on board too.
As for intellectual lobotomization, I'm not too worried about that as long as Orci and Kurtzman stay far, far away from the Star Wars galaxy.
Kasdan is going to have to work like a FIEND to keep some majesty and scope in the story. JJ is like a low-rent Michael Bay, all "sploshuns and pew pew pew" and damn the story and characters.
Yes, I know SW has plenty of explosions and "run and jump" but it also had solid characters involved in an epic story. A Lucasian Big Moment served some significant purpose. JJ just strings together what he feels are "big moments" with threadbare story and shallow characters and tries to cover it up with his "puzzle box" style.
The thing is, Episode VII doesn't need to be too big, or really much more than "sploshuns and pew pew pew" with a little bit of that emotion that we get from the binary sunset moment in ANH, because basically that's all that movie is anyway. Episode VII should essentially be a rollicking swashbuckling adventure story with a bit of heart that introduces the next set of characters and the general situation that will lead to greater conflicts and developments in the next two movies. And for that, I think J.J. could actually do quite well. I'm just sort of hoping he doesn't stick around beyond this one though.
But you also want it to make sense as well. JJ does not do that very well. There is also the case of emtional connections and no cop-outs which again JJ is known for. I remember MI3 and the cop-out where Tom Cruise wife is shot, then oh she's not.
There is also the worry that he will get his buddy Lindolf to help him with the script
For the record his 1st StarTrek film is energetic and entertaining but it does not make a lick of sense with characters acting out of character and plot holes galore which makes it an empty film, and is not holding up well over time. The worry/belief is that is the same with the ST.
Now compare that with ANH (Obi-wans death has power too) and ESB both hold up well to this day and with the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes which are brilliant and Vaders unmasking is packed full of emotion. Ardnt can do that kind of emotion but JJ can't.
@Kev Snowmane and
@fett 4 I agree with some of your assessments, but your blaming the wrong guy I think. The things you mention are script problems, and Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof are to blame for them. The reason I say this is because "Super 8" doesn't have these problems, and that's the one that JJ wrote on his own. Every time he works with "The Horsemen" his films have the problems that you mentioned, but "Super 8" is free of them, imo. I think JJ's problem is that he let's his buddies write his scripts for him. That's why I was so glad that Michael Arndt was involved in Star Wars, but so much for that.
Well in fairness, the horrible writing in those films falls more on the shoulders of Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman than Abrams, so as long as they aren't involved, I don't think we're in too much trouble there. I actually thought the pilots that Abrams wrote and directed for Alias and LOST were quite good and had a good emotional connection.
It's funny, I keep finding myself toggling between ripping Abrams apart and defending him. Well I try to maintain a sense of fairness and give credit where credit's due at least.
I should probably get around to seeing Super 8 soon. It might allay some of my nervousness about Abrams. I really do want to have faith in him, and when he only worked in TV I was a pretty big fan, but he lost me with M:I3 and ST09.
Edit: Sorry about the double post.
Super 8 is the one reason that I'm a fan of Abrams. I've never seen any of his TV stuff, and I think that "The Horsemen" seriously damaged his other films. His Trek films are "fun" but they're terribly written, imo. I recommend watching Super 8 immediately.
They both started off with good ideas in the pilots but as both series went along they both degenerated into mindless mess being dragged out to make a quick buck. I am sorry those guys are Abrams cronies and who work with him all the time. He would have had huge input in the writing.
I just find Super 8 to be totally hollow. I think it's a great homage to 70's/80's cinema (specifically Spielberg), and the acting from the kids is good... but for me, beyond the homage elements, there's nothing there. Watch Super 8 followed by Close Encounters and ET for a side by side comparison.
In the case of LOST I personally disagree, but the fact is that Abrams had already stepped away from both series when that change occurred.
Agree with you partially, his first trek probably fits the description albiet its not holding up well. The 2nd film is just bad per-say (I love it when Spock lectures Kirk on breaking the Prime Directive while Breaking the Prime Directive ) and since it's ripping off Wrath of Khan it's not even an original idea that's bad.
I haven't seen STID, but that sounds like a script problem to me...