Lit Luke as Keeper of the Balance

Discussion in 'Literature' started by FatSmel, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    There has been a lot of speculation on this recently, that Luke will take over the "Father" role, and personally i think this would be a fantastic way to handle the character of Luke Skywalker.

    Given recent developments in the EU and lucasfilm products such as:
    Mortis in TCW, addition of Mortis to FOTJ, Sequel trilogy, Crucible speculation --> it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

    It has always been inevitable that he has to die one day, but almost unthinkable to most Star Wars fans, and this would be a way for him to 'transcend' the mortal realm, effectively 'dying', but still be around in a semi-corporeal fashion. Who knows, he could even come back one day to fight Abeloth were she to return.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  2. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    That never occurred to me, but now that you have mentioned it, I demand a story about Lord Skywalker battling Abeloth ten thousand years into the future.
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    You should all know my views by now!

    There has been speculation about Mortis giving Luke's father a corporeal form again, so long as he remains in residence there; in which case the Father, Son and Daughter 'family' could turn out to be a literal one.
  4. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I think the development of the ST will prevent the books from doing anything like this, unfortunately.
  5. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Does it have to be in a book? Perhaps in EP IX....?
  6. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    It could very well be, and this is precisely the reason the books will not do it, to avoid stepping on the toes of the new films.
  7. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    The opposite is actually the reason I could very easily see the new films doing it, as it'd forever prevent future books from giving Luke a trashy ending like a lot of EU people.
    Dawud786 likes this.
  8. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Apart from that I'd much prefer to see Luke die in combat or of old age (and be reunited with Mara and old friends) I think the main problem with the Luke goes father-Mortis theory is, that it's a plot that's very far from the ordinary movie goers idea of Star Wars. If you've seen CW, the Mortis is already a rather odd plot - but if you'e only seen the PT and OT - it's faaar out. Last time we saw Luke he was still a kid who'd got the wet behind his ears dried away almost physically. I think everyone expect him to have matured, turned to a serious zen-badass even - but there's still a long way from that to see him enter some metaphysical half-god level. What was special about Luke in the OT was his humanity - hell, the OT was buildt up with him as our/the audience's standin! To make him a balancer would take away that completely - unless you let him become soemthing messianic. It would also keep the focus on him and his generation instead of passing on the torch.

    What was special about him was also his amazing ability to have faith - that is what I'd like to see passed on! What can the average person watching the movie possibly get out of the balance being kept by some mystic Force trio on some monolith? But if the balance is passed on to be kept by us all - now, there's a story!
  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I dunno, this was a film with people lifting spoons with their thoughts, magic powers, bodies vanishing upon death, and ghosts.

    To a science-fiction audience back in the 80s, that was the same "WHAAA....?" compared to 90% of the sci-fi movies at the time where a simple laser gun was still special.

    If nothing else, I either see Luke dying and becoming a ghost, or the eternal protector of the galaxy Mortis--or-something-style. After all, he will require character development during the ST, and three films is a lot of space to fill. He went from clueless farm boy to galaxy saving space magic samurai warrior in the space of the OT, so it isn't outside the realm of feasibility for him to go from Jedi Master to godlike figure by the time the credits roll at the end of Episode 9.

    My understanding is the Nightsister arcs have been some of the more popular TCW episodes, and look at that: space magic.

    Star Wars' current problem, I suppose, is that it's got much bigger competition nowadays, as sci-fi is a much bigger industry than it was then. So it needs to maximise what makes it special compared to the robots in Battlestar and Mass Effect, or the futuristic stormtroopers in Halo and virtually everything else. And what Star Wars has that none of those do: is space magic.

    You can throw more Sith and Jedi at each other... but without something that will make the audience go "OMG!" that they totally didn't expect, all you'll achieve is more of the same, which is what I've often felt was the prequels failure, as mainstream audiences just didn't get that same "wow" factor that they did when Palpatine suddenly fired off bolts of lightning like a dark wizard.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
    instantdeath likes this.
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Valid points - and inded, the late 70ies was a very different time. Still, you can say the concept of the Force was a genious way to serve metahysics swift and easily and in a way that both religious people (no matter religion) and non-religious could 'eat'. Fill much more on it, and people will start to alienate. Also, it 's a very big difference between what kind of magic you offer. Telekinesis always works on screen, and ghosts never go ut of fashion. While super-action has developed today to a level that will make almost any trick a Jedi could pull look like a uninventive live copy of Kung Fu Panda 2 o_O I honestly don't think it's the way to go.

    But focusing on personal develpment might be! Probably not as much on Luke's development, but on how he can pass on what he's learned, and do it in a way that allows the new generation to not only learn from it but to take it in as their own knowledge that constantly grows.

    Ok, this reply was worded very badly - sorry - had a long day at work :pi hope you understand what I mean.
    Zorrixor and instantdeath like this.
  11. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Star Wars is definitely heavy on the space magic, compared to other sci-fi series. I still find it somewhat amazing that, even after nearly 150 novels and who knows how many comics and reference books, the Force still remains a very "mystical" force (no pun intended), in the same vein as the magic of Lord of the Rings, as opposed to some of the more detailed, almost "scientific" systems you get in many other fantasy series (look at the backlash midi-chlorians got, an attempt to "ground" the concept of the Force in some way, even if I'm of the opinion it did not do a good job at that). We know quite a bit about how the Force works, and we know there are various rules to it, but there's so much that's unknown about it; sure, because of this it does sometimes feel like characters pull feats out of the air when "calling on the Force", but by and large I think it works very well.

    Anyway, /random tangent.

    Very true. I definitely feel it was a good move in the OT to keep the Force very mysterious; at the very least, it helps the audience empathize a bit with Luke, who's just learning to control it. When Palpatine first used Force lightning, I imagine most in the audience thought something like, "what the hell is he doing?". But it doesn't come off as random.

    Though I did say Star Wars as a whole has done a good job of keeping the Force mystical and hard to define, I do feel like sometimes newer authors seem to follow a system. Character A used Force lightning. Character B blocked the lightning, and fired a Force push. If Karpyshyn is writing, Character A might try a Force stasis. Personally, I love it when characters do things we had no idea they could do; shows that the Force isn't just a static source of power.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 28, 2012
  12. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    Actually, I can kind of see Anakin becoming the new Father, with Luke and Leia becoming the embodiments of the light and dark sides of the Force
  13. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I must admit, if they do go with Mortis (or something like it) I imagine they'd simplify it in the movies to just something vague like "magical realm between life and death that needs a steward" and simply leave it at that, with it just needing the one warden/keeper/boatman/whatever.

    In other words, I imagine it'd just be treated vague and ambiguously, like the Force itself in the OT.

    Eg. Bad stuff happens. Anakin's ghost visits Luke. Tells him he must fulfil the Prophecy. Luke kills Evil Keeper. Must remain to maintain Balance. Galaxy saved. Credits roll.

    For a film, that's pretty much all I'd expect in terms of "explanation".
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
  14. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    But Anakin was the one born to fulfill the prophecy, so it should be him who is the new keeper.
  15. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    "Misread, the Prophecy may have been". Anakin's role could have been to bring the new Balance Keeper into being, in addition to eliminating the Sith.
    Zorrixor likes this.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Even if Lucas has said in some interview or another that the prophesy was fulfilled by Anakin killing Sidious- it's Lucas- given how often he changes his mind- the prophesy fulfilment is not necessarily set in stone.
  17. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Lucas's word doesn't even count anymore anyway. :p

    (If I wasn't on my iPad, this would call for a Lars image with "Your G-Canon is dead son, accept it.")
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yes - nothing about Mortis implies that it must always have a trio of inhabitants. I'm not even convinced that one so-called Chosen One sitting in Mortis is the way to preserve the balance, given that as Father is about to die in Ghosts of Mortis, he doesn't maintain his earlier belief that Anakin should stay, but instead sees Anakin going on to fulfill his destiny in normal space ( which we knew all along he had to do ). I'd think that if the key to stopping Palpatine-level threats in the normal galaxy was really the solution of having an Anakin or a Luke stay in Mortis, then the Father still would have wanted Anakin to stay even at the end.

    :p That's no excuse! I'm on my iPad:
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 28, 2012
  19. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I can't see any of those three embodying the dark side.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  20. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Clearly Anakin's Force Ghost will stand eternal vigil over Mortis in the form of three Persons: The Vader, the Christensen and the Holy Shaw.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Nov 28, 2012
  21. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    [face_laugh]
  22. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    To be honest, I don't think I'd like to see Luke in any sort of Keeper role. Doing so pushes him into demi-god status, and to me he is already too over-powered in the EU as it is. What appealed to me most about him in the movies was his humanity, someone who could be related to. He's hard to relate to now, he is so far out there and so inhuman that he doesn't even feel like a Luke.

    And I like what kataja said about Luke dying in combat or old age. I think having him in the Keeper role wouldn't grant him any sort of eternal rest in the Force, he'd always have his hands full and it would be something he couldn't really get away from. I'd rather him die and get to see Mara and old friends, then be forced into a never ending role.
    kataja likes this.
  23. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    Don't the LOTF books heavily imply that Anakin's failure to take the Father's place in Mortis is what caused all those decades of darkness and misery?
  24. Jedi_Glover Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    Or it could be Jacen as the embodiment of the dark side, Jaina as the light-side and then have Luke be the keeper.
  25. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    If Luke sat on his ass while Daala crowned herself Chief of State and the galaxy got shot to hell, how the heck's this guy gonna balance anything?

    Well I guess the Father was a complete idiot too, so that might make sense.