Lit Luke as Keeper of the Balance

Discussion in 'Literature' started by FatSmel, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    And the Father didn't seem to want Anakin to stay in Mortis at the end, implying that doing so would not be enough to fulfill his destiny.
  2. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I would be ok with Luke going to Mortis. I would prefer that over having him die in battle or something.
  3. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    that's exactly what I'm thinking.
    It would just be so difficult to handle the death of Luke Skywalker i think
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  4. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I agree @FatSmel
    I think it would be too easy to mess up his death. Just sent him off to gaurd the balance of the force.
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  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    how about if there was a situation where Luke became the Keeper for a moment, let's say he temporarily becomes the Father to stop Abeloth and after that he becomes one with the Force ?
  6. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Heh heh, MS, you want him to keep that balance, don't you? ;) I would be ok with it, if it was for a shorter time. But I cringe at the idea of him having to shoulder the responsability for all eternity. Luke's served long enough as it is. Let him have peace at some point. And as I don't think Jedi retire, uniting with the Force is his only hope. :p

    Why would it be difficult? It's not like this is RL? He might die in universe, but in GFFA spirits go on - it's not a question of religion or faith, it's in universe fact. As for us, he'd never die anyway. Fictional characters live forever. And just look at Obi-Wan.
  7. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I believe @FatSmel meant in the sense of it being difficult for any author to handle it in a way that wouldn't lead to death threats.
  8. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Yeah, that's pretty much my take. It's stupid, and it doesn't say anything about the real themes of Star Wars. In Star Wars, if you are a great Jedi, you grow old and die and remain in the Force so that you can occasionally nudge and guide the next generation to which you have passed on what you have learned. You don't become an ascended Force-god guarding the "balance of the Force." This sort of concretized, personified mythology just goes so badly with the natural-energy mysticism of the Star Wars films.
  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    While I'd have agreed once upon a time, the days of concrete, personified myths not being a part of Star Wars died when Lucas gave us Anakin the Virgin Birth. :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Dec 1, 2012
  10. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    It's one thing to be a prophesied hero who saves the day because the mystic energy field called the Force moves in vague and mysterious ways to cause your heroism to come about and restore "balance" by stopping a great evil. It's another thing for the balance of the Force to be controlled-personified by three jackasses in a space pyramid, and for you to become one of these Force-gods because . . . because. Who the hell knows.

    The OT does not really reconcile well with a cosmology where the Force goes to hell if Luke goes off to take a leak and some dumbass kid starts a fight with his sister.
  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Well, that's why I see no possibility of a film going with three angelic protectors, as it'd be unnecessary and narratively undramatic. You only need the one embodiment of the Force's will.

    And that's all it'd entail for a film: instead of Luke "just" ghosting, he'd be willingly returning to the Force to become its guardian protector. (Which from a certain POV is all Jedi ghosts embody anyway.)

    It's pretty much just the spiritual equivalent of the decision at the end of the third Pirates of the Carribean film or Mass Effect 3, just rather than merging with the Master AI of a robot or becoming the new Davy Jones to guide souls to the next life, it's instead Luke melding with the universal consciousness. "The Chosen One returning to where he came from", so to speak -- kinda like Neo at the end of Matrix as well.

    In Lucas's head (which usually forgets Leia exists), it's the sort of "finale" I can easily picture as being an end to the Chosen One's story, instead of the route the EU took of the endless line of Skywalkers saving the galaxy.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Dec 1, 2012
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  12. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    Do we know if Luke is dead or alive by the Legacy comics? I haven't gotten a chance to read them yet. Is there any kinda hint as to Luke's fate?
  13. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    In the Legacy comics, Luke appears as a Force ghost.
  14. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    In the Legacy comics, Luke appears as what looks like a Force ghost. Technically, we dont know. And in a situation where we don't know anythng about the fate of the EU, I don't think it's much to hang on to.

    Now, that's a very different thing. Instead of becoming the new Father, Luke would so to say cancel the need of the Mortis when he dies. That would be pretty cool [face_thinking]

    Then again, why didn't Anakin do the trick when he died?

    And what does balancing the Force mean anyway - I mean crap happens anyway, doesn't it? :p
  15. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    The beauty of how it works in the OT and even the PT is that you've got a time IU when we, the audience, are first seeing Star Wars where most people haven't seen a Jedi Knight for 20 years. The Force is a myth to Han Solo, even to Luke who is just a sort of blind believer. "Simple tricks and nonsense." We barely see what can be done. As the trilogy goes on we become increasingly initiated, along with Luke, into the things the Force can do. Our first taste, like Luke's, is simply precognition of blaster bolts. The most amazing thing we get is a disappearing Obi-Wan and a disembodied voice. Whoa! Then, in ESB, we see Luke pull his lightsaber to him.. and then we see the disembodied voice of Obi-Wan emerge as a visible spirit! Whoa! Then we go to Dagobah and see a whole lot more lifting, most voices, more ghost.... and a cave with visions, and the idea that there are visions of the future. We get treated to even more of that in ROTJ, and then out of freaking nowhere the Emperor starts blasting Luke with freaking lightning! Holy crap!

    In the PT we see all of that with a tad more umph and acrobatics. The Force gives you acrobatic wushu. Cool. We also get introduced to this idea that there is a cosmic balance that these movies were always about in the first place. TCW is kind of a testing ground for really throwing around the fantastical aspect of Star Wars. We get witches who can literally change beings from one state to another. And then we get the balance embodied in the Ones. They've made this possible in Star Wars. By the time Ep VI comes out, let alone IX, they could bring this to the screen without any problems. How many teenage boys will have been raised on TCW at that point? How many of their parents will have been on that journey with them? Or will at least have their kids explain it to them?

    Doing Mortis in the ST is not at all out of the question, IMO. And it makes sense as the next place to go to really make a compelling story that isn't a rehash of something the EU has already done, and it's yet another step for the OOU audiences' initiation into the depths of the Force. Each film, each trilogy, has essentially deepened our knowledge of the Force and how it underpins the entire Star Wars universe.
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  16. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Luke appearing as a Force-Ghose in legacy can mean anything. He could be dead, or maybe he is on mortis doing the job and still finding time to appear to Cade.

    ^that is the primary reason i think doing mortis or something similar is a very possible scenario for the sequel trilogy
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  17. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I could easily see Luke physically disappearing just like Obi-Wan and Yoda and yet materializing in a realm like Mortis. I see it as a kind of metaphysical isthmus between physical life and the amorphousness of the Netherworld of the Force. In Islamic terminology it would be called the barzakh, and in the specific terminology of Suhrawardi's Illuminationist(ishraqi) school of Islamic Philosophy it is called Hurqalya. It's non-physical by comparison to our world, but physical by comparison to the Netherworld.
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  18. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah, I definitely see Mortis as potentially the realm "between" life and the place after.

    That's what made me draw the Pirates of the Caribbean Davy Jones analogy, with the Keeper simply there to, metaphorically speaking, make sure the "ins" and "outs" are in check, and that nobody is overstaying their welcome, or too many returning before their time. Keeping creation and destruction in balance, basically.

    "What" that involves? Heck knows. Sparking the next Virgin Birth, striking those responsible down with lightning, unleashing the Apocalypse, who knows. And I wouldn't expect a film or Lucas in a post-film interview to ever even try to explain it. It's an EU obsession with explaining every tiny little thing, rather than leaving things up to the audience's own imagination, which is how I would expect some magical land of the netherworld inbetween to be treated in a film.

    And that's where I see the core difference between EU addicts and the casual film audience: most audiences aren't going to "think" about it, they're just going to care if it looks cool. "Yay! Luke's become God!" might seem silly from an EU perspective, but it sure wouldn't be the first popular film that went with that ending. One of the few major sci-fi films maybe, but then Star Wars always has done firsts when it comes to bleeding across different genres.

    Space wizards and ghosts aren't exactly common in the genre either, so a Force god's nothing unexpected. :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Dec 1, 2012
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Just from the name alone, it feels like it should have some connection to the netherworld.
  20. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I can see the allure about this, but I'm still not convinced. I'm very divided in my take of At World's End too. It was an ok way to wrap up a trilogy that had grown too big, but personally, I didn't go WOW. Besides, and this is a major argument - they did it already. Why would SW be copycat of recent blockbusters? SW draws inspiration from Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Tarzan, John Carter, pulp in general. We discuss if they'll set Luke as etrenal guardian as in PotC (and Matrix, was it?) , we discuss if they'll do a different AU timeline because they did it in ST, if they reboot the lot as in Marvel - the problem is, that this is Star Wars!!! It was an orginal vision. The OT has survived 35 years of movie history and still stands unshakable. Yeah, s the PT didn't live up to our hopes - then, they were pretty insane too. And maybe I'm continuing that insane tradition when I say this - but I think that George Lucas original idea (covering the PT, OT and ST) is both more simple and more brilliant - but above all, it's original. That's why I think (and hope) that we can't guess what's coming!

    And kriff how I hate that too - 'cos I WANT to know what's coming! :p
  21. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    It's very Leto Atreides isn't it? Haha. Kwizatz Haderach and all that. At least Luke wouldn't be becoming a giant worm though.
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Though he was once called Wormie... [face_thinking]
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  23. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    It's a sign. Clearly.
  24. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Ah, so that's what space slugs are.
  25. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    well if they continue that Mortis is actually real instead of Anakin just having a Force dream during the Clone Wars then sure I think Luke should get it temporary and then abolish the Ones. Perhaps as hinted in Apocalypse there is no need for them.

    any who considering what Luke has done in life I see him as becoming more than just a Force spirit in death
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Dec 1, 2012