Luke and Obiwan. A discussion of Heroes.

About a year ago AFI did their top Villains and Heroes list. Obiwan and Han were the only 2 from SW to make it on the list in the Hero category. I was shocked Luke Skywalker never made it. Han was a "gimme." He's the classic Rogue-turned-good guy.

My question is how is Obiwan a bigger hero than Luke? When it comes to character development I believe Luke story is better in terms of character development and I believe his acts of heroism outweigh Obiwan's. Luke destroyed the DS, faced DV and the Emperor helping turn Anakin back to the Jedi Order, rescued Leia from the DS, and rescued Han from Jabba.

There's 11 characteristic's to a Hero according to Literature which can also be applied to film.

1. JOURNEY- The Hero usually goes on a journey of some kind.
2. CONFRONTATION- The Hero is always met with resistance. Usually the Villain or adversary.
3. FINDING WHAT'S LOST- The objective of the journey.
4. CHANGING THE WORLD- Changing his environment for the the benefit of all in a positive way.
5. COURAGE/ABILITIES/TALENTS- In Luke and Obi's case using the FORCE.
6. SELFLESSNESS- Helping others without regard for one's personal gain.
7. ADVENTUROUS- Contradictory to the Jedi philosophy but evident in the SAGA.
8. EDURING HARDSHIPS- self explanatory
9. TRANSCEND THE COMMON- Does the Hero do something no normal man can. Is his feat God-like? In Luke and Obi's case, using the FORCE.
10. EMBODY SOCIETIES IDEALS AND DREAMS- Does the Hero hold the same views as society and the people he is trying to help or save?
11. ADMIRED FOR SELF AS WELL AS ACTIONS- self explanatory

So, is Obiwan a better example of a Hero than Luke as AFI suggested?

 

I think it's a matter of charisma.

 

I agree that Luke is the classic hero, fitting the bill as you've outlined here. I would say that the one thing that edged out Obi-Wan over Luke is his sacrifice -- he sacrificed his own life so the others could escape the Death Star. THAT'S a hero: killed being heroic.

(just my spin on it.)

 

Agreed.

There is no doubt Lucas patterned Luke Skywalker after the Classical hero. Even the rural upbringing where the young hero does not know of his noble ancestry.

But Obi-Wan is a different type of hero.

This is from dictionary.com:

1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.

2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.

Obi-Wan would certainly seem to fit either of the first 2 definitions, although less the first than the second.

Obi-Wan functions more as Teacher or Wise Old Man than Hero in the SW Saga.

As for the AFI, being a straight-out hero probably isn't very fashionable right now, and they'd probably be afraid of giving any recognition to Mark Hamill.

 

I think the AFI list is as much an indication of current values as anything else. The clear-cut hero types aren't as interesting to modern audiences as those who are somewhat morally ambiguous or otherwise flawed.


Now Han is chock-full of moral ambiguity, what with shooting first and all.

Obi-Wan we know as flawed because of his failure with Anakin and his casual nature with the truth when it comes to Luke.

 

I think Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker were great heroes. They were wise and skillful with using the Force. Obi-Wan is a little higher on the scale than Luke because he put his life on the line for the survival of the Rebellion and made it so Luke, Han, the wookie, the droids, and Leia could escape.

But under the same or similar circumstances, Luke would have done the same thing but lived since he's the hero of the OT.

 

Obi-Wan really did go through a lot of screwed up circumstances. His master was killed while he was still a Padawan, and immediatly after he was forced to become a teacher himself, even though his own Padawan was starting out much older then usual and would have a much harder time being trained. He spent 3 years fighting in a war, only to be betrayed by the very government he had been fighting to protect, and forced into exile. His Padawan also betrayed him at the last moment, and he was fored to strike him down. After spending 20 years in the desert, he was forced to train his former Padawan's son, only to have to sacrifice his own life shortly after. The fact that he kept to the Jedi values through all of that proves just how much of a hero he was.

 

OOPS, double post, see next one.

 

Poor Luke. He gets no credit anymore.

Things Luke did:

Blowed up the most powerful weapon in the GFFA.

Planned the rescue of Han Solo, it worked, took out alot of bad guys in the battle.

Confronted the two most powerful villains in the GFFA, one of which was his dad, and lived to tell the tale.

Things Luke had to put up with:

Lost the people who raised him to Stormtroopers.

Lost his spirit guide(Kenobi).

Found out that the guy who is the most feared villain in the gagalxy and at the top of the favorite villain in sci fi lists was his father.

Would have got the girl but it turned out to be his sister.

Poor Luke, he gets no credit anymore.

 

Well, as much as I can see Luke being a great hero, I cant take anything away from Obi Wan.

I mean, he wasnt presented with the opportunity to destroy a Death Star or anything like that. If he goes up against Anakin in Ep3 (Note: Its just accepted SW folklore, not a spoiler), then he's the resented ex-mentor that Anakin wants to destroy, not the blood relative that Anakin wants to save.

Despite the common need to see victory in order to glorify a hero, Bens heroicism is also defined by his defeats.

The man gives everything he has to protect the Republic and defeat the Sith, and yet watches the Republic crumble, and the Sith rise. He's taken on numerous foes for the glory of a Republic that will betray him. All his blood, sweat, and tears.

And in the end, he's forced to live in the desert for 20 years, completely alone. And eventually he finally sees a bright light on the horizon, he makes contact, starts to train him, starts to help the boy to save all that he has fought for, starts to make amends for the 'failure' that would have been plaguing him for 20 years. But in the end, he has to let himself die before he can see the fruits of his terrible labours.

Obi Wan was a great and tragic hero. I have no problems with rating him higher than Luke. Luke never suffered as much as Obi Wan, never dedicated himself as much as Obi Wan.

 

*claps for Dagsy* Thank you very much! Obi-Wan is possibly my favourite hero in cinema history, but he always seems to get relegated to the 'supporting cast' role in SW. This guy suffers more than anyone else in the saga. He spends 20 years chewing on the thought that the fall of the Jedi Order and the death of millions is partly his fault. He does his best to train Anakin, but the two are simply just horribly suited to one another. And that's a tremenous pressure to put on anyone who's 25, anyway. He screws up and is flawed but in the end his heroic quality is his commitment to giving all of himself to the work of the lightside. It's always been incredibly admirable to me, and I think once the PT is complete, his story will be the most dynamic and deep, if you will, of the saga.

Luke, on the otherhand, is a good guy. Sure, he matures from being naive to being more realistic about things, but he still has this boyish faith in good. In the end, it's admirable because it's what ends up helping him fight the Dark Side and bring Anakin back to the light. However, as Dagsy said, Luke doesn't suffer a fraction of what Obi-Wan has. He never has to face the fact that he's a flawed person and come out of that still commited to not giving up his fight. In the end, quite frankly, Luke is a very nice guy who is very boring, in my opinion. I like him more than I used to, but I can't say I was terribly sad to see him not on the list.

As for Han, well...duh

-sj loves kevin spacey